He probably should have published his own DOS TAS, to further promote it as a viable option. You may have noticed that there hasn't been another attempt to submit a DOS TAS since, despite the tools being available.

As far as I know, DOSBox TASes can only be replayed properly by the creator of them. (They desync on any other computer/OS, or something like that...)

wow. We have a working DS emulator now? let alone one that can record TASs? I've been out of the loop for too long.

How many rejected submission have had a minority of yes votes?

I don't know.

You can't deny that a "site coordinator" accepting and publishing his own submission completely regardless of public opinion (on a server he doesn't even own) sounds a bit elitist.

Are you completely blind or what? Again, the majority of the voters voted yes. The overall view of public opinion was yes. Explain that.

I think the point people are trying to make is that there are runs with higher amounts of yes votes or yes percentages that have been rejected. Personally I think this is a judging policy that needs a radical change but me going into detail on that should be reserved for another thread :) I personally support adelikat's decision fully to push this run onto the site for publication in the hope to boost interest in DS TASing. If you think he's somehow being egotistical and trying to get some sort of massive credit gain, you clearly don't know him. If you feel this run is unoptimized or lacking then don't just whine about it, obsolete it. Hell, I'll bet if you ask adelikat to help you obsolete this run he'll support you as much as he can. So long as, you know. You haven't been a dick about the publication.

If you feel this run is unoptimized or lacking then don't just whine about it, obsolete it.

Hah, yeah. Next time someone makes a shitty movie tell the judges to accept it so other can obsolete it, and ask them to stop whining too. Also, that doesn't help the fact that a lot of people found this movie really boring. It's funny how this movie has 34 Yes votes and 29 non-Yes votes, and still gets accepted in a couple of days. Then you have something like Madou Monogatari I (here and here) with 22 Yes votes and only 3 No votes (1 from adelikat, probably) and he rejects it because "Sorry, but I am going against the grain here and rejecting this movie. I just don't think the game is TASvideos material."

Besides, everybody forgot our fearless leader said yes to publishing it. That's good enough for me.

Then you have something like Madou Monogatari I (here and here) ....

Strangely, this is the only game I feel that was ever rejected that was good enough for TASvideos. There is a really strong bias against Dungeon Crawlers by the current judges, but I did make a strong enough case to get some through :)

Look, if you really want to be picky about it, so far, 56% of the votes are yes = majority of the viewers liked it. I thought it was alright choice of a game, nothing more, publishable material.

Whats stated in the submission is far more important than what voting statstistics say. There is many movies on the site with 80%+ yes votes that have been rejected. Many of the people who did state there yes vote weren't very enthusastic about it. If we were to apply a 50% or more majority rule to every submission then there would be a lot of very bad runs getting published, and hence turn many viewers away.

I still don't think this run was much different than the real speedrun (non-TAS), but I do know of a few runs were a few MINOR improvements were found after making the submission and they were rejected on the basis of the run not being done as "quickly" as possible. I don't see how this is any different. Unless someone is working on an improved run right now...

the movie is clearly improvable. opting to save instead of cancelling just puts the nail the coffin by itself. i give this a very strong, albeit late, no vote. this run should in no way have been published. it's great DS runs can be done now, but there are better ways to handle tech demos. if it really is to promote the site, i think that's bullshit. this run breaks the site's guidelines; it goes against what the site is about. an iffy run like this shouldn't be used to promote the site. one with a much more positive opinion should. adelikat accepting his own publication, too, is bullshit. it is abuse of power, and unsportsmanlike. the least that could have been done is to let another judge accept it.

Would have voted no/meh to the run, and I was also surprised to see it published based on the ratio of votes, no less this quickly. The run was repetitious, the shell abuse was unimpressive to watch, and I couldn't help but feel lack of optimization in a few places. I have to say I agree with Warp about Adelikat's abuse of power.

This action is consistent with Dragon Egg (PCE), SoTN (PSX), and Kenseiden (SMS).

Don't know about DE or Kenseiden, but SoTN actually had a much larger majority vote, and was easily far more entertaining and optimized than this.

http://tasvideos.org/Moozooh/MostPopularExcuses.html I see several reasons in this list why this movie shouldnt have been published.

Quoting adelikat (indirectly), having made a mistake in the past doesn't justify making a similar mistake in the present. Granted that movies cannot be unpublished (at least at the moment of writing this paragraph), having a worse run published doesn't mean a judge should accept sub-par movies.

also this is hilarious

This is, to be frank, bullshit. It barely had enough Yes vote to go over 50%, Yes votes rarely count for much anyway, and it was published by the person who made it in a direct attempt to get site hits!. That, frankly, should be grounds for an immediate permanent banning of adelikat to prevent it from happening again. Obviously, admonishing phil the last time wasn't enough to prevent it from happening again. This place is supposed to have higher standards than this!

I'm glad this submission was published. Now, I was not aware whether adelikat handled the judging&publishing himself. Last I noticed, he was hoping mmbossman will do it. If neither did, I would have, and I would have accepted this submission for publication. Rationale: On this site, publication is slightly better thing than no publication. This movie is, at least slightly, entertaining -- and the ratings seem to support this. Average entertainment rating currently is 5.8, which is better than "average". Nowhere in our rules does it say that the movies must be perfect. There is only one mention towards that general direction, and this movie passes that criteria. We have dozens of guidelines which emphasize perfect game technique knowledge, but the purpose of the guidelines is primarily to steer the players' attention. The guidelines are also used in the judging process, but applying them is a matter of balancing the vague measures of the supply (do we have something else to offer (now or soon)?), the demand (how much do people want to see such a movie?) and the required effort (how much extra labor are we demanding from the submitter if we reject it?) in a non-mathematically precise manner. In this case, the supply aside from this movie is clearly zero to the moment, and the demand is significantly nonzero, so therefore it was an easy decision. If you are angry at this movie being published despite its quality, go ahead and obsolete it. Quick. The quicker you do, the less time it remains published. (But be sure to meet the guidelines. In the contester case, the supply is no longer zero, so you won't have that advantage for shrugging off obvious mistakes.) I hope this ends the discussion.

Now, I was not aware whether adelikat handled the judging&publishing himself. Last I noticed, he was hoping mmbossman will do it. If neither did, I would have, and I would have accepted this submission for publication.

The fact that the movie got published is not what matters to me personally—I don't know about the others that are complaining—but what seems wrong to me is the fact that someone judged his own movie. That is what we should be looking at here. Regardless if the decision was sound or backed by other judges or members of the community, this is something that should not happen because it paves the way for potential abuse in the future. Regardless if this is about individual cases or not, I do still think that it was especially important in this particular situation because of the tepid reception of this submission. Why would a judge choose to accept his own movie somewhat quickly after the reception turned out to be rather unenthusiastic? At best, this just looks really bad. EDIT: by the way, I just want to say that I have no intention to defy this until the end. I don't need the submission to be reverted. But I do think that now that this has occurred, we should have a discussion about it right here and now. Some people have voiced a pretty legitimate concern, and not taking care of it now will only cause it to come out slowly in random unrelated topics instead. We need to stand somewhere on this.

This movie is, at least slightly, entertaining -- and the ratings seem to support this. Average entertainment rating currently is 5.8, which is better than "average".

I'm not exactly sure why you are trying to ignore the primary issue being discussed here, and instead are trying to argue why it was a good idea for the movie to be published, with dubious arguments. You know perfectly well that even though 5.0 is in the middle of the rating range, it's not the true "average". This has been discussed many, many times, and it's more or less clear that the ratings tend to use "school grades", where less then 5 is "failed" and "average" is somewhere around 7.5. Personally these are the issues that bother me: 1) The run was put through the regular submission and voting process, but then the resulting discussion and votes were completely ignored and the submission accepted well before the discussion and voting had reached any kind of consensus, making the whole thing just a show and a farce. Why put up the show if it was going to be published regardless? That's making a mockery of people who voted and discussed about the submission. 2) It's rather clear that the submission was rushed into publication, bypassing the voting process, for the sole reason that it's the very first DS TAS ever submitted. Yet judges are outright denying this, claiming that it has nothing to do with the fact. This is incomprehensible to me. Would some kind of honesty be too much to ask? 3) The one who accepted and published the submission was the author himself. No matter how trustworthy and professional the author may be, this is a bad breach of etiquette, makes a mockery of the whole voting process and the people who participate in it, and is unfair against other runners who must submit to the regular process and have no special privileges. The major problem with this is that admins abusing their powers like this, no matter how well-intentioned, degrades the moral standards of the community. 4) You are claiming that this would have been published anyways, according to the votes and the quality of the run. Yet submissions have been rejected in the past for much less, even when having significantly more yes votes and less objections. Submissions have been rejected in the past when clear flaws have been pointed out in them (even if they have not been obvious without knowing the flaws), pending an improved version by the author. This feels like highly inconsistent judging, subject to the whims of whoever happens to make the decision at that time and what his mood might be at the moment. Most importantly, this seems unfair for those who have had their submissions rejected with significantly less reason.

I would like to call attention to http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7687 The first PSX TAS. Notice the following: A. There isn't that much debate on whether or not it should have been accepted. Most of the controversy in the topic stems from whether or not a non-glitched run should be made, or whether a bug was fixed in the US version. B. There is no possible conflict of interest, while the NSMB run has no short amount of controversy over that. C. Very few people claim the run can be improved, while many people, including some who are very familiar claim the NSMB run could be improved easy. The possible improvements don't fall under a newly discovered and/or very obscure trick, either. Some of the mistakes in the run are amateurish as hell, and would be grounds for rejection in other cases. See the saving. D. Few people give the excuse "Well, it's the first run of the system, therefore it should be accepted." As noted earlier, this goes against http://tasvideos.org/Moozooh/MostPopularExcuses.html, specifically 1a. Now, tell me straight to my face that this run should have been accepted. It shouldn't have been, and any attempt otherwise is either lying to yourself, or others. I'm going to state my bias here. I liked the movie. It was very entertaining to me. However, this topic has shown exactly what was wrong with it, and why it should not be accepted. Anything less is frankly a betrayal of this site's very purpose. And once again, I call for a permanent ban of adelikat, or at least a permanent demotion. This should never be tolerated here. I am most likely going to bow out of this debate, as I have little reason to believe I could state my case better(I think in a twisted form of how Yoda talks. Typing up a post like this is incredibly difficult, and tires me out considerably). I will post again if anyone tries to refute my points, however.

D. Few people give the excuse "Well, it's the first run of the system, therefore it should be accepted." As noted earlier, this goes against http://tasvideos.org/Moozooh/MostPopularExcuses.html, specifically 1a.

This would have been a more fitting example of that argument.

And once again, I call for a permanent ban of adelikat, or at least a permanent demotion. This should never be tolerated here.

This is kind of ridiculous. I think that it's a bad idea for a judge to have the final say on what happens to his own movie, but it does not stand to reason to demand such repercussions. I can see why people are already getting tired of this discussion when this sort of argument is being used.

D. Few people give the excuse "Well, it's the first run of the system, therefore it should be accepted." As noted earlier, this goes against http://tasvideos.org/Moozooh/MostPopularExcuses.html, specifically 1a.

This would have been a more fitting example of that argument.

I had forgotten about that one. >.> I also wanted to call attention to the link, as it contains other arguments against this run's publication.

Wow, ban adelikat? That's funny. :D I'm sure he really feels appreciated after all the work he's done on FCEUX and DeSmuME and judging and stuff. Personally I think it would be better if the judges completely ignored everything peons say if it would result in less stupid discussion like this.

Yay published!

And once again, I call for a permanent ban of adelikat, or at least a permanent demotion. This should never be tolerated here.

Regardless of my strong opinions about the subject, I think that would be too excessive. The only thing I'm hoping for is a less elitist attitude from the judges/admins, which is fairer towards "regular" people who contribute and who have no special privileges. Listening to people rather than considering them morons goes a long way in making the TASing community more enjoyable for everybody. Seriously, would it really had been such a huge burden for adelikat to remake his run with the flaws fixed? Was it really that important to rush the publication no matter what?

If you don't nip this kind of problem in the bud, it begins to get worse. Then, you've bought yourself a one way ticket to the site's slow death. Things have been going in a bad direction for a while now, and this nonsense makes it actually possible for the site to go down the shitter permanently. Better to deal with the problem now and make an example out of the person who caused it then wait until later when it's too late. It'll cause hell, but in the end the site will be better for it.