I have noticed in most multiplayer 1 vs 1 matches that if one player plays defensively enough he can survive for an infinite amount of time. What if it was 3 vs 1 instead?
Lets say you take a 4 player game with everyone having access to TAS tools. Three of the players try to kill one player. That one players goal is simply to survive as long as possible (possibly an infinite amount of time). Is it possible to survive an infinite amount of time and if not what is the highest amount of frames that one player can survive for?
When I thought of this idea SSB64 and Mario Kart 64 battle mode came to mind. What do you think the highest possible frames of survival are for these games.
This is certainly possible. Those top-down car games where you ram into each other to cause damage also comes to mind.
I can't think of any games where with TAS tools it would eventually become impossible to survive. It may even be possible to write a bot to calculate the next move. This would make an entertaining screensaver. :)
When I thought of this idea SSB64 and Mario Kart 64 battle mode came to mind. What do you think the highest possible frames of survival are for these games.
second one is trivial. Sit on item box and spam items. You will get enough stars (or very close) even unassisted to ne'er be hittable. as for SSB, you could probably luck-manipulate stars to similar end.
But if you had three other players who were tool-assisted, couldn't they push you off of the item box (while themselves invincible, presumably)? Or steal the item if there's time between acquiring or using it?
Tool-assisted competition is something that we haven't done at all extensively yet; the closest is a few demonstration 2P Versus fighting games, and those games are designed to prevent turtling. Trying to guess numbers of frames is going to be nigh-impossible.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
In MK64 at least, it'll (in simple case) boil down to which player has the cursor closest to bowser at the beginning, as they'll be more resistant to bumps.
Alternately, you have quite a lot of item boxes to pick from on the course, you don't actually have to sit on one box- it's probably better to drive around, actually, to hit itembox on frame soonest for starman.
Further alternately, they can't bump if you're ghosted as well as invincible.
Joined: 11/17/2005
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This is a guess of course. But I think it's the discussion you wanted.
Super Mario Kart (SNES) battle mode 1v1 would never end. You can always dodge a green shell or an invincible player. And all four tracks provide easy ways to dodge red shells. And that's without items. With items, you can take feathers, and the game will never end. There's also that track where you can enter the walled in areas with a feather. You don't need to be tool-assisted to play an infinite game there.
SMK 64 battle mode 1v1 would also never end. You can hop over both red and green shells. And invincible players can always still be dodged. Although without feathers, if someone was looking at your controller and knew what buttons you were pressing, then they would hit you with a star.
SMK 64 3v1 would probably end, although you might need two people to literally hold the victim down. The match is A+B+C vs D. Player D is on a perfect star route, always staying invincible between two or three item boxes. Players A and B take one or two hits each to bump D off the item box right as the invincibility duration ends. Player C then hits D during his briefly vulnerable moment. Repeat. But the second time, the final damage to D comes from the bomb carts of players A and B.
There are easier solutions that are not automatic wins. For example, it's the start of a game. Player D drives in the shortest path to the closest item box. The other 3 players all converge on player D. If player D finds any item other than a star from that first box, he's screwed. If I remember correctly, items can be stolen during the BLINK BLINK BLINK phase when the roulette stops. That'll also end someone's invincibility streak, although you still might need 3 carts to ensure that a hit lands.
in re: turtling in Battle 2's enclosed areas w/feather: You're not invincible in there. Not sure if using a feather while sitting/driving on an item box gets you the item while you jump, but that might be a way around.
In SMK 1, you didn't necessarily need to dump a red shell on a wall if you were a perfect driver going at top speed (as Bowser/DK), though this is more applicable to racing modes. Also, in battle mode you could if you aimed correctly cause a red shell to be unable to hit someone sitting in the open due to turning radius- it'd just loop until something hit it or another item bumped it out of the very limited number of projectile-on-course slots.
Catastrophe wrote:
Players A and B take one or two hits each to bump D off the item box right as the invincibility duration ends. Player C then hits D during his briefly vulnerable moment.
Running into starred karters while not starred does nothing to them, you just take the hit. Also, you have the entire invincible time to pick up your second star Right, can be stolen. But you can steal ghosts too
stolen during BLINK BLINK BLINK
99% sure that you can use the item during this period as well.
