Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
It's just that this game is really frustrating. The Final Fantasy Tactics map sucks, the useless Belmont descendants in the town suck, 99.9999% of her weapons are useless AND consume MP, you have abilities that use hearts but you can get them only in very few places or using stupidly expensive and riculously difficult to drop items.
The good things are only Shanoa's animation and some bosses...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Sleeve-use to cancel cooldown, jeeze.
Also, Light/dark may not be too good for TAS than either light/weapon or dark/weapon since you get that long animation.
As for Albus warping, remember that warping after changing rooms is twice as good as elsewhere when travelling horizontally (full screenwidth, edge to edge, instead of center to edge).
As for grinding: Inferno plain attacks on Jiang Shi. Each kill counts for skill and experience, no exit/re-enter necessary to respawn, and it is possible realtime to kill him before he starts moving again when he is casting the lightning spell (which he often will do when you break the seal) as you're getting three hits per button press if you get the spacing right- this also increases your RoF cap Mega-Man style as it doesn't care how long it takes, but whether the projectiles are still out and about.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
It's just that this game is really frustrating. The Final Fantasy Tactics map sucks, the useless Belmont descendants in the town suck, 99.9999% of her weapons are useless AND consume MP, you have abilities that use hearts but you can get them only in very few places or using stupidly expensive and riculously difficult to drop items.
The good things are only Shanoa's animation and some bosses...
The map is very different from Super Mario 3 (SMW, FFT, sure) because you don't walk on it. Just point and click and you're there. In a TAS you'll see a brief fade effect before I double tap with frame precision. You want to see a sucky FFT map? The currently published NSMB run. 'nuff said.
I agree that the villagers are a bunch of idiots who reward your grinding with underpowered items. I think they should be skipped in a TAS. Technically, the villagers could give you items earlier than you should have them. But since you usually have to replay a stage 3 times to get the right green chests to make them happy it's pointless.
This game has unlimited MP. It refills crazy fast. And they put heart fountains in the game to refill your hearts. There's one in the village. Since MP is of no concern, the hearts are what enable the powerful moves. If you're grinding candlesticks for anything or using heart refreshes, you're doing it wrong. You should use your hearts on the boss and get a free refill when the stage is over.
This game does have useless weapons (knives, Torpor, Cubus, and arguably the bow) but the hammer, sword, scythe, and rapier are all balanced in terms of dps, reach, and enemy weakness. When I played this game my glyph sleeves were hammers/sword+nitesco/lightning. That way I could kill every monster I encountered.
And if you're still frustrated, you can always do the villager's quests while powerlevelling. But I don't think a TAS will need to grind anything. Not even ability points. I think a TAS is going to grab a sleeve full of weapons, fly through the stages, and use the backdash-cancel trick to spam the bosses to death.
I stand corrected - there is exactly one discovered OoE glitch: klmz found a way to get a Nomion to force Shanoa into a wall. Which is a good start. But those monsters only appear at the start of the game and in Dracula's Castle. So I haven't found any use for the trick yet.
I agree that the villagers are a bunch of idiots who reward your grinding with underpowered items. I think they should be skipped in a TAS. Technically, the villagers could give you items earlier than you should have them. But since you usually have to replay a stage 3 times to get the right green chests to make them happy it's pointless.
Agreed. Saving the villagers is a must, but doing their dirty laundry is stupid and should be skipped.
Vol/Melio Culter(knives) can be fun to play with, actually. (Vol Culter is too hard to get before Melio, and comes far too late anyway, but that's another matter.) It's also useful for getting a quick kill from doorway so you can cycle the room of a killer fish/whate'er drops Merman Meat. Similarly, Vol Arcus is good on some bosses and enemies, and Melio Arcus is good when you get two Archer rings- since they increase the tracking rate as well as the damage, so it will even shoot behind you and will only rarely miss (Fleamen, ugh)
Cubus makes the Swamp a cakewalk, since most of the enemies get stoned.
That said, Torpor does suck. About all it's useful for is pulling off safer hits on the crab boss on the first playthrough.
edit: Gem quests may be useful for offense, and the wall-break instances of the gems are mostly on the way if chests are a problem (onyx and diamond are a bit late though)
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I'm going to start this run! No one else has claimed it and I've spent a week testing certain glitches, attacks, and movement. I don't have a route planned yet but the game is pretty linear up until Dracula's Castle, where it is still mostly linear. The real route planning is in deciding which items are worth straying off the path for, and deciding where and when I should level up.
My goals are going to be lowest time in frames, and any%. So I'm aiming for the shortest real time. So pauses count for me even though they don't count for the official clock. This decision affects how much pausing to swap weapons I can do. But this site tends to favor frames and shortest "audience time" and the glyph sleeve is in my way. So frames it is. And any% really just means that I'm aiming for the fewest frames at any cost. A 100% run would have to do multiple runs, the boss rush all the quests, etc. Ouch. Maybe later.
When this run is over I'll use it to verify my SRAM for an Albus run. I can't wait for that!
This game isn't very broken. I thought the lack of exploits in this game meant that people just hadn't had enough time to discover them yet. But after trying really hard to find them with frame advance, I think this game is actually very solid. The programmers have tried their absolute hardest to keep me from going OOB. And for the first time since SoTN, they've succeeded. No more leaving the map, zipping through null space, altering memory, and popping into Dracula's Castle with all the souls/glyphs/whatever and 247% map.
Examples of solid programming:
- I got a Nominon to carry me off of the left, right, and top edges of the screen while using Volaticus. In every case, when the Nominon dropped me off the screen, I would either pop back onto the screen (if there was a wall where he dropped me) or the screen would scroll correctly. I also tried having a pet kill the Nominon from off screen, suspending and hibernating the game, and mashing the buttons in logical ways. No luck.
- In the Mystery Manor there are little nooks in the roof two units high. Shanoa can only kneel in such short space, although the cat and machine morphs can stand in there. I'm thinking I should jump in there, unmorph, and try to get forced through the roof, right? The game forces you to crouch instead. Shanoa does get to be inside the wall for one frame so I tried holding different directions, jumping, morphing again, etc. No luck. Same deal in the Tymeo Mountains and the Training Hall.
- None of the attacks in this game move Shanoa. None of the morphs move Shanoa. Not even a pixel. The programmers have learned that if pressing Y to attack moves Shanoa even 1 pixel forward, that eventually we will abuse it. All of Shanoa's attacks, combos, up+Y moves, and morphs provide exactly zero displacement. That ruins a lot of Castlevania's famous glitches right there.
But I did find two glitches:
- The triple jump. If you're standing on solid ground press B+R at the same time. Shanoa will leap and morph at the same time. Three frames after the transformation is over you'll be able to jump again. And then you can do a double jump for a total of three jumps! This trick only works if you have the ordinary stone. The reason this trick works is because the second jump counts for Shanoa, but then the morph is allowed its second jump.
- Fall onto Brachyura (the giant enemy crab). This is useless, but hard. Stand below any platform in the lighthouse that would trigger Brachyura's appearance. Jump onto it from below. The frame before you count as 'touching' the platform you must either backdash or use the cat morph's Y button attack. If you do, and you spend at least a few frames on the platform, you'll trigger Brachyura's appearance but start falling. You'll land... on an invisible platform. It's the same platform that prevents you from simply dropping below Brachyura. And then Brachyura appears out of nowhere and starts doing MASSIVE DAMAGE because your controls are frozen during the cutscene.
You can cross the gap in the Tymeo Mountains with a single jump if an enemy cooperates. It doesn't really save any time. In fact there's no reason not to just come back with the double jump. But it is possible.
You can cross the gap in the Tymeo Mountains with a single jump if an enemy cooperates. It doesn't really save any time. In fact there's no reason not to just come back with the double jump. But it is possible.
how does that not save time? it cuts out a normally mandatory revisit.
Yeah, because reporter-guy (name forgotten, sorry) is at the far right, and it doesn't matter here which exit you use to get out to unlock Skeleton Cave.
(Newgame+ with speedup glyph is the easier means of testing)
As for quests on 100%, you don't need too terribly much backtracking, just need to for getting the mouse (since you can't pick it up without quest), Banshee's cry (again same) and crow-killing once you've rescued the family (Rescue mom, get to second warp point in pass, go get quest for that and rescuing Tom.)
Else, you should be able to do things straightaway or just pick up the items for the fetchquests whene'er, to my recollection...another town visit is needed before going to Oblivion Ridge to get werewolf killing quest, and a third before going to the Large Cavern for Jiang Shi quest, but that's it.
(Get the recording of banshee when you visit second time for Cubus, and get the Yeti snapshot and/or kill when you take the lower route there on your second visit to get Pneuma perhaps)
Hmm... A run would be awesome.
btw.
why is everyone of you so "entertaining" horny? (xD)
A good "complete" run is all i want.
Imho you can't make an entertaining CastleVania run.
I would watch it when it's well played etc.
why is everyone of you so "entertaining" horny? (xD)
God you made me have the worst TAS mental image ever.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Satoryu wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
how does that not save time? it cuts out a normally mandatory revisit.
Oh yeah! It does! I can grab Laura, grab Marcel, and exit by Marcel. I just checked to make sure that the Misty Forest Road is still unlocked if you take the alternate exit instead of the normal exit, and it is! Now I need to find a way to prevent the Minera Prision Island backtracking.
eternaljwh - If a 100% items run didn't involve playing both boss rushes 5 times each and pre-setting the system info to rig the birthday cake, I'd consider it. And then there's the Queen of Hearts which requires either a Wii or a hard mode level 50 game.
I hope the answer is yes, but I'll ask anyway. Would it be cheating a 100% run to buy items from other players on the wifi store? Since we can't rig the system clock in a dsm file we can't make sure that attempting to buy the birthday cake won't desync.
EDIT: Nevermind. There is no cake in this game. And best of all, the Queen of Hearts doesn't count towards 100% items! So even though they've fixed every useful glitch it seems as though the developers actually want me to try for a 100% run. Maybe later.
Honestly, I don't see the point of 100% items in any Castlevania game. 100% map coverage, I can understand though. Especially since Large Cavern is a pain in the rear.
btw.
why is everyone of you so "entertaining" horny?
the site's goal is to provide entertainment.
I know that it's the goal.
But imho you can't entertain with a Castlevania.
It's just du slow paced and even with glitches i'm sure
there will be no "wtf-effect". (like in other games.)
This game isn't very broken. I thought the lack of exploits in this game meant that people just hadn't had enough time to discover them yet. But after trying really hard to find them with frame advance, I think this game is actually very solid. The programmers have tried their absolute hardest to keep me from going OOB. And for the first time since SoTN, they've succeeded. No more leaving the map, zipping through null space, altering memory, and popping into Dracula's Castle with all the souls/glyphs/whatever and 247% map.
FYI, you can:
* glitch your STR to take advantage
* glitch your sprite (just for fun)
* glitch enemies/familiars to zip through walls (just for fun)
* zip through a wall (no idea if there're more)
* get OoB for a while, though you'll be back forcibly very soon (they indeed made it)
* etc.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
(Maybe klmz just hinted at this, but...) Don't forget the bugs with character stats:
- leveling up while morphed gives you a big stat boost (depending on the morph) that's permanent until the next level up or restart
- you can get the effect of equipping 3 accessories at the same time (despite only having 2 slots) if the 3rd one is a stats-booster, by leaving the menu with the start button while selecting the item to equip
I saw these mentioned on SDA, although I already knew about the first one since it's really easy to run across it in normal play. I think the stat gains are always absolute amounts (like +40 STR) so these will help more if the character is going to be relatively underleveld.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Both glitches are news to me. I checked two Castlevania sites (one was World Beyond Walls), GameFAQs, and Youtube. I didn't think to check SDA until just now. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see either of those glitches anywhere else. Leveling up while morphed is something I know I've done, too. I think I'll try playing around with the inventory and menus some more.
klmz, how do you do the other things? I've only ever entered a wall with a Nominon, and to no real effect. What other glitches are there?
you can get the effect of equipping 3 accessories at the same time (despite only having 2 slots) if the 3rd one is a stats-booster, by leaving the menu with the start button while selecting the item to equip
Is there any way to remove the item afterwords? That could be a problem before something like the Death Ring, as most stat boosters hurt other stats, and would want to be removed if you switch from physical stats to magical ones.
Oho, so it mean you can stack 3 times the death ring huge stats bonus :p
Im sorry catastrophe but wbw is realy poor about OoE, since its not glitchs friendly, hard to have stuff to say about it
I think kmlz have an extra way than nomino to get stuck in walls, but you wont probably make any good of it
Youll probably want to look to the cat form and get the stat boost glitch tought
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
The third accessory bug isn't what you think it is. "Attribute" in this case means something that would be called "elemental property" or "damage type" in most other games.
The glitch only works with the Archer Ring, Blow Ring (blunt damage), Wind Ring (slash damage), Ruby Ring, Sapphire Ring, Emerald Ring, Diamond Ring, and Onyx ring. First you must equip an accessory that is not one of these items. Then you pretend that you want to equip one of these items over that other item. Instead, cancel with the start button, and your archery/blow/slash/fire/cold/lightning/light/dark attribute will be boosted as if you had equipped the item.
And the effect only lasts until your next recalculation. Recalculations happen when you level up, pause the game (even if you unpause immediately), and when you change equipment. The reason that leveling up while morphed lasts until your next level up is because Shanoa's base stats are altered.
The cat and machine morphs aren't available until Dracula's Castle. But I can get the bat morph pretty early. The bat morph isn't worth as much of an attack bonus, but it doesn't reduce my walking speed. I think I'll get it because the bonus will surely help through most of the game and I might want to use the triple jump somewhere.
My WIP up to the Monastery. Is it okay to use DeHackEd's site for these files?
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/51085203/ooe-tas.smv
Could someone encode a LQ movie file of this WIP? Apparently the computer I'm currently on (not my own) is so crappy that it can't draw the graphics on the lower screen (even if I record an avi myself).
Quick and dirty LQ: http://www.sendspace.com/file/4mpek6
I'm playing this game right now, and damn loving every minute of it. It's a very well-done game.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I encoded my own version of the run when I posted the dsm but the colors turned out inverted. Some codec problem on my end. I uploaded it to YouTube because I thought that maybe YT would correct the error during its own re-encoding process. Nope. So I marked the very ugly video as private and posted the dsm instead. If someone can suggest a good codec to use I'm willing to do my own YT WIPs, too.
I've decided on my route! For the Monastery I'm going to need two Magical Tickets, a Heart Refresh (I was shocked to learn that they appeared in this stage), and the HEART MAX UP. I'm going to skip Culter (no use with frame advance, I tested) and the Book of Spirits. If I can convince a skeleton to drop a sword glyph then it's just as fast to beat the boss with it than without it at level 2. That's including the time to absorb and equip it. If I level up to 3 however (which I should not) and I grab a sword then the sword becomes way faster than the rapier.
(I'm going to keep calling the glyphs "sword" and "level 2 hammer" because this fake Latin stuff is hard for people who haven't played the game to follow along with.)
I also figured out that I'm going to need pretty much every HEART MAX UP in the game. I need 10 for a total of 150 hearts. But three of them are in Kalidius Channel, which is slow and requires a lot of backtracking for two of them. And then 5 more HEART MAX UPs are in Dracula's Castle. But that's good since HEART MAX UPs are the best way to replenish my hearts after a boss battle. So basically I need to spend all my hearts on a boss, find one of these before the next boss, and so on. The heart refresh items which are a rare drop on the first two maps are worth 30 hearts each. That's something I can't afford not to have either.
I can manipulate the RNG pretty easily by killing things, messing with the AI, and by kicking up dust clouds with my feet. I'm sure lots of other animations use the RNG, too. I've already made an improvement to the way I land from the long fall in Ecclesia. However, I need to burn some time to cause a heart refresh to appear. I'm manipulating this right now. Then I'll post a video of the Monastery.
