Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Uses death as a shortcut
  • Manipulates luck
  • Abuses programming errors
Played on Mupen64 ReRecording v8
  • Video Plugin: Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6　(dont forget to check "Copy framebuffer to RDRAM"
  • Sound Plugin: Azimer's HLE Audio v0.56 WIP 1
  • Input Plugin: N-Rage`s Direct-Input8 V2 1.80a
  • RSP Plugin: Hacktarux/Azimer hle rsp plugin
The playback of this run comes to a speedy end by means of many glitches and using JPN rom. This rom can show the message quickly than others. They'll allow to complete this game within an hour. All of the glitches and some techniques I used are only existing one. I deeply appreciated people's great discoveries and researches.
Incidentally, this run was made as just amusing movie for Japanese video site. After the putting on view in the site, I was proposed trying to submit to TASVideos. So this run contains some joking factors, slow parts and going through old route. That's why It'll able to be clipped several minutes off the records in the run.
However, as a result of thinking, I decided to submit because I won't try again in the near future. Although opinions may vary on using JPN rom, I hope you like it.
The following glitches and techniques are mainly used:
  • Escape forest with water jumpslash ESS
  • Skip the owl with Deku Stick
  • Get Gold scale in childhood
  • Skip Door of Time
  • Steal Rod
  • Bottle Adventure
  • Skip Gerudo Bridge with Hookshot
  • Skip Ganon's Castle Trials with Bomb Hovering
  • SS to Ganon to keep Master Sword
adelikat: The ending input was way longer than necessary. I chopped it and replaced the movie file. This movie is sub 1 hour!
mmbossman: The two main goals of this site are to provide entertaining movies which are typically as fast as possible. However, sometimes one facet takes more precedence than the other. We have several well optimized movies which are less than entertaining to watch, and we have some that have known improvements but have been published because they are very entertaining. Usually these known improvements are small, however the improvements they provide to the previously published movie are usually small as well. Here, the improvement is clearly much more substantial.
So that leads us to two possible solutions: 1) accept this run for what it is, an entertaining run with some flaws that obsoletes one of the two runs we currently have which can be beat in real time, or 2) reject it due to known improvements and mildly suboptimal level of play. After reading through all the responses in the discussion thread, I feel it better benefits the site and our viewers to accept and publish this run. Do I wish this run integrated some more of the known tricks which have been pointed out? Sure I do. However I don't believe that it is a wise decision to await a "perfect" run which may never come, while in the mean time continuing to have a run published which is worse than a real time run. So I am accepting this submission.
This acceptance will not result in a change of policy regarding (U) ROMs being preferable to (J) ROMs. Any future improvements should use the (U) ROM, and any resulting time lost due to slower text screens will not be used to penalize that submission, just as any time gained from faster text screens was not factored into the judging decision for this run.
Aktan: Processing... (taking forever to audio sync it)
EZGames69: For anyone planning on encoding this in the future. Make sure you use the same plugins that are listed, especially the input plugin as using the wrong one can cause a desync. And also make sure "Raw Data" is checked in the plugin settings for the input plugin. and finally for the RSP plugin, make sure you select "set to process alists inside the rsp". That should be all.

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Posted: 3/16/2010 9:11 PM
(Edited: 3/16/2010 9:16 PM)
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
petrie911 wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But just some food for thought: If we except this run the default language for all future OoT runs will become japanese, since the rules say we can't change languages unless for a good reason and we couldn't really time the difference. So swordless and co. will most likely TAS this game in japanese. If you don't have a problem with that accept this game. But don't come whining when the new OoT TAS is in japanese in half a year.
The Rules wrote:
◦In addition, English text is preferred. Thus the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version.
The default language is always English. This run being accepted does not change that.
Da Rules wrote:
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Maybe you should read all of the rules next time, petrie. ;) If we switch to J now we stay there, since U is obviously inferior. And this rule obviously overwrites the english is the prefered language rule.
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:15 PM
Quote
petrie911
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Slowking wrote:
petrie911 wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But just some food for thought: If we except this run the default language for all future OoT runs will become japanese, since the rules say we can't change languages unless for a good reason and we couldn't really time the difference. So swordless and co. will most likely TAS this game in japanese. If you don't have a problem with that accept this game. But don't come whining when the new OoT TAS is in japanese in half a year.
The Rules wrote:
◦In addition, English text is preferred. Thus the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version.
The default language is always English. This run being accepted does not change that.
Da Rules wrote:
If there already is a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new ROM is obviously better, and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie.
Maybe you should read all of the rules next time, petrie. ;)
If you'll read the part of the rules I quoted, you'll notice that English text qualifies as "obviously better".
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:19 PM
(Edited: 3/16/2010 9:20 PM)
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Ah come on petrie. We both know that the consistency-rule is regarded higher than the english-rule. Because the english rule states only that english is prefered, but the consistency rule says that a new run must use the rom of the previous run, unless the new rom is obviously better. But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese, so case closed. The japanese rom becomes the new default.
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:20 PM
Quote
Baxter
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
I enjoyed watching this movie... I also voted yes, for the same reasons I stated at the Mega Man 4 submission. I can understand why the people involved with OoT TASing don't really like this submission, I personally also wouldn't be jumping for joy if someone submitted a suboptimal TAS of a game I was working on. Fact however is that is has been submitted, and that it is of a good (be it improvable) quality, and that it would take months at the very least for an improvement to be submitted. Since the Mega Man 4 submission, cases like these are specifically mentioned in the rules. (Because of the huge time difference, the JPN version doesn't really matter, a more optimized TAS, even if the final time is longer in the (U) version, can obviously obsolete it.)
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:26 PM
Quote
petrie911
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Slowking wrote:
Ah come on petrie. We both know that the consistency-rule is regarded higher than the english-rule. Because the english rule states only that english is prefered, but the consistency rule says that a new run must use the rom of the previous run, unless the new rom is obviously better. But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese, so case closed. The japanese rom becomes the new default.
Except, as noted, English language is always considered superior to Japanese language. What, do you think when they made that rule they weren't aware that Japanese text is faster? That's the only argument you can sustain that the Japanese version is superior, and that rule is pretty much there to specifically counter that argument. And, uh, when has the consistency rule ever been regarded higher than the English rule?
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:26 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Personally I have never liked "rules nazism", and I really think that exceptions to the basic rules and quality standards can be made in a case-by-case basis. I do understand, however, the concerns about this setting unwanted precedents. ("Hey, you accepted that OoT run which had obvious flaws and significant known improvements, why are you rejecting my run of game X, which has significantly less flaws? That's unfair and hypocrisy.") If what people have written in this thread is true, it seems that while this run is an enormous improvement to the currently published one, it has obvious flaws and clear suboptimalities which in almost any other case would be grounds for rejection because it doesn't meet the minimum quality standards of the site. So I suppose there are two possible points of view: 1) This is an absolutely huge (and probably record-making, at least in absolute time) improvement on an existing publication, making it significantly better, and hence it deserves publication. The obvious flaws and suboptimalities can be penalized by giving it a low technical rating (which is what that rating is for, after all). 2) The run does not meet the current minimum quality requirements of publication, and publishing it just because it's OoT would set an unwanted precedent which may cause protest and animosity in the future. Pick your choice.
Sonikkustar wrote:
Besides, No movie can ever be perfect.
There's a difference between "is not perfect" and "has obvious flaws and significant suboptimalities".
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:27 PM
(Edited: 3/16/2010 9:32 PM)
Quote
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Slowking wrote:
But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese[...]
Please elaborate - it's not at all obvious to me other than the difference in text speed, which is a negligible (at best) improvement timewise. EDIT: Since it seems to have gone un-noticed, I'm going to draw attention to MrGrunz's list of flaws again:
MrGrunz wrote:
- first off, the author used a bad route. he also didn't include some of the new tricks. he should have skipped the hookshot and got magic bean as child instead via my zora's river early trick. going to lake hylia to get a bottle is also not the best option for a bottle. - bad luck manipulation overall. he could have saved a shitload of time at the rupee route. then the peahat superslide was also really suboptimal executed. he even used normal walking in this place - many bad angles - even some unoptimized sidehops - should have gotten more bomb drops in the adult route, so he could have add some crazy stuff like my new "semi-Hyper Endless Superslide" trick or just some more superslides
Can you give a time estimate for how much time could be saved with each of these, and perhaps some specific examples on the "bad angles" and "sidehops" points? Also, I will point out that it seems to be those people that are most familiar with the game that are picking out flaws of this nature. I'd raise the question of how obvious these are to the average audience; if they are highly visible, I question whether the quality of this is sufficient to meet the standard of publishability. The MM4 case was one where that threshold was obviously met, and it's not 100% clear to me yet that that's the case here.
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:32 PM
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
petrie911 wrote:
Except, as noted, English language is always considered superior to Japanese language. What, do you think when they made that rule they weren't aware that Japanese text is faster? That's the only argument you can sustain that the Japanese version is superior, and that rule is pretty much there to specifically counter that argument. And, uh, when has the consistency rule ever been regarded higher than the English rule?
You don't have to be a lawyer to identify it in the wording. The english rule tells you to use english unless there is a reason ot to. The reason not to is given in the consistency rule since it states that you have to use the same rom unless the rom you want to use is obviously better. And you know that Im right, you are a native english speaker, so you should have no trouble understanding it. You just don't like what the rules say.
sgrunt wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese[...]
Please elaborate - it's not at all obvious to me other than the difference in text speed, which is a negligible (at best) improvement timewise.
5 minutes is a huge improvement for a TAS and certainly not negligible. And yes it makes the japanese rom clearly superior. The rules state that a faster start screen isn't enough to make a rom superior to another, but 5 minutes of text certainly are.
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:47 PM
Quote
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Slowking wrote:
sgrunt wrote:
Slowking wrote:
But the english rom is obviously inferior to the japanese[...]
Please elaborate - it's not at all obvious to me other than the difference in text speed, which is a negligible (at best) improvement timewise.
5 minutes is a huge improvement for a TAS and certainly not negligible. And yes it makes the japanese rom clearly superior. The rules state that a faster start screen isn't enough to make a rom superior to another, but 5 minutes of text certainly are.
Where did this five minutes figure come from? Last I checked, nobody was sure how much time was saved as a result of the shorter length of text boxes, and five minutes seems like an overestimate.
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:48 PM
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
alec timed/estimated it. But it doesn't really matter. Even one minute would make the J rom superior. And you can't go from a superior rom back to a worse ro just because you don't like the language. So they the rules. ;)
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:54 PM
Quote
MrGrunz
Experienced player (603)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
sgrunt wrote:
Since it seems to have gone un-noticed, I'm going to draw attention to MrGrunz's list of flaws again:
MrGrunz wrote:
- first off, the author used a bad route. he also didn't include some of the new tricks. he should have skipped the hookshot and got magic bean as child instead via my zora's river early trick. going to lake hylia to get a bottle is also not the best option for a bottle. - bad luck manipulation overall. he could have saved a shitload of time at the rupee route. then the peahat superslide was also really suboptimal executed. he even used normal walking in this place - many bad angles - even some unoptimized sidehops - should have gotten more bomb drops in the adult route, so he could have add some crazy stuff like my new "semi-Hyper Endless Superslide" trick or just some more superslides
Can you give a time estimate for how much time could be saved with each of these, and perhaps some specific examples on the "bad angles" and "sidehops" points? Also, I will point out that it seems to be those people that are most familiar with the game that are picking out flaws of this nature. I'd raise the question of how obvious these are to the average audience; if they are highly visible, I question whether the quality of this is sufficient to meet the standard of publishability. The MM4 case was one where that threshold was obviously met, and it's not 100% clear to me yet that that's the case here.
hmm, I'd say we could save at least 4-5 minutes of this TAS. By using the optional child route we can save alone 1-2 minutes. hookshot skip makes up for another 1,5 minutes and optimizing combined with better bomb uses in the adult route can save another minute ;) well, the major problem with noticing it is that some people didn't even know of the tricks like RBA used in this TAS. All people in the zelda irc wether TASer or not noticed most of the improvements, that could have been made, so let's say the problem with not noticing all that stuff is having not enough experience with the tricks we have nowadays. most people are not up to date when it comes to this ;) of course all those minor improvements only occur to experienced TASers. but just one example about how unoptimized this TAS is: the rupee route (obtaining sword and shield) of the all temples TAS I started back in august is already 8 seconds quicker than the one of this TAS, which is huge!
Posted: 3/16/2010 9:56 PM
Quote
petrie911
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635
Slowking wrote:
You don't have to be a lawyer to identify it in the wording. The english rule tells you to use english unless there is a reason ot to. The reason not to is given in the consistency rule since it states that you have to use the same rom unless the rom you want to use is obviously better. And you know that Im right, you are a native english speaker, so you should have no trouble understanding it. You just don't like what the rules say.
I'm sorry, but what part of "the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version." does not mean the English ROM is obviously better? Certainly the presence of English text is obvious, and the rules explicitly say it is better. EDIT: Just to be sure, Grunz, did your rupee route get the same number of rupees as his?
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:02 PM
Quote
blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
You know, how would somebody who never played OoT before feel after watching this movie? Unless they can understand Japanese, they would have almost no clue what the game is about other than a green-garbed guy hopping around everywhere. I believe that is the reason for requiring the (U) ROM unless (J) or (E) is obviously better. Faster text is not a good excuse to choose a J ROM over U. The only legitimate reason to choose a J ROM is glitch exploitation or some other large cut in time, other than those caused by Japanese text being quicker to skip through. At least, that is how I interpreted the rules, and from my knowledge, that follows the precedence set by judging in the past. Now, this does not mean I don't think this run should not be published. I am not sure myself, partly because I have not watched it yet (and therefore have not voted). I will await for an encode.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:08 PM
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
petrie911 wrote:
I'm sorry, but what part of "the use of Japanese text in the movie would be a negative aspect towards a switch to the J version." does not mean the English ROM is obviously better? Certainly the presence of English text is obvious, and the rules explicitly say it is better.
Yeah a switch to the japanese version. But if the last run was already the japanese version this isn't the case and the consistency rule kicks in. Since it would screw up timing and crap and you would switch to a worse version. And no only enlish alone doesn't make a rom supirior, it's just that the english rom is prefered if you do a new gae. But if the game is already in japanese it stays this way. And the rules state that very learly. It's just that you don't like it. Like I said before. I would really like an example where a game was switched from japanese to english without the english version having a hughe glitch the japnase one doesn't. Can you bring me one?
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:13 PM
Quote
DarkKobold
Skilled player (1651)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
Slowking wrote:
I would really like an example where a game was switched from japanese to english without the english version having a hughe glitch the japnase one doesn't. Can you bring me one?
Can you find any examples of English being switched to Japanese?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:20 PM
Quote
blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
DarkKobold wrote:
Slowking wrote:
I would really like an example where a game was switched from japanese to english without the english version having a hughe glitch the japnase one doesn't. Can you bring me one?
Can you find any examples of English being switched to Japanese?
This But that was because the Japanese version allowed part of the glitched up stuff while the US version did not. Perfectly legitimate.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:20 PM
Quote
Miles
Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 94
Slowking: I assure you that no one will care when a future improvement switches back to the English version. Anyway, I haven't watched the run yet, as I'm waiting for an encode.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:26 PM
(Edited: 3/16/2010 10:28 PM)
Quote
Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Miles wrote:
Slowking: I assure you that no one will care when a future improvement switches back to the English version.
But I assure you they won't. ;) If they are allowed to use a version that is faster they will. And if this gets published they will be allowed to. That is all I was saying: If this gets published prepre yourself for future runs of OoT also to be in japanese.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:27 PM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
The Castlevania 3 runs also use the Japanese version because it has better music, though I don't know if there was ever a published English run.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:31 PM
(Edited: 3/16/2010 10:32 PM)
Quote
Miles
Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 94
Slowking wrote:
That is all I was saying: If this gets published prepre yourself for future runs of OoT also to be in japanese.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, everyone interested in improving the run prefers the English version; why would this run suddenly make them switch to Japanese?
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:31 PM
Quote
sgrunt
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Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Time saved in text isn't considered a particularly useful improvement; it is the in-game time that we care the most about. (To be fair, this has historically been a point of contention on the site, but not for several years.) Considering our site audience, the accessibility of English text would be more entertaining (and hence more important) than time saved in text from a Japanese version. If there are more compelling reasons to use the Japanese version (such as a glitch which only exists there, for example), then that is a strong argument for it to be used, but "Japanese text saves time" is not an argument which has held up for quite some time.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:36 PM
Quote
SwordlessLink
Experienced player (504)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Slowi is absolutely right. If this run gets published, I'll consider the J ROM to be green-lighted for all future runs, and it will be used in the improvement.
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:37 PM
Quote
adelikat
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
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TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I guess I should clear up these points: 1) This movie will not be rejected due to using the J ROM (that isn't to say it won't be rejected but that it will not be a factor) 2) If published a new run is still preferred to be a U ROM choice. Text has nothing to do with the improvements. Thus a U ROM can be a slower time than this provided that it is proven to be as a result of the text (which is on the author to prove). 3) A publication will not set a precedent for a J ROM for this movie or any other. Rather be an exception to the rule due to extreme circumstances. These issues are non-debatable. Also, people, please use some common sense.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 3/16/2010 11:41 PM
Quote
ghostrr
Joined: 1/22/2007
Posts: 5
Hello everyone, In high periods of traffic, video quality in nicovideo.jp gets reduced for common users (it's called economic mode) and, sometimes, videos go super fast and skip everything after some point The encoder of the run saw that happening and uploaded another video that doesn't skip things anymore during economic mode: http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm10040622 Hope it helped who's trying to watch it
Posted: 3/16/2010 11:45 PM
Quote
Satoryu
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272
DarkKobold wrote:
Can you find any examples of English being switched to Japanese?
http://tasvideos.org/698M.html
Slowking wrote:
I would really like an example where a game was switched from japanese to english without the english version having a hughe glitch the japnase one doesn't. Can you bring me one?
http://tasvideos.org/809M.html I vote Yes. I'm in the camp that believes that the staggering improvement outweighs the text differences and the possible improvements. What exactly is wrong with having this movie up while the new movie is still in progress? Cause I can't find a reason other than pride.
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