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Posted: 11/19/2008 10:47 PM
Post subject: Relationships and paranoia
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Hellfish
Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 48
Yes, I know, not a topic you might expect on this forum. That's why it's in off topic. No, I don't know why I post this to people I havn't and probably won't meet or know better. No, I don't know why you should care. So I've been together with this woman for almost a year now, we've lived together about 3 of those months.She moved 500 km for it. And as far as I can tell, I love her (AFAICT, 's my first *real* relationship of any sorts). I can hardly stand the thought that she's not celebrating christmas with me (but I respect and understand that she wants to celebrate it with her family). The thing is, since she moved so far, she don't have that many friends here, mostly people I knew beforehand, so she's chatting with peoples on some community sites.I don't mind her chatting,even with other guys, as long as they ain't flirting or nothing of course.So recently I... *caught* is kind of the wrong word since I'm not even sure something was going on... her seemingly showing herself off over the webcam. She gives me confused and somewhat contradictory excuses but assures me she did nothing. That's happened twice.It's further aggravated by how she recently got anxious about how and where chat logs are stored, and even more so when I asked why she'd wanna delete them. One more thing before my question; after the chat log debacle she's gone straight to getting some guys phone number from the community site.Messaging him for almost a whole day (He did flirt with her in the beginning, she let me read over her shoulder, but she "scolded" him for that in a subsequent message and now says she put him straight on that.) Thing is, this guy lives not 20 km away and apparently goes to the same school as her. Ok, wall of text over, the question: Am I right to be paranoid? I felt terrible about when she seemed to show herself off, and I feel terrible now because I actually read the chatlogs that are there(Nothing in them).Dear god I just don't want to lose her... In before "Emo post is emo" and "You should talk to her" (I already did, she assures me I'm wrong and thinks I want to control her. If I did, I wouldn't let her out of the house.I don't want to control her, but not lose her either..)
There is a whole new world beyond these walls. Break them down.
Posted: 11/19/2008 10:52 PM
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Baxter
Skilled player (1410)
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821
TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2013 Speedy TAS of 2007 Innovative TAS of 2007
I can't really answer your question... but there was one thing I really didn't understand... Why aren't you going with her to celebrate christmas?
http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html
Posted: 11/19/2008 10:54 PM
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Hellfish
Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 48
We can't afford the trip for both of us. Long story short, I'm already chipping in for just her.
There is a whole new world beyond these walls. Break them down.
Posted: 11/19/2008 11:06 PM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
Coming from somebody who has made (slightly) false accusations before... it's not a good idea to jump to these conclusions. Anything you see can be taken out of context. Luckily my other is very understanding. :) Exercise caution, but be firm, is all I can say.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 11/19/2008 11:13 PM
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Hellfish
Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 48
I agree with not jumping to conclusions, but it's like the first couple of things clogged the outlet. Now every little thing no matter how insignificant, just add to the paranoia instead of just pass through like they should. Sorry for the improvised analogy.
There is a whole new world beyond these walls. Break them down.
Posted: 11/19/2008 11:41 PM
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qFox
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
I may be paranoid myself, but may I suggest you remove the comment about logs? If she reads the forums she can certainly read where you post. If she reads that, she might get furious. Something about a womans privacy... Just a friendly warning. I'll edit this as well :p
qfox.nl
Posted: 11/19/2008 11:46 PM
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Hellfish
Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 48
I don't want to (have to) hide anything from her. She's asleep, but I will confess to her that I've read the logs later. Yes, she'll probably be furious, and rightfully so. I'm still not 100% sure I should have done it. (Especially since it proved nothing but paranoia)
There is a whole new world beyond these walls. Break them down.
Posted: 11/19/2008 11:49 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
While it's not good to jump to conclusions, if you caught her doing some funky things in front of a webcam, and she's very anxious about you seeing any sort of logs, she's flirting (at best), or screwing the guy (at worst). I would guess it's probably somewhere closer to flirting, and you're being a bit too paranoid, but something doesn't quite seem right. Proceed with caution. P.S. I've been there
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 11/20/2008 12:23 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
dude, what's wrong? nobody belongs to nobody... she might like you a lot, but you're not the last man on earth. that's not cheating, she's just having some fun... just live the life... I mean the real life... and do not read the other people's chat logs. especially if they belong to someone you say you "love".
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 11/20/2008 2:36 AM
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mz
Emulator Coder, Player (79)
Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 693
I agree with pirate_sephiroth here. It looks like you're being a bit possessive too much. I think we've all been like that on our first relationship, but still it's something really bad to do. Worrying so much will only make her leave you faster. :P Also, almost every girl who uses the internet has thousands of "online boyfriends", you have to get used to it. If you don't like it, try to get girls who aren't internet addicts from anywhere else...
You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.
Posted: 11/20/2008 6:57 AM
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Twelvepack
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
It depends on how much of a manipulative sociopath you are. Taking a step back and analyzing what outcomes you want, and making the right moves to bring them about is a simple matter, but take it from someone who has been there before: don't do it, it will bring you nothing but a world of shit. Acting like a manipulative asshole makes you become one (with time and practice). Don't snoop, don't plan your next move, don't play the angles. Confront the situation and be done with it. I don't mean to come off harsh, but I've been there, and I really don't like the way things turned out.
Has never colored a dinosaur.
Posted: 11/20/2008 7:51 AM
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Hellfish
Joined: 8/31/2006
Posts: 48
pirate_sephiroth, we have very differing views on relationships :P In all seriousness, though, thank you all for your advice. I'm gonna take it as having to wind down on the matter and have a little faith. Ask her directly about it and take her word for it. She's trusted me with alot, why shouldn't I trust her? I need a spa or something... mmbossman: Very cautious confrontation. I don't want noone to get hurt. Least of all her. mz: As I said, I have nothing against her chatting with other guys.I just don't like her flirting (Which she hasn't, so..). Twelvepack: *Looks up sociopath* Describes me perfectly about two years ago. Again, thank you all.
There is a whole new world beyond these walls. Break them down.
Posted: 11/20/2008 9:38 AM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
The worst thing you can do is be suspicious of someone, even if your suspicions are correct. You have to express trust and faith in someone, and expect the same treatment back in order to get anywhere. If she is cheating on you and betraying your trust, would you really want to keep her in the first place? Your time and emotions should be worth more to you than that. Don't love someone so much that you're willing to let them treat you like shit just so you won't be lonely. Women like to be treated as though they're special, but not worshipped, and the worst words you can ever say are, "I need you." You should show the utmost trust in her, but don't ever let yourself be walked on. If you suspect she's cheating on you, don't let it on that you suspect her of anything. And if you find that she is cheating on you in the end, recognize that you need to respect yourself more than to let her do that to you, and that you can always find someone else who can appreciate you more.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 11/20/2008 9:52 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
yeah, it's just that some people fail to notice that their partner is just another selfish human being... just like themselves.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 11/20/2008 10:00 AM
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upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (392)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
Sega TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TASer of 2007
My best guess as to what's going on is that she's trying to meet a new friend in the area, just like she told you she was. As someone who has been very insecure in past relationships, I can understand why you might be suspicious, but you have to figure if she moved 500km and gave up all her friends just to be with you, chances are she's not going to give you up that easily, so just relax a bit. Granted, that can be a bit difficult, so I'm going to give you some advice about how to handle this kind of thing in the future, based on what has worked for me: DO:
  • Talk to her when you are worried. Tell her that you're worried. Tell her that you trust her, but you're confused about why she did (whatever has you worried).
  • Believe what she says.
  • If what she did makes you uncomfortable even given that she's not up to anything, tell her that it makes you uncomfortable, tell her why it makes you uncomfortable, and see if you can work out a solution so you'll be comfortable, or she'll stop doing it.
DO NOT:
  • Do not go behind her back.
  • Do not read her email, her chat logs, or her diary, unless she shows them to you first.
  • Do not assume she's doing anything wrong.
  • Do not ask her to tell you the truth after she's already explained herself.
Asking the internet for advice like you did isn't likely to hurt anything, but it's also not terribly likely to help you either. First and foremost, though, what you should do is work on correcting your own tendencies of distrust. Relationships require honesty, communication, and trust from all involved people. They can also take a lot of work at times, but the result is worth it.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Posted: 11/20/2008 10:58 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Some of the advice in this thread is mind blowingly terrible. Wow. Sorry Hellfish, but she's looking for somebody to replace you with. Until she finds someone, she doesn't want to be alone, so she strings you along. This is completely standard behavior, especially for women, and while unfortunate, there's not much you can do about it now. The best think you can do is to end things and have her move out right now (she's going to be ok with the break-up but will want to stay living with you. Don't allow this), have your buddies take you out drinking a few weekends in a row, and in a month or two you'll be fine. Here's some advice for your coming relationships. Realize that we've all been there and made the same mistakes, so don't feel bad. You'll do better in the future. You need to stop being what is sometimes called pussy-whipped, or simply putting your woman's needs before your own. When you repeatedly allow yourself to be walked all over, it signals to her that you're weak and indecisive, and that it's ok to abuse you in whatever way she wants. This then leads to the ugliness you can see in your current relationship, where she doesn't respect you at all and thinks it's ok to lie to your face about things, and where she's using you for living space and saved rent until she finds somebody better for her. Somebody who acts like a man, to put it crudely. "Dear god I just don't want to lose her... " This is exactly the type of behavior you need to snap out of in the future. You can't let your woman control your emotions like this. It's ok to love someone and miss them when they leave or when things don't work out etc, of course, but if you're this dependent on her you're already way too pussy-whipped, leading to all sorts of ugliness as per above. Don't be a doormat for your next girlfriend, act decisive. A relationship is about mutual respect, it's not her calling every shot. The best piece of advice I read about this is from a book called "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida, which I can recommend to most of you in this thread btw, it's an interesting read. I don't have the book here, but the quote is something like "If you have a decision to make, you should listen to your woman's input with an open mind and love and respect, then you should do what you decide is best." Somewhat of a tangent of course, but I hope this advice will help you and you others in this thread in the future. Good luck with the current situation, ask away if you want more help with it.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 11/20/2008 11:16 AM
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Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
upthorn pretty much nailed it. If you don't trust your girlfriend, something is wrong on your part of the relationship. I don't think your "talking" was done right. The purpose of talking is not to blame someone, but to find a mutual understanding. Have you ever asked yourself why she might act like she does? She might be lonely after she left all her friends. She might need some balance in her life after you acted like a possessive control freak. She might be new to all this "serious relationship"-business and is looking for some kind of freedom (which isn't too nice, but not seldom either). Or it may be that she's missing something from you and looking somewhere else. I don't know, I'm just guessing. But YOU should know. Step back, think about it, think about what she told you, and try to get the bigger picture. Also, assume she hasn't done anything wrong yet, except getting hopelessly defensive after your accusations. While you're at it, think about everything you did and which of those actions were wrong or likely to hurt her or to push her away. If you really need to keep rubbing it in, the way for a talk to succeed is to start by explaining your point of view and admitting your own faults, not by confronting her with hers. The questions you should ask are "what could I do to solve the underlying problem?" or "help me understand you", not "what have you done wrong?". Oh, and give her time. Maybe she's just as confused about the situation as you are. But careful questions may get her to think about it, and if you give her some time, she may just have an answer for you. Oh, and most of all: listen to her.
m00
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:05 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Fabian wrote:
Sorry Hellfish, but she's looking for somebody to replace you with. Until she finds someone, she doesn't want to be alone, so she strings you along. This is completely standard behavior, especially for women, and while unfortunate, there's not much you can do about it now.
I can't resist the temptation of recommending this site: http://nomarriage.com/
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:20 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Heh, Fabian might be right in many respects, but it's not yet certain the situation is really that bad. In other words, it's indeed not the time to jump to conclusions. But seriously, even if a man has a girlfriend/fiancee/wife, does that stop him from having conversations with any other females he has known, or making new female acquaintainces? Seriously, does that? No, it doesn't, and never did. So should we expect girls to be different? Reportedly, confidence and trust are among the main traits women are looking for, and it also means you should consider solving your problems if/when they arise instead of letting the situation gradually degrade together with your mental health. Girls expect their boyfriends to be the men they could rely on, not martyrs, so don't act like one.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:24 PM
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superjupi
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
moozooh wrote:
confidence and trust are among the main traits women are looking for [...] Girls expect their boyfriends to be the men they could rely on, not martyrs
I can vouch for this.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:33 PM
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ZeXr0
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
What have to happen will happen. I know it's hard, but even if you love her more than anything, you won't be able to keep her if she don't want to. The best thing to do is to let the time goes. Let her do whatever she wants. If she goes away, then she was not the right girl for you. If she doesn't, then that means she loves you. In any case, you'd better know it know (when you are "young" if you are ?) than in 10 years when you'll have a house and some kids. In these case, you can't do anything. (Or you can install a little software that takes screen shot every x seconds, you'll see exactly want she does) but I wouldn't recommand you this approach. Living together means respect ans trust each other.
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:38 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
moozooh, this chick is webcam chatting ("showing herself off") with guys in the area, giving out phone numbers to guys and text messaging with them for an entire day. She gives confused and contradictory excuses about it and wants to hide chat logs. Come on man, if you feel this is not a time to jump to conclusions, you're as oblivious as half the 16 year olds in this thread. Accepting that kind of behavior just because you'd miss her so much if you guys broke up is another perfect example of unacceptable behavior on your part.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:48 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Don't forget that Hellfish could also exaggerate some details due to his anxiety.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 11/20/2008 3:56 PM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
moozooh wrote:
Don't forget that Hellfish could also exaggerate some details due to his anxiety.
From experience, I'd say his anxiety has put him in denial that the chick is, in fact, stringing him along. This kind of "paranoia" isn't paranoia; it's common sense having a head-on collision with something you don't want to accept as reality.
Posted: 11/20/2008 5:49 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I think Drom is basically dead on so I won't say anything else.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
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