I decided to make a new thread instead of posting here, because that one was somewhat unrelated.
Anyway, since the game is once again broken apart by glitches, it appears that we are looking at ~sub-25 minute TAS possibilities. The almighty groobo made a test run here, and it seems to me that most of his route/glitching/soul collecting strategies are quite optimal. Any thoughts?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Are you doing to TAS it, moozooh?
EDIT: Some thoughts:
klmz wrote:
My idea for J/Y/A mode runs:
Get the Soma's bad ending as fast as possible with whatever glitches, and then start the team run.
So Soma is punished for corrupting the game, while we don't need to start from a predefined SRAM that would be hard to verify and is currently impossible.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
This run is not bad, but near all that is before segment 12 is basicly satoryu run, the glitching with black panther ect... was nice, sadly whe cant see what happen on map exactly :p
I guess a real tas will be under 20 min rather than 25min, well, theres a large portion of his run that is done without backdashing at all but just slowly walking
yeah, i don't think much can be improved from groobo's run, aside from more optimized movement and BDCing. maybe small things like getting more Axe Armor souls so it beefs up the attack to lvl2+. there might be a rare drop somewhere that might help out, too.
klmz: unfortunately, to get the bad ending, you'd have to do the same exact stuff the normal run does up until The Pinnacle, more than half of the run. that's the first place where you can encounter a Succubus, and it's also where the Dario/Aguni fight is. so you can't glitch your way to the fight.
No, but after talking about it on IRC, neither Atma nor I had any clear idea on how to exactly to glitch the game after getting succubus soul. I only discovered groobo's run today, and it seems Atma hasn't seen it yet.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
yeah, i don't think much can be improved from groobo's run, aside from more optimized movement and BDCing.
I haven't seen the whole thing, but you'd be surprised at how much faster it can be. ingame time of less than 1:20 after beating the flying armor, and that's not including the fact that that can be improved even more.
maybe small things like getting more Axe Armor souls so it beefs up the attack to lvl2+.
To be honest, with the current version of desmume, that'd cause a ridiculous amount of lag where there isn't any on a cart, for basically every soul drop that you get, not to mention killing certain things. in a "normal" run through of the room containing 2 wargs/axe armors in the beginning and back, there were over 500 lag frames generated. If this wasn't the case however, I would easily suggest getting 5 axe armor souls as there are 7 axe armors almost directly in your path.
there might be a rare drop somewhere that might help out, too.
I had a look at the drop list of stuff, and the main thing that really stood out to me was blocking mail, as if it blocks hits without a damage animation, then it could come in *really* handy if you glitch the right combination of souls and equipment.
Soul wise, I'd recommend glitching an incorrect amount of golem souls, as you can get a ridiculous attack boost if you get enough, and if you combine that with the devil soul and a good weapon, the damage output is *very* nice.
Equipment wise, I'd try glitching a muramasa or valmanway and a chaos ring. I'm fairly sure I've once glitched a chaos ring into my inventory, but I can't remember if I actually managed to make it back to the game. The best I've managed to glitch equipment wise though yet is the katana 2 ranks below muramasa, so eh. If you combine these with a good bullet soul and a chaos ring, the overall damage output would be satisfyingly high.
klmz: unfortunately, to get the bad ending, you'd have to do the same exact stuff the normal run does up until The Pinnacle, more than half of the run.
That just makes the second half of the movie that much more awesome though.
Equipment wise, I'd try glitching a muramasa or valmanway and a chaos ring. I'm fairly sure I've once glitched a chaos ring into my inventory, but I can't remember if I actually managed to make it back to the game. The best I've managed to glitch equipment wise though yet is the katana 2 ranks below muramasa, so eh. If you combine these with a good bullet soul and a chaos ring, the overall damage output would be satisfyingly high.
AFAIK the only way to get glitched "high" equipment during a SG is slide once in a while while waiting a ridiculous amount of time before you can get back in bounds. After a couple of slides (about the time your equipment starts changing) you can't get back if you suspend the game. Also the earliest point where you can get those really good items with the SG is the first save room in the abyss. The same goes for incorrect amounts of souls.
I remember testing devil + golem x8 + SOME weapon, I dunno, against erinys + stolas x8, at the last boss. The latter was better by far (tested in real time so probably doesn't matter). I'll leave which weapon I used under a question mark because I really don't remember. Of course if you could manipulate a good one, plus some mind ups, it would save you a trip to the village.
Also, this.
I suppose it'd be nice to show an idea of what this run could be like (~2 minutes).
It's not actually optimal, as I noticed after I'd done it that I could kill the initial golem faster with another bone or two, and I could kill the flying armor faster by keeping it on the ground instead of it going high and waiting for the mp to refill. It took far too many rerecords to get that far though since I kept fucking up and overwriting my progress by accident.
klmz: unfortunately, to get the bad ending, you'd have to do the same exact stuff the normal run does up until The Pinnacle, more than half of the run. that's the first place where you can encounter a Succubus, and it's also where the Dario/Aguni fight is. so you can't glitch your way to the fight.
I read about something like that you could glitch into the bad ending scene with the succubus OoB. I haven't found out how, though.
EDIT: Be warned that if you glitch things too much, the final boss fight can take forever (Soma mode)!
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I read about something like that you could glitch into the bad ending scene with the succubus OoB. I haven't found out how, though.
Yeah, but it takes a good while to get a succubus soul, as they are not encountered before the pinacle.
I even also read something like you could get OoB without succubus soul at certain places. I haven't found where either.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
in Julius Mode, you can get out of bounds during the fight with Bat Company. use Alucard's Bat to fly in one of the corners, and if Bat Company grabs you, you go OoB. i don't know if the same works for Soma's bat.
If somebody is going to try this game, should it be a glitched or non-glitched run? I am asking because the succubus glitch is completely (sp?) broken, and a non-glitched run might be more interesting.
Well, the sucubus glitch doesnt allow "that" much sequence breaking, you still need to do a good portion of the game even if your using it
But i agree, there should be place for runs with and without sucubus glitch
just to put it out there, what would a nonSG run disallow? just warping outside the map to get glitched souls? or would it also disallow warping behind boss doors, requiring you to fight Death, Abaddon, Paranoia, and Aguni?
if the latter's true, i'd propose that the nonSG run fight all bosses. if you're trying to make the runs as different as possible, including Puppet Master, Rahab, and Gergoth would seal the deal.
if the latter's true, i'd propose that the nonSG run fight all bosses. if you're trying to make the runs as different as possible, including Puppet Master, Rahab, and Gergoth would seal the deal.
I'd more vote that it doesn't allow usage of the SG for anything, but anything else goes, including skipping bosses that otherwise do not need to be fought.
New Game SGing isn't any more game-breaking than backstab special skips - ban both or none. The route is identical except for two detours when you reach the Pinnacle, so the only difference is fighting four additional bosses. If you want boss fights, make a no-skip category - you'll get to see more of the castle and all of the bosses!
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Atma wrote:
I'd more vote that it doesn't allow usage of the SG for anything, but anything else goes, including skipping bosses that otherwise do not need to be fought.
I vote the same. Skipping the exciting bosses with the Cutall sounds bad, but that's what 100% runs are for.
100% in this game doesn't have to be 100% items, 100% souls, 100% enemies, and 100% map at the same time. That would definitely be overly tedious, especially the 100% map requirement. Instead, I propose a plain 100% enemies run. You'd have to fight all the bosses and calculate a careful path around most, but not all, of the castle. My second choice for a 100% run would be 100% enemies + 100% souls at the same time. Which if I remember correctly might require a second playthrough.
All souls is the only resonable 100% run for this game. And I don't think it requires a second playthrough.
Technically it requires a full playthrough on hard mode, as there's one soul you only get for completing a hard mode game. Unlike AoS however, hard mode in this game seems to do something, but I'm not sure what since I never really bothered to play through it (I know for a fact that zombies poison you in hard mode, but that's about it).
