Chrono Trigger any% TAS by inichi

Finally, I made it. I'm sorry for keeping the entire movie-making process secret and not posting any WIP on the forum. The expected improvement was so gigantic that I couldn't resist an inpulse to make the run surprising. Also, the submission text is still incomplete. I think this is a bad thing. However, considering these facts:
  • Most part of the run is totally new stuff. So it would take a long time to cover them all, even in Japanese, my native language.
  • This is a long-term project; I started making the run in August 2007.
  • Chrono Trigger is a very popular RPG, and not a few people have been interested in how the run is going.
I thought it would be better to submit the run as fast as I could than to write up full texts and submit it. I will upload the rest of the submission texts little by little.

Emulator Details

  • Recorded on snes9x-1.51-rerecording-svn-r51
  • Left+Right/Up+Down - off
  • Volume Envelope Height Reading - off
  • Fake Mute desync workaround - on
  • Sync samples with sound CPU - off
Note: To play the movie correctly, you must use Snes9x1.51 v5 or newer version; otherwise the movie will desync in about 1.5 minutes. You can get the latest Snes9x 1.51 here. YouTube link is also available. Thanks to nesrocks!

Run Attributes

  • Abuses glitches
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Aims for fastest possible time
  • Corrupts save data
  • Manipulates luck
  • Genre: RPG
Note: I'd highly recommend you skip 1:45-3:45 because that part is very repetitive for abusing the item duplication glitch.

About the game

Chrono Trigger is a memorable role-playing game developed and published by Square in 1995. The story is about a boy named Crono who travels through time with his friends to save the world from an alien parasite, Lavos. The game is also recognized as one of the best RPG, attracting a lot of new fans even today.

About the movie

This is a 3 hour 59 minute 48 second improvement over Hero of the Day's current published run. The improvement mostly came from massive new tricks and glitches. See the below "Tricks and Glitches" section for details.

Tricks and Glitches

In this section, I will give a full explanation of all glitches and tricks I used in the run.

Item duplication

This is a glitch to duplicate items by loading a corrupted save file.
Mechanics: It takes 2 frames to save the game in Chrono Trigger. some values between 7E2400 and 7E264F are overwritten in SRAM in order in the first frame; the rest of them and values in addresses after 7E264F are overwritten in order in the second frame. That means you can get a half-saved save file if you reset the game in the first frame of saving. Off course, this is an invalid procedure for the game, so the target data is deleted. In Chrono Trigger, however, you can load the corrupted data by pressing A and up/down key at the same time in the load screen.
Also, for the reason mentioned above, you can only affects on 7E2400-264F by resetting in saving. What are in those memory addresses are like this:
  • 7E2400-FF: Item ID (last 14 bytes are unused).
  • 7E2500-FF: Item number (last 14 bytes are unused).
  • 7E2600-4F: Crono's status
How many addresses between 7E2400-264F are overwritten in the first frame are slightly influenced on the previous key presses and cursor movements. Basically, you can manipulate it to some extent by changing them or costing a few frames. To make things easier, I used a lua script.
How to duplicate an item? Item duplications are basically classified into three methods. I'll explain for each method.
Explanation of the chart: Using data is a data that you use to save. Object data is a data that are saved in the glitch-use. Result data is a data you get after the glitch-use. Bronze means Bronze Helm; Hide means Hide Cap. Null means there are no items in the slot. Numbers next to them means item number.
Method 1:
Using dataObject dataResult data
Null 0Null 0Null 0
Null 0Null 0Null 0
Bronze 2Hide 1Bronze 1
Hide 1Bronze 2Hide 2
This method is kind of switching. Only item ID is overwritten, and you can get two items with different ID. This is done in one reset.
Method 2:
Using dataObject dataResult data
Null 0Null 0Null 0
Null 0Null 0Null 0
Bronze 2Hide 1Bronze 1
Hide 1Bronze 2Bronze 2
This method is basically the same with the first one except that the below item ID isn't overwritten. As a result, you can get the same items that have different numbers. This requires extreme precision, unless you insert some null slots around the border, which is slower. This is also done in one reset.
Method 3:
Phase 1:
Using dataObject dataResult data
Hide 1Null 0Hide 1
Bronze 2Null 0Bronze 2
Null 0Hide 1Null 1
Null 0Bronze 2Null 2
Phase2:
Using dataObject dataResult data
Null 0Hide 1Null 1
Null 0Bronze 2Null 2
Hide 1Null 1Hide 1
Bronze 2Null 2Bronze 2
Phase3:
Using dataObject dataResult data
Hide 1Null 1Hide 1
Bronze 2Null 2Bronze 2
Null 0Hide 1Hide 1
Null 0Bronze 2Bronze 2
This method is the most complicated, but most powerful one of all. With this method, you can extend items over the above null slots. This actually can be done with Method 2. However, it is much slower because it requires you to buy other items for replacement in each use, which takes much time. This method also requires extraordinary precision, unless you insert some null slots around the border, which is slower. You need to reset three times for this method.
How they were used in the run? Duplicating Hide Caps and Bronze Helms and having them in 98 slots with three methods. This is what I did in the first 3.5 minutes in the run. I'll write it down step by step:
First, I bought 1 revive and 20 Tonics from the merchant at the fair for 400G, Crono's pocket money. With Method 1, Two items ID were switched, resulting in 20 Revives and 1 Tonic, both of which were immediately sold. With that money, I bought a Bronze Helm and 5 other items from two merchants. Second, with Method 2, I changed 5 items into Bronze Helms and Hide Caps. Now I had Bronze Helms and Hide Caps in 7 slots. Finally, with Method 3, I extended them over the above null slots. The actual pace is like this: 7-13-25-49-98. Thus, I got Hide Caps and Bronze Helms in 98 slots.
Having the same type of equipment in 98 slots allows you to access various memory addresses via the equipment screen in Chrono trigger. This is actually the only purpose of all item duplications I did in the first 3.5 minutes. I'll explain the detail in the below section.

Accessing various memory addresses.

As stated above, Having same type of equipment in 98 slots allows you to access various memory addresses that you normally can't.
Mechanics: When you call on the individual equipment screen, item ID that corresponds the equipment type that the cursor currently points out is stored in 7E0F00-60; item number in 7E0F61-C2 as well. All they appear in the equipment selection screen. Yes, as you can see, each has only 96 bytes for their purpose. So if you have the same type of equipment in more than 96 slots, item numbers will flow into 7E0FC3 or later addresses. It is required to flow them into 7E0FC4-6 to access various memory addresses. This is why you need to have them in 98 slots at least. I write down the function of those addresses:
7E0FC4: Decides how many the cursor can move in the character selection screen.
7E0FC5: Decides where the cursor is in the equipment screen. It also works as an offset when you equip, which is stored in C2A4AB-A5AA, and it works like this: 7E2600+xx (in Crono's case)
7E0FC6: Decides how many the cursor can move in the equipment selection screen.
In my run, I accessed and overwrote these three addresses: 7E2985, 7E2980 and 7E2990.
7E2985: An address for a third reserve character. You cannot access 7E2983-84 because any appropriate address doesn't have 13-15, 63-65, B3-B5. I stored 0A in 7E2985, which saved a lot of time when accessing 7E2980. Also, although the address is for a third character, it is treated as it is just under the main three characters when no one is in the first or second reserve.
7E2980: An address for the first party character. You can't access 7E2981-82 since any appropriate address doesn't have 11,12,61,62 B1, and B2. This was rather inconvenient, but not much. This address was heavily accessed and overwritten throughout the run to call out a character who must be in a cutscene or to use "Character warping" trick that will be picked up later.
7E2990: An address for the configuration setting. By modifying the configuration setting, you can store any value out of 256 in the address. Because you are accessing it via the equipment screen, if you equip something with it, the value in the address appears as an item in the item inventory. The thing is, you can retrieve any item from this address.
The alternative way to retrieve an item is to use an address of one character of name strings. The problem with that plan is, once you retrieve an item from it, you can't use the character for that purpose again. I needed three different items in the run, Bike Key, Elixir and Green Dream. That means I have to change the item order twice to withdraw an item from another character, which would consume time.

Character warping

Every time you open the pause menu, all your three character X-Y coordinates are stored in proper addresses. However, if a missing number is in your party and he is not in the first, the appropriate address is not updated. And then, if you replace the missing number with a normal character, the character appears on the coordinates which was stored in when you previously opened the menu. Now a second or third character warping happens. After you use the warping trick at least once in an area, coordinates stored in the addresses always take the same value with a normal character one even if a missing number is in your party. Therefore, you can make even the first character warp by keeping the missing number in the party in the first warp, and just replacing him with a normal character.
Very unfortunately, this isn't applied to overworld coordinates. If it was feasible, the run would shrink by another 10 minutes.

Character sliding

Normally, a second and third character mimic the first character's movement. However, if he is a missing number, he can't mimic the first. Instead, the movement he should have mimicked stacks up in proper addresses until a counter reachs 128 and erases them all. With enough such stacks, if you replace a normal character with the missing number, the character starts sliding, mimicking the movement that has stacked up. While sliding, the character can go through any obstacles.
To make the most of this, you need to use the character warping once or change a character order beforehand so that missing number's next X-Y coordinates could be subject to the normal character's one. Otherwise, a character called out will warp far away and start sliding there, which is unfavorable.

Marle join skip

If you talk to either one of the two merchants with Marle in the party, he sets a flag to remove the men who block the way to Telepod area. Thus, you can entirely skip the marle joining cutscene and enter Telepod area.
Alternatively, you can go through those men in the same way as used in the Factory, which will be mentioned in the below section. When you go back from Telepod area, however, they block your path, and you have to go through them again. So it's a waste of time, though it might be useful for a new game+ run.

Pause menu abuse

By opening the pause menu and leaving it when the screen starts to fade out, you can have a few frames to move in another direct. If you repeat this again and again, you can get to a point that would trigger a certain event, keeping the fade-out status. If you set a flag that determines if the event completed and let the fade-out be done, you are brought to the previous room and it is considered the event already finished.
This trick could have been featured as a main timesaver to skip some boss battles. However, due to the discovery of the more sequence-break glitch, the trick was used in only one place moderately: Telepod area, to skip Lucca’s dialogue.

Playing around at the Telepod area

Unless Crono picks up the pendant, you never lose control, which provides a first huge play-around time. This is useful not only to mess around, but also to make a moving counter of Taban and Lucca faster. Normally, the moving counter of them are incremented by 1 per 4 frames. However, if you keep touching him/her, it is incremented by 1 per 1 frame. Also this is a necessary step to completely skip Middle Ages. See the below section for details.

Middle Ages skip

In every gate transition, a flag that determines if you are in warping is set a few frames before the fade-out completes. That is, you can escape the area with the flag is on if you interrupt another fade-out, which was the entrance of Telepod area in my run's case. If you enter the gate area with the flag is on, the game considers you just got through the gate, and consequently open the gate with your character. In Telepod area's case, the game also considers you just returned from Middle Ages, and increments the storyline counter enough to trigger the trial events. A big timesaver, certainly. Also, Marle must be in the party when you enter the castle; otherwise the game freezes right after entering the castle.
Alternatively, I tested to go to Guardia Forest gate area instead of entering the Telepod area right soon, hoping to entirely skip the trial cutscene. As expected, Magus appeared from the gate; however, the gate disappeared soon and I wasn't able to go into it, proving it not useful for the run.

Candy skip

A flag that triggers the candy cutscene is set when Marle joins in Crono. Since Crono and Marle never met in a intended way in the run, the candy cutscene also never happened.

Getting out of the trial

In the flashback scene of the trial, the game makes the first character appear there. And if the first character isn't Crono, you can move him at free. If he is a missing number, nobody shows up there, but you can still open the menu. And then, if you call out a normal character, it meets the condition of "Character warping trick" and he appears in the same position with where you previously opened the menu. In my run, it is the south entrance of Leene’s Bell area. At this point, the storyline counter is enough to trigger the Marle runaway cutscene. Thus, you can skip the latter half of the trial and all the events in the jail. A huge time-saver, off course.
Also, Lucca must be in the party when you enter the castle; otherwise the game freezes after Marle runs out of the castle.

Arris Dome skip

Johnny appears at Lab 32 if you enter there with a Bike Key. That means you can completely skip Arris Dome, where you can get a Bike key from Doan after you finish all the events there. This may be not intense, but definitely a solid timesaver.

Bike Race skip

This is very similar to Middle Ages skip. A flag that determines if the race was over is set a few frames before a fade-out to the race track completes. Also, the fade-out is slower than the usual screen transition one. The thing is, if you start a fade-out to overworld just after you turn the key, you can escape to the overworld with the flag is set. "Character warping trick" only makes it possible, so you need a set up beforehand. I used a north edge of Lab 16 east for that purpose because it has the same Y coordinate with the south entrance of Lab 32. You may notice I did a strange behavior in Lab 16 east. That is exactly the set up for Bike Race skip.
Alternatively, you can directly get the needed Y coordinate at the south entrance of Lab 32. However, it requires to go out and in Lab 32 to avoid the freeze that results from the lack of characters. After all, it will be slower.

Warping to the main area of Lab 32

Once that flag is set, the entrance to the Lab 32 main area is activated. In Chrono trigger, most entrance never causes the fading out unless you move in there. That entrance, however, doesn't require such movement, and lets you go into the next area by just standing there. If you enter any location followed by a missing number, the game considers you are at (255,0), the right above place, which is in the entrance of Lab 32 main area. So the game immediately sends you into the main area.
There is another reason I had to use this trick: If you enter there followed by a normal character, Johnny tries to speak, but since he is outside the screen, he can't do it and the game freezes. Using this trick is the only way to avoid the freeze and advance the game.

Going through the barrier sprite

You can vertically go through the barrier sprite if it is outside the screen. To achieve this, you have to enter the room with a missing number in the first character. By this, the game considers you at (255,0) and then focus the camera on that point, which allows you to go through the barrier.
Alternatively, you can go through the barrier by using "Character sliding" trick instead. However, it requires one extra menu-opening, so I didn't use it, though I had no choice to use it when trapped out. Because this time it was required to move horizontally to go through the barrier.

Playing around with R-series

R-series bounce off only Crono. That means you can move around during the cutscene by fitting other character in the first, providing a second huge play-around time. It should be noted that Marle and Lucca won't do because they will take their regular position and just stand still. Like the Telepod area, this free-time is useful for shaving off frames. I did these two things for that purpose: 1) Erase the dialogue screen of R-series or Robo before they pop up by getting them out of the screen at the right timing. 2) Increments the moving counter of R-series by touching one of them at certain timing.
Normally, after Robo is knocked down, you become unable to move a character anymore. However, if you interrupt a fight with Alkalines just before losing control, R-series are also caught in the battle. This was supposed to be the fight with only Alkalines, so you can escape from them. Thus, you can gain control again. When the real R-series battle is about to start is the best timing you interrupt another Alkalines battle. With this, you can not only escape from them again, but also increments the storyline counter enough to open the door in Proto Dome.

Smoothly escaping

An escape counter builds up even when you open the technique or item menu in battle. The thing is, you can escape from a battle without being attacked by setting the battle mode "Wait", opening the either menu and holding the L+R buttons. This trick was featured in all the three battles in the Factory.

Robo repair skip

If you enter Proto Dome from overworld after the R-series fight, the game considers you just dragged Robo into, and make characters appear in front of the door for repair. That area is actually in warning area of the below enmies, so the characters start running down for fighting, though a fight starts halfway. When the fight finishes, you gain control and the repair cutscene never starts. At this point, the door to the gate room already opens; consequently, you can completely skip the Robo repair cutscene.
 
Also, when you enter Proto Dome, the first character must be Crono for these two reasons: 1) If you enter the gate room without Crono, the game freezes. 2) If a character is other than Crono, Marle, Lucca and Robo, he/she appears near the entrance, which doesn't awake the enmies and the game freezes.

Playing around at the End of Time

When you speak to snoaring Gasper, you are given a few frames to move around until he starts talking. And if you take the opportunity of talking to Robo twice, you can avoid losing control. This is actually temporary, and you will lose control as usual after you skip the dialogue. However, if you check the healing bucket right after skipping the dialogue, three party characters get together and you can gain control again, providing a third huge play-around time. In the non-glitched run, the trick saves little time, only allowing you to get slightly faster to the point that Gasper shouts "Hey!" to Crono. In the glitched run, however, the trick serves as the set up to perform "Lavos Shell skip" more smoothly and dramatically. I'll pick it up later.

Confusing Spekkio

If you talk to Spekkio while you are still running around the room, he claims to do it over. However, if you continue and complete it keeping the dialogue screen open, he thinks it as succeeded. This doesn't save any frames, but I added it to the run because I felt it would slightly enhance the entertainment value.

Lavos Shell skip

This trick makes full use of the characteristics of gate transition as well as Middle Ages skip does. This is definitely the most difficult trick to pull off. Here are some important facts:
  1. In every gate transition, your starting X-Y coordinates in the next location is set a few frames before a fade-out completes.
  2. If you open the menu in that tiny window, you can overwrite them with the current X-Y coordinates.
  3. If your characters appear at (7-8, 0-8), the entrance into Lavos's body, in the day of Lavos, they immediately jump into Lavos's body. The reason is that the entrance has the same features as the Lab 32 one: Fade-out occurs by just being at the appropriate position.
The thing is, if you manage to open the menu at (7-8, 0-8) at the End of Time just before the fade-out to the day of Lavos completes, you can completely skip Shell Lavos. Normally, this is out of the question. In the first place, (7-8, 0-8) is outside the moveable area. Second, you lose control right after checking the bucket to the day of Lavos, which means you can neither move nor open the menu anymore. To solve this problem, I used the following glitches:
  1. If you run around the End of Time autofiring the A button with a dialogue screen opened, the second and third character eventually fall behind the first.
  2. If the two are too far behind the first, they stop catching up with the first and newly start it with reference to the position they stopped. Note: You need to use the trick "Playing around at the End of Time" to reproduce these two glitches in a timely manner.
  3. Hold two gate messages, choose yes for each. Then if the second message screen closes just before the rest characters, who run at the first to fly for the first gate waping, joins in him, you can restore the function to open the menu even while flying.
  4. Under these conditions, if you change the order of characters twice, you can get out of flying and freely move.
To pull off these four glitches are required to skip Shell Lavos. Here is what I did in the run:
First, use the "Playing around" trick and get the other characters out of the screen with the first and second glitch while Gasper gives the long speech. Second, replace the three characters with Ayla, Magus and $17 when Gasper finishes the speech. The reason I call out Magus and Ayla is they don't take any action when Spekkio tries to give Magic, which saves a few hundred frames. Although it's not visible, Lucca, the third character, is at (8,0) at this point. These coordinates values are stored in the proper addresses, which will be really helpful later. Third, enter Spekkio's room and acquire Magic from Spekkio, no one actually gets it though. Now the bucket to the day of Lavos is activated. Fourth, check the bucket so that the Gasper's warning message doesn't hinder the third and fourth glitches.
Fifth, talk to Gasper because it is needed to show his dialogue to hold more than one gate message. Sixth, hold the Proto gate message, which is the shortest one of the three, and check the bucket. Seventh, use the third and fourth glitches and get right to the save point. Since the Lavos gate message was the first, warping to the day of Lavos is going to occur at this point. It should be noted that (8,0) is still stored in the addresses because only the first and second character were swithced. Eighth, right after the starting X-Y coordinates in the day of Lavos is loaded, use the character warp trick, send the first character into (8,0) and save the game. The save point effect lasts for a few frames after you leave there, so that's no problem to save on that position. Now the save file includes the day of Lavos as the current location, and (8,0) as the current position. Finally, reset the game and load the save file. Magus appears at (8,0) in the day of Lavos. As I stated above, that position is in the entrance to Lavos's body. Therefore, the game sends him into the inner body in a blink.
Now we've done Lavos Shell skip!
It is extremely difficult to pull off, but the result is priceless. For the record, this is my favorite trick of all I have discovered.

Instant kill

Normally, when a character with the Green Dream is defeated, he automatically revives. However, when two RNG conditions are satisfied, the game temporarily considers him as dead. and if the other two characters are really dead at that point, he becomes unable to use an item on enemies instead of himself. If you use an Elixir on an enemy and the sum of its current HP and the HP heal is more than 32768(0x8000), that causes overflow and does instant kill. Inner Lavos has 20000 HP; Lavos Core has 30000 HP. Therefore, you can immediately finish those battles with the glitch. This is why I had to get a Green Dream and an Elixer from the configuration setting address.
Also, for some reason, the glitch never occurs if the character has any status effect such as protect or chaos on him/her. I guess this is why the trick had not discovered for a long time.

Useful key combinations

There are three useful key combinations to be mentioned:
X: If you press the X button in battle, you can point at an enemy as an attack target wherever the cursor is. This was helpful for targeting Lavos in using the instant kill glitch.
Start and Up/Down/L/R: Normally, you need 2 frames to move the cursor, as you have to insert null frame in each key press. However, if you press either the Up or Down key holding the start key, the cursor moves per one frame, which makes it possible very rapid cursor movements. The same goes for the L/R buttons. It normally requires 5 frames to scroll three pages; however, holding the start key reduces it to 4 frames. It should be noted, however, that it can be applied in only three places: the item inventory, the equipment selection screen, and the shopping window. In battle, for example, holding the start button will do nothing. This really comes in handy in a save-corruption run because you have to move up and down in the item inventory multiple times to perform the item duplication glitch properly.
B and Start: Once these two buttons are pressed in the pause menu or the character change menu, every frame is treated as the B button pressed until you leave the menu. Thus, you can immediately get out of the menu no matter where you are. Note that this is slightly faster than the normal method because it requires null frame in each B button presses.

Thanks

(in no particuarly order)
  • Bisqwit - For running the whole TAS Videos community. He is also one of them who tried to make a CT TAS.
  • Geiger - Using his Snes9x debugger, I could develop the item duplication glitch into the setup for a game-breaking glitch. Also his various texts on his CT hacking results were very informative and helpful.
  • Gocha - I learned how to make a TAS from his weblog. He also has fixed various bugs and implemented some good features on Snes9x 1.51.
  • Hero of the Day - Watching his TAS, I decided to make a CT speedrun. He developed lots of good boss strategies, all of which are just plain awesome. I used most of them in my speedrun, some in my test TAS.
  • Mashmallow - I referred his movie on SDA several times when I tried to break his record.
  • Molotov - He introduced my first CT speedrun to SDA and TAS videos, which broadened my perspective and has finally brought me here.
  • Nanashi(七誌) - He implied there were more tricks that I had not known then, which motivated me to discover new tricks more and more.
  • Okuto(オクト) - A Japanese CT speedrunner. It was his reports on his run that I first knew about CT speedrun.
  • Reudy(ロイディ) - A very skillful Japanese CT speedrunner. he made a 100% CT run on console and even found some useful tricks for TAS.
  • Ryuuou Leo(竜王レオ) - A website manager of Japanese CT site, providing a community to discuss CT speedrun. He is also a good CT player.
  • Saturn - I learned how to make an optimized CT TAS by analyzing his new game+ TAS.
  • Tilus - At the beginning of making a CT speedrun, I followed his posts one by one, which were really suggestive and helpful.
And finally, I would really thank to all the people on TASvideos. If you had not been, I would never be able to make this run. I'd really appreciate it.
I hope you will enjoy the run!

adelikat: Accepting for publication as a "glitched any%" category.
ShinyDoofy: Might as well get some use of the effort I put into Snes9x 1.51 on Linux... Claiming for encoding.

adelikat: Some good points in the discussion in the forum topic has caused me to change my mind. This will obsolete the current movie. Mainly this keeps our options open the most. The published movie is very outdated. This gives the option of re-deciding if we want a non-glitch any%, or a 100%, or a "all aspects" run, or whatever category might be most appropriate.


1 2
5 6 7
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Omega wrote:
inichi wrote:
Also, I even tested the glitch on CT DS. The result was... please do not ask:)
Now you got me all interested. Was the game broken completely?
Well, not only a save file I tried, but also other two files were deleted. And I couldn't restore them. So luckily I got a brand-new cartridge again:) Speaking of DS version, lots of bugs existed in SNES version, such as pause menu skip, are fixed. So, maybe a kind of glitchless all side-quests run could be made in DS version because it probably wouldn't require any arbitrary restriction of using glitch.
Kuwaga wrote:
Shouldn't method 3, phase 3 read Hide 1 Null 1 Hide 1 Bronze 2 Null 2 Bronze 2 Null 0 Hide 1 Hide 1 Null 0 Bronze 2 Bronze 2 ?
Thanks, I fixed it.
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
This run is very impressive, and much more entertaining than Hero of the Day's run. I'm in favor of obsoletion in this case, because I don't think a non-glitched TAS of Chrono Trigger really has much to offer compared to a person playing the game in real time. Additionally
Inichi wrote:
the submission text is still incomplete. I think this is a bad thing. However, considering these facts:
  • Most part of the run is totally new stuff. So it would take a long time to cover them all, even in Japanese, my native language.
  • This is a long-term project; I started making the run in August 2007.
  • Chrono Trigger is a very popular RPG, and not a few people have been interested in how the run is going.
I thought it would be better to submit the run as fast as I could than to write up full texts and submit it. I will upload the rest of the submission texts little by little.
inichiさん、PMで日本語で説明すれば、僕は英語まで訳すには助けてあげられます…たぶん。
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 1/18/2008
Posts: 663
upthorn wrote:
I'm in favor of obsoletion in this case, because I don't think a non-glitched TAS of Chrono Trigger really has much to offer compared to a person playing the game in real time.
I agree, although I do think a non-save-glitch run would be very entertaining as well. I don't think "does not glitch SRAM" is too arbitrary... inichi did come up with some glitches that can be used that don't require SRAM molestation :)
true on twitch - lsnes windows builds 20230425 - the date this site is buried
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
inichi wrote:
Speaking of DS version, lots of bugs existed in SNES version, such as pause menu skip, are fixed. So, maybe a kind of glitchless all side-quests run could be made in DS version because it probably wouldn't require any arbitrary restriction of using glitch.
I am liking this idea. Let's obsolete the published movie and then leave the door open for a DS version.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Joined: 7/2/2007
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How's the conversion of the DS version? I'd hope it's better than the execrable Playstation one if it's going to get a serious run made for it.
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Sir_VG
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Derakon wrote:
How's the conversion of the DS version? I'd hope it's better than the execrable Playstation one if it's going to get a serious run made for it.
You don't have the 2 minute long load times, which is great for a start. But everything I've seen and played of the DS version is just as good as the SNES version.
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Two minute loading? On the PSX version of Chrono Trigger? I have played that on ePSXe almost all the way through and never noticed such thing... As far as I can tell it's a clone of the SNES version plus AMVs (which do not replace the original game animations). Even if you're mistaking Chrono Trigger with Chrono Cross, the latter didn't have loading problems either, just a weird story...
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I was a bit sarcastic about the loading times, but they're there (going in and out of the menu, especially). Depending on how you load the game on ePSXe you may not notice any since loading from an ISO is faster then from on the PS1 at 1-2x speed.
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For basically running a ROM through an emulator, the load times for the PSX version of CT were absurd. It took a good three seconds to load a battle, and hopefully I'm being optimistic. I haven't played it in some time, mainly because I can't find the disc, so I don't know the actual time offhand. When you compare it to FF4, which was packaged with CT and presumably uses the same ROM/emu method, FF4's load times were very close to the original SNES console. The only difference I saw was that if you left the game running for a while, at least in battle, the music would eventually fade out and restart from the beginning. Anyway, I'm voting yes for publication, but I'm torn as to whether it should obsolete the current run. Mario 64 has a 100% run so people can see the whole game done, but AFAIK this one doesn't. Seeing this game broken completely, then having the pieces pulverized is an awesome sight, but for the few out there who aren't familiar with it, they won't have a clue what the game is actually about.
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There was some discussion in the Site forum on keeping historically-interesting but obsoleted encodings around so that obsoletion wouldn't mean the "loss" of interesting movies. If that were to happen, then we could just include a link from this one to the previous any% TAS and all would be well, right?
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Except I don't really know why exactly do you need the old any%. Even inichi's test run is an hour faster.
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Sir VG wrote:
Derakon wrote:
How's the conversion of the DS version? I'd hope it's better than the execrable Playstation one if it's going to get a serious run made for it.
You don't have the 2 minute long load times, which is great for a start. But everything I've seen and played of the DS version is just as good as the SNES version.
Also, new dungeons, and uber-weapons. well, the fisrt one is boring as hell, but the second one is made of awesome and retcon.
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Inichi's test run was never submitted. It'd be pretty weird to link to a post in the forum when saying "If you want to see a run that plays more of the game, go here".
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You can link to the smv itself. It still makes more sense than promoting a run outdated in every possible respect. We've done that in the past more than once, the most recent example being 16-star SM64.
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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SXL wrote:
The youtube video just begs for annotations, Foda.
There are two options. I can give a youtube user the rights to add annotations, or I can read the now updated submission text, understand it and add it myself. The later can be done this weekend, no sooner.
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upthorn wrote:
inichiさん、PMで日本語で説明すれば、僕は英語まで訳すには助けてあげられます…たぶん。
お心遣いありがとうございます。upthornさんが日本語がお上手なことは、妖怪道中記の動画でupthornさんの字幕の素晴らしい出来を拝見した時から知っていました。おぼつかない英語で恐縮ですが、英語の勉強も兼ねているので、できるだけ英語で書いていきたいと思います。もし誤りや曖昧な表現等がありましたら、指摘してくだされば大変嬉しく思います。 Thank you for the offer. I'm afraid that my English is not so good, but this is also a chance of improving my English skills. So I think I'll try to write it in English as much as I could. I'd highly appreciate if you could point out a mistake or an ambiguous expression in the submission text. Also, I have known you are really good at Japanese since I watched the Youkai Douchuuki movie with your subtitle. It was awesome.
Derakon wrote:
How's the conversion of the DS version? I'd hope it's better than the execrable Playstation one if it's going to get a serious run made for it.
It's far better than the ugly PS port in every way. Loading time around battle is even shorter than the SNES one. Another good thing is that you can make all words appear at one time by just pressing the A button. Things are much different in the SNES version. For example, if a dialogue consists of 100 characters, you have to wait for 100 frames until all characters appear in the screen. I think this is a gigantic timesaver, especially considering how some cutscene in Chrono Trigger is heavily based on texts: Trial, Frog's flashback and so on. Now that DS TASing becomes possible, I think it might be a good idea to consider making a kind of glitchless all sidequests run in the DS version.
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inichi wrote:
...Another good thing is that you can make all words appear at one time by just pressing the A button. Things are much different in the SNES version. For example, if a dialogue consists of 100 characters, you have to wait for 100 frames until all characters appear in the screen. I think this is a gigantic timesaver, especially considering how some cutscene in Chrono Trigger is heavily based on texts: Trial, Frog's flashback and so on.
I don't like it so much in a TAS, though. Chrono trigger is my favorite game. Even though I know what happens and what is said, there is something about RPGs that require me to read the text :)
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Warp wrote:
Omega wrote:
The question being posed here is if this run, being so different in concept than the old one, warrants being placed in a category of its own. If the answer is yes, there's no need for it to obsolete the old run (since it's in a different category). It's not necessarily a quality issue in the first place.
OTOH it wouldn't be the first time a run in a different category "obsoletes" an existing run. I think it happened with LoZ:OoT. (But as I have been saying, these things should really be estimated on a per-game basis. Not all rules can be applied to all games.)
It's the same case of Castlevania CotM, isn't it? As long as I thought, both CotM and LttP maintained 2 versions of runs based on the "skip-a-lot" glitch. It's rather subjective and game-specific, but I think it's perfectly accepted on those cases. Games whose prior run differs signifficantly from the new one, in terms of technics AND visible progress, should deserve a new category. Of course, this should apply only on some few cases where BOTH progress and techical features are highly different)
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Post subject: Inichi vs Chrono Trigger
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Chrono Trigger is a game about altering the timeline. You win.
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1285] SNES Chrono Trigger "save glitch" by inichi in 21:23.98
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Nice screenshot. :P
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just one question: does this really obselete this one? If it is, I would greatly prefer to rename the old run as "glitchless"
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BadPotato wrote:
just one question: does this really obselete this one? If it is, I would greatly prefer to rename the old run as "glitchless"
If I get this right, the reason for obsoleting the old is mainly so we can decide what to do from here on. I think the fact it was outdated shouldn't have mattered, but if others are willing to start making a new run, it's all good to me as long as it won't be rejected for not being as fast as this run.
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Sir VG wrote:
Nice screenshot. :P
Thanks! If anyone is interested, here's the 20 screenshots that were considered.
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Comicalflop wrote:
Sir VG wrote:
Nice screenshot. :P
Thanks! If anyone is interested, here's the 20 screenshots that were considered.
I kind of liked this moment too (screenshot taken from the YouTube encode):
1 2
5 6 7