Would it be aloud if the run starts with a save-file so it can be used to Skip the intro cut-scene (which is 10 minutes long)
Using a save-file simply to skip the intro cut-scene is not normally an acceptable reason to use the save-file. Save-file runs are normally only reserved for where there is a new mode of gameplay, either difficulty or a new map, and so I would say using a save-file in this case would be a mistake.
Joined: 10/12/2011
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Location: The land down under.
goofydylan8 wrote:
Using a save-file simply to skip the intro cut-scene is not normally an acceptable reason to use the save-file. Save-file runs are normally only reserved for where there is a new mode of gameplay, either difficulty or a new map, and so I would say using a save-file in this case would be a mistake.
So you're saying to take the 10 minutes of an unskippable cut-scene.
Edit: I'm a Dumb-ass it's 1 minute
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
So you're saying to take the 10 minutes of an unskippable cut-scene.
I am saying that while 10 minutes of unskippable cut-scene may not be the most entertaining thing to watch you will have a better chance of publication if you do not use a starting from SRAM.
I can't find any precedent at the moment of a run being rejected but the Movie Rules state basically what I said.
It's worth checking to see what happens if you reset during the intro cutscene. Many games let you skip their intro cutscene that way. (Probably it won't work, but it'll save a lot of trouble if it does!)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6444
Location: The land down under.
ais523 wrote:
It's worth checking to see what happens if you reset during the intro cutscene. Many games let you skip their intro cutscene that way. (Probably it won't work, but it'll save a lot of trouble if it does!)
Sadly I already attempted this awhile back, it doesn't work.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
It's worth checking to see what happens if you reset during the intro cutscene. Many games let you skip their intro cutscene that way. (Probably it won't work, but it'll save a lot of trouble if it does!)
It saves the game towards the end of the cs. It would be faster if we could hard reset, but the only way dolphin can reset is via home menu, which is locked for 5 seconds after the save is made, and also takes an extra second or so to do.
Super Metroid has a 3 minute unskippable cut scene at the beginning. It's fine.
THATS WHY I RATED ALL THE SM RUNS 0/0.
well actually I've never seen an SM run in full, because I don't have an interest in Metroid games except the first.Spikestuff wrote:
goofydylan8 wrote:
Using a save-file simply to skip the intro cut-scene is not normally an acceptable reason to use the save-file. Save-file runs are normally only reserved for where there is a new mode of gameplay, either difficulty or a new map, and so I would say using a save-file in this case would be a mistake.
So you're saying to take the 10 minutes of an unskippable cut-scene.
Yeah, man, I agree! I also think we should use saves that are at the last boss, because, you know, the audience doesn't like to wait. What an absurd thought.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESqu5Fx77Ag&feature=g-u-u
At about 48 seconds into this video Ewaller got a glitch to happen that broke the blocks below Mario in 1-2, seemingly without a groundpound. Currently the both of us can replicate it, but we don't know what the glitch is really doing. Our setup requires us to stop, in a specific place, before jumping and letting go of duck at the same time.
I guess the major questions we have are: Does positioning under the blocks matter? Currently we need half a block half air. Does timing matter? Do we need to release duck and jump at the same time, or is there something else? And most importantly can this be done at full speed(As in, no stopping like we currently need to)?
We both really just want to know how to do it, but knowing more about it wouldn't hurt. If it can be done at full speed I'm sure Rog can use it in the TAS too.
Does it need to be done exactly halfway between having a block over your head and not having a block over your head? Or can it be done anywhere where there's a block directly above and beneath you?
Thanks :)
Does the positioning of the blocks above/below you matter at all?
Also thank you for the prompt reply, looks like ewaller and myself have something "fun" to look into.
Not sure if you've gone this far into testing, but we recently (a couple weeks back) found that 5-3 is about 3 seconds faster then 5-2, I'm not sure if TAS magic could change that, but that's a relatively new thing we found that changes any%.
Also a few other things you pointed out that I tested: The intro reset for an RTA does not appear to save time, maybe with a better Wii it would, but when I tested it I could only get it to be a couple of seconds slower then just waiting. Another thing is the level starts, We cannot do the ~3 second level intro that the TAS has for normal levels, only for cannon/mushroom houses/overworld monsters. I think this has to do with processing power, but neither ewaller nor I could get the intro shorter for regular levels, regardless thanks for that my any% currently can save time with the piranha plant and 5-Cannon.
Does the positioning of the blocks above/below you matter at all?
I would assume that is why there is only 1 frame you can do it on.
Not sure if you've gone this far into testing
I got a few desyncs when redoing 1-1, and pretty much stopped caring. When i started testing and working on tasing i thought it was desync free.
Also a few other things you pointed out that I tested: The intro reset for an RTA does not appear to save time, maybe with a better Wii it would, but when I tested it I could only get it to be a couple of seconds slower then just waiting.
Are you sure you reset at the right time?
Another thing is the level starts, We cannot do the ~3 second level intro that the TAS has for normal levels, only for cannon/mushroom houses/overworld monsters. I think this has to do with processing power, but neither ewaller nor I could get the intro shorter for regular levels, regardless thanks for that my any% currently can save time with the piranha plant and 5-Cannon.
Presumably it's because it's still loading. It probably allows you to dismiss the screen after a certain frame, but only if it's done loading what it needs to. You could probably test this by running the game from an hdd. I don't have access to a wii anymore, or i'd just try that myself.
That's the frame i jumped on.
For the above/below positioning I asked because we had a specific setup, but from your picture it looks like it doesn't matter, as long as you have one above you and time it right you'll break what's below you. This is pretty sweet, last question though, when doing it at full speed did you hit a brick that you didn't break on the way down? Losing momentum there would suck, probably still be faster, but I'm curious.
Sucks about the desync, hopefully they fix it soon, I'd like to see a TAS of this game mostly because I'm sure my time could be improved vastly. On the plus side maybe I will end up beating the TAS to a few times while you guys have desync problems :D
I did several tests with the intro skip, sadly the earliest I could get the autosave was right when the screen turns black after they all run off the screen, resetting and getting back into the game ended up taking a little longer then waiting for me. The wii I tested this on though is extremely old I got it right after the Wii was released, so maybe a newer one would load everything faster? Idk if it would be extreme enough to do so.
That's about what we thought with the level loads, the shorter levels have less to load so it completes before the intro finishes, regular stages have more to load so we can't do anything until it finishes, maybe ewaller can test the hdd thing, I sure cant :\
Like I said earlier, based on the picture it looks like the over/under positioning doesn't matter, as long as there is a block above and below the trick will work, I'll have to put off any% runs for a bit as I try to get familiar with the timing here, lots of new little things to work on for me, we'll try to remember to post our finds here for you so that the any% run can be done when you guys can get the problems to stop :D
This is pretty sweet last question though, when doing it at full speed did you hit a brick that you didn't break on the way down? Losing momentum there would suck, probably still be faster, but I'm curious.
Yes i did, but i also did when doing it slower.
Sucks about the desync, hopefully they fix it soon, I'd like to see a TAS of this game mostly because I'm sure my time could be improved vastly. On the plus side maybe I will end up beating the TAS to a few times while you guys have desync problems :D
It's not going to get fixed. The only reason wiimote recording works at all is because some guy came out of nowhere with a commit description of "test" that fixed a bunch of things. He hasn't committed anything in 3 months, and no one else cares at all about dolphin tasing.
I did several tests with the intro skip, sadly the earliest I could get the autosave was right when the screen turns black after they all run off the screen, resetting and getting back into the game ended up taking a little longer then waiting for me. The wii I tested this on though is extremely old I got it right after the Wii was released, so maybe a newer one would load everything faster? Idk if it would be extreme enough to do so.
It should save a second or two before that.
Like I said earlier, based on the picture it looks like the over/under positioning doesn't matter, as long as there is a block above and below the trick will work,
I'll try it some more later. Any other ideas of what could cause it to be a 1 frame trick, if not the position?
when you guys can get the problems to stop :D
The desyncs weren't that bad tbh, i just didn't really feel like dealing with any. Maybe i'll try going back to it soon.
Hmmm I'm guessing the 4th picture is where you ended up jumping? If that's the case then our setup is right... We had it halfway between being Mario under the block and under air and the 4th picture shows that. Can the trick be done with Mario completely under a brick? Or is it a requirement to have him half under the brick half under air?
I guess I need to know those, currently if I need to get Mario halfway under a brick + air, then do a 1 frame trick it just isn't feasible to do in a full run non TAS at the moment. My run has ~ 15-20 seconds of mistakes I KNOW I can fix, I don't need a 1 frame trick on the level that already kills most of my runs.
I guess something we should know is how much time does this potentially save? Does it save any or are we just kidding ourselves? Could you put up with the desync enough to get a 1-2 with the trick down rog?
The earliest I got for the intro was right when the black screen started, even after everyone was off screen it didn't save right away, I think I timed it and ended up with a large enough time delay that it wasn't worth it, but I forget the actual time results, I may end up looking into it, but for now I'm sticking with what I remember on that front, if ewaller wants he can look into it though.
Those pictures are all the frame i jumped and let go of down on. The slower you are moving the later you need to jump.
I'd guess it saves maybe half a second, but not sure without timing it, which i'm not doing now. I definitely wouldn't bother with it for real time. 1 frame tricks (even better, you have to press one button, and let go of another on one frame) that barely save time are pretty silly.
Ahh, no rush on timing it, unless we get a strong setup or at least find out if we aren't required to place Mario in a specific location under the bricks I wont bother, I'd like to think it would save a second or two, but if you can't break 2 bricks consistently, or if you clip a ledge and end up losing momentum anyway then I guess it wouldn't save much time, if any.
Post in this thread if you find anything, I tend to check every once in awhile. Thanks for all your help with this trick, if ewaller or myself find anything interesting we'll try to post it here, or we'll remember the next time we need help like this.
I've never broken less than 2 bricks, in 10 tries or so.
The position definitely needs to be precise. It's always 1 frame that you can do it on, unless you're barely moving (would it even be faster to slow down that much?) and the specific frame varies by how fast you're moving.
You can avoid hitting the next brick by holding left after breaking the two bricks. Obviously you lose some speed doing that, but it still looks like the best thing to do.
So I'm back Rog, was wondering if you could figure something out, if not we'll just stick with RNG and I have the worst luck.
I was doing some warpless attempts today and EVERY time I reached the goomba it used the same pattern to hit me. This happened in all 10 attempts that got past the tower. Since it was more then a few times, and I know I mostly follow the same pattern (Hell, I struggle to do 1-3 without a hit without using my triple jumps) for all levels I wanted to know, can Overworld Monsters in this game be manipulated?
Its not a shock to me in races/runs to get hit by overworld monsters and I just roll with it currently, there is a lot of time to save in my best warpless run without resorting to skipping the 2 overworld monsters that we know are possible. But the same pattern 10 times is a little ridiculous and statistically if it was RNG I should've gotten a goomba skip at least once in 10 tries, let alone a different pattern.
I guess we're wondering if its possible to manipulate overworld enemy behavior? If it is then how? Is it based on points, timer, frames? maybe stages (all my runs went to the star house)?
This would be nice to know, if we could cut out a little bit of randomness I'm sure manipulating world 4's would be possible, and world 1's wouldn't be far-fetched either. If by some miracle the first plant zone in world 5 can be avoided without a death that would save ~30 seconds in an any%, though I still think that one is unavoidable, it would require at least 1 head bob out of the plant and I think you need to beat the tower or the castle to get them to start that action.
If you can't get the rom to work long enough we understand, right now we're taking it as really amazing RNG that I got the same pattern, ewaller's guess was timer, and I think it's point total, but neither of us can really test out EVERY possibility and find out if we are right or wrong, if we can narrow it down that'd be nice, or if its truly random and my luck is just that bad it'd be nice to know.
I'll try a few things when i've got some time. No promises though.
Which goomba is it? What levels did you do and in which order? What was your timer/points on the level before (were they always the same?)? Do you have a video of any of these attempts?
Goomba is the only World 1 Overworld Monster.
The pattern I replicated was after 1-T he'd start in the bottom right and move left, to the bottom left corner (Right next to the 1-4 path). Then after I beat 1-4 he'd go to the top left corner, and when Mario stepped into the overworld zone he'd jump right back.
The stages I visited were 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 1-Star House, 1-Tower, 1-4, Monster Zone.
I don't remember scores/times on a run-by-run basis but I can give you averages, nor do I have a video, I deleted my last run to get an IL run for a guide.
1-1: 453/454 | 4000/8000 flag average. Typically I end under 10k but if I hit 8k its around 15k points.
1-2: 454 | 100 flag average. Typically 75k points. <- last stage I generally know my ending stage points.
1-3: 450/451 | 100 flag average.0
Star House: I've been using the 3 second entrance since this stage is short enough for the Wii to fully load, runs before today didn't generally use it.
1-T: 539 | Tower fight.
1-4: Lately my average has been 414 with 100 point flag, one run was 413 with 100 point flag though.
I'm sorry I can't remember points at least on average, but I generally check on the timer to compare to my best time.
I wish I could show you videos, but the 1:40 I have on youtube shows my average 1-1, 1-2, 1-T, and 1-4; Today I didn't use Yoshi as a safety, he's only a second or two slower, idk if that changes anything.
Thats all the information I have on me, if I get an average run soon that has the same thing I'll show you.
No matter whether I somehow get this same streak of luck or not the big questions that would be nice to be answered are: Is it possible to manipulate the behavior of overworld monsters? If so what is it based on?
If it turns out we can manipulate them I guess ewaller and myself need to work out what we need, but the big thing we need is the trigger. The only big one I'd like you to work out is world 5's first Plant, is it possible to get past it in an any% run without a death that would be amazing, but I've never even seen anything that would make me think it's possible to get past it without manipulating the vines with a death.
That's the frame i jumped on.
