Emulator: mupen64 re-recording edition V0.5.0
Graphics plugin: glN64 v0.4.1
Sound plugin: Jabo's DirectSound 1.6
Input plugin: TAS Input Plugin 0.6 (make sure mempack is turned on, or the movie will not synch)
RSP plugin: RSP emulation Plugin
Note: If the game does not look correct with the gln video plugin, use Direct64. Not all video cards work correctly with gln.
Note: Loading the run from a savestate will result in a desynch during the Twinrova battle. The cause of this is unknown.

Comments

This run aims to complete all dungeons/temples/Ganon trials as quickly as possible. I originally had the idea of TASing this run to see what kind of time could be achieved in an all temples/trials run which implements the recently discovered "TAS-only" tricks that wouldn't be seen in a modern any% run. One key element in this run is the use of sidehopping over backwalking, which has been proven faster in most cases. Supersliding is also one method of travel used over the current published run and is the fastest form of travel over long distances. The initial goal was to achieve sub-3:30, but with more tricks being discovered throughout the run I was able to achieve sub-3:00. A lot of hard work was put into this project, so overall, I'm very happy with the outcome of this run.

Common tricks and glitches used throughout the run

Superflipping

  • By shielding damage during a roll you can achieve a much longer distance with a precisely-timed backflip.

Supersliding

  • By rolling into a bomb and grabbing it/shielding the explosion, you can slide at a very fast speed. This is the fastest method of travel over long distances.

Infinite Sword Glitch

  • Interacting with an object while crouchstabbing will cause the sword to attack infinitely.

Bomb(chu) Hovering

  • If an explosive (or any damage) is shielded after a backflip/sidehop while the Infinite Sword Glitch is activated, you can gain distances in the air.
Note: Sidehopping as an adult is still fastest in most cases. Although the maximum speed of backwalking as an adult is faster than sidehopping, the slow acceleration of backwalking makes sidehopping faster in almost every case.

General Notes on the Run

Rupee Route

  • The main improvement over the previous rupee route is manipulating rupees from the plants outside of the sword maze. This allowed for a more direct path to the shop.

Inside the Deku Tree

  • A skulltulla boost through the vine wall made it possible to skip the first basement level and fall down to the room right before Queen Gohma. This trick skipped about half of the Deku Tree.

Spirit Temple as a Child

  • Superflips were used off of the enemies in the bridge room which skipped having to lower the bridge.

Dodongo's Cavern

  • Using bombchus allows for being able to complete Dodongo's Cavern without the Goron Bracelet. This has been proven faster than getting the Silver Gauntlets from the Spirit Temple in order to pick up bomb flowers.
  • A bombchu superflip was used instead of bombchu hovering to get the bombs early. This saved about 15 seconds.
  • Bomb hovering was used to skip to the block early and skip a large portion of the dungeon.

On the way to Hyrule Castle

  • A bottle is required for later in the game, and the cucco collecting is the fastest way to obtain one. Lots of manipulation was used on the cuccos to do this optimally.
  • A superslide was used to skip the owl outside of Kakariko instead of the standard slingshot/stick trick. This also allowed for a quick, straight path to the Market.
  • Zelda's Lullaby was learned at Hyrule Castle because it was required to complete most of the temples.

Pre- Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly

  • Picking up a cucco at Zora's River made it possible to skip playing Zelda's Lullaby at the waterfall.
  • By using a superflip off of a bombchu, it is possible to skip bomb hovering over King Zora. This trick saves about 20 seconds.
Note: A faster strategy was recently discovered in Zora's River that involved superflipping past the waterfall. This would save time by not needing to carry the cucco.

Inside Jabu Jabu's Belly

Note: The main path through the dungeon remained the same as the currently-published run, but a couple of tricks were used which resulted in it being much faster.
  • A superflip was used in the elevator room instead of using bombchus/bomb hovering. This saved a couple of seconds in the room, and also allowed for use of those explosives elsewhere.
  • In the room before Barinade, a bombchu was placed precisely to quickly activate the switch without having to climb the wall.

Pre- Temple of Time

  • After warping to the Desert Collosus, I plant the bean for use later in the game and use a deathwarp to return to Kokiri Forest.

Pre- Shadow Temple

  • The newly discovered superslide warp glitch was used to enter the Shadow Temple. With the infinite sword glitch activated, it was made possible to reach the graveyard boundaries and enter the temple.

Shadow Temple

  • The Dead Hand was quickly defeated. This had to do with what frame he was last hit on. Had it been any earlier or later, he would've began a second cycle.
  • Instead of equipping the Hover Boots to clear the void, a bomb damage boost was used, which saved pausing twice to equip/unequip the Hover Boots.
  • A jumpslash through the fence skipped the majority of the Shadow Temple. This method is faster than using a superslide because it avoided pausing twice.
Note: Implementing a superflip would have saved a second or two over the damage boost.

Forest Temple

  • Instead of using a damage boost to skip the block room, it was possible, with precise angling, to use only the Hover Boots. This was much faster than the previous method, as it skipped two pause screens and a bomb.
  • A recently-discovered method to skip the Boss Key was used to reach Phantom Ganon without entering the basement or defeating any Poes. A superflip was implemented here to enter the boss room's loading zone, instead of the original superslide hover, which overall, saved two pauses.

Pre- Fire Temple

  • A much faster method to climb Death Mountain was used, instead of the old method of climbing the wall or going around the back side of the mountain. This saved around 15 seconds.
  • The Fairy Fountain is visited before the Fire Temple, because it is faster than going out of the way as a child to get to it, and it was on the way to the Fire Temple, anyway.
  • A superflip was used to just barely clear the lava pit in Death Mountain Crater. This saved two pauses over the other method for skipping the Beloro of Fire, which involved either a rock boost or a superslide hover.

Fire Temple

  • An issue in the Fire Temple was being able to get enough hearts when/where to be able to complete each room successfully without the Fire Tunic. Manipulating a bat to drop hearts in the lobby allowed the following room to barely be completed.
  • In the boulder maze, bomb hovering was used to reach the level above. This trick allowed for skipping multiple keys and rooms.
  • After obtaining the megaton hammer, it was possible to jump down and hit the switch directly with a precise time/angle. This was faster than jumping across to hit the switch, and it also looks much cooler.
  • By shooting Volvagia with just enough arrows, it was possible to quickly defeat Volvagia without the time running out due to not having the Fire Tunic. After the fight, the last bit of health was lost 6 frames before the portal cut scene activated. This allowed for a very fast deathwarp after the Fire Temple, as all health was gone upon being teleported back to Death Mountain Crater.

Pre-Water Temple

  • A lot of methods were considered to enter the Water Temple without the Iron Boots. The original hookshot/ocarina method ended up being the fastest.

Water Temple

  • Even though it was assumed possible to bomb hover through the boss door, a method was never actually discovered. After a lot of testing, a method was found, which saved around 90% of the temple. The method was to use short enough bomb hovers with the hover boots on, to stay close enough to the door to be able to jumpslash through it.

Pre-Spirit Temple

  • Getting the Fire Arrows after the Water Temple was necessary for completing the Forest and Shadow Ganon Trials. This was a much faster route than getting Din's Fire, and also saved a lot of time in the trials.
  • The bean planted in Desert Collosus as a child was used to go straight to the mirror shield. With a specifically-angled superslide, and correct timing of removing the Hover Boots, it was possible to land right on the top of the last seam.

Spirit Temple

  • Intensive manipulation was used during the Koume/Kotake battle, which forced one of them to stay in position for the entire duration of the first part of the battle. This allowed for her to continue attacking at the fastest possible rate while the other one could continue being attacked.
  • During the boss fight, bombs were used to slowly drain health. A final bomb is used while entering the portal to lose the last bit of health and use a deathwarp, just like the one after the Fire Temple.

Ganon's Castle

Note: Although there are a lot of pauses in the trials, it is still the minimum number of required pauses.
  • A superslide hover from the Torch Slug on the far platform in the Fire Trial allowed me to get to the exit in a much faster time. This allowed me to skip having to get a fairy to survive without the Fire Tunic.
  • During the castle escape some areas are very laggy but the amount of lag was minimized by various inputs such as holding Z and/or standing still.
  • By supersliding into the Ganon cut scene, the Master Sword was still useable. With the Master Sword, the first cycle is completable in three hits.

With thanks to...

Swordless Link, for constantly watching WIPs and looking for improvements. Also, for being a huge inspiration to do this run in the first place.

Any glitch-finders that helped find glitches used throughout the run.


mmbossman: Despite it's length, this run has received some very positive feedback from the viewers, and looks to be well done. The goals seem to be a little arbitrary, but they were discussed beforehand in the Ocarina of Time discussion thread, and they are easy enough to define, so I believe they warrant a new category.
However, the main question that has popped up is whether this should obsolete Guanobowl's run. After reviewing the thread a couple of times, and asking for various opinions on IRC, I still cannot find a significantly convincing argument to promote obsoletion. This run has entirely different goals than an 'any%' completion, and while it does contain an amount of similar material to the published run, there are enough differences present to warrant publication alongside the current run. Many of the arguments have centered around excuses to try and circumvent our current rule that prevents movies from being "unpublished", which I do not support.
Perhaps this decision will provide motivation to make a true 'any%' run update sooner rather than later. As for this run, I'm accepting it as an new "All temples and trials" category, to be published alongside the current any% run.

Bisqwit: Encoding… (It will take several days.) I'm not hereby deciding the obsoletion matter, though.


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nfq
Player (94)
Joined: 5/10/2005
Posts: 1204
Acheron86 wrote:
So, voting "no" because a movie's boring to you at that point isn't wrong, because it does answer the question of "did you enjoy this movie"
i think we should give it a yes vote if it was good back then. i know a swedish gaming magazine that had a top 100 list with the best games ever made, and it had tetris #1 because it was so good back then (it even beat ocarina of time).
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
nfq wrote:
i don't see the point with an AVI without the cutscenes. if you don't wanna watch them just skip them... you know... move your mouse to the seek bar and click..
Cutscenes aren't all the same length. And it's not like a separate avi is being made. it's an option within one video file because technology is awesome like that. Open up video, and watch 2 hours and 59 minutes, -or- click "Edition 2" and watch 1 hour and 50 minutes (both include 11-minute ending) so you don't have to seek around. Hopefully simple, not annoying, and really easy to ignore for people who don't care and want to watch the nabooru talk forever and have all like 40 pause screens take 7 seconds each :P
Joe
Joined: 6/10/2006
Posts: 152
Location: Wisconsin
bkDJ wrote:
You guys don't get it. the first hour is not what is interesting about this run and you should stop rewatching it if you find it boring. Most of it has been seen in previous runs. It's the adult portion (beginning at around 1h15m in, chapter entitled "Light Medalion") that is the most entertaining (well, except maybe the water temple, but still).
Actually, I agree with this. I found little interesting in the child portion outside of a few odds and ends primarily because little differs from the published run. Once the Adult portion starts, I got to see a lot more interesting tricks done in the game that I've never seen before. It was a hoot to see the Fire Temple beated without the Fire Tunic as well as the bizarre time-saving trick of having Link die the moment he collects the Medallions. Also, I don't mind game-breaking glitches. Seeing the game played normally isn't particularly interesting, especially considering Hyrule Field takes an enormouse amount of time to cross without this excellent bomb/shield glitch. I also actually liked seeing Link zip through the Water Temple and actually THROUGH the boss door without a key. Those hover boots really helped skip huge sections of the dungeons I also agree that it's very unnecessary to have it published without the cutscenes first of all because there is input being done in the game at that time and secondly because it's much easier to skip them in a video file.
Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 71
I've said this on IRC; Optimal =/= Entertaining. I respect everyone's vote but I have this to say. Not everyone likes the same style of TAS but I think it's factual that this run is worthy of being on this site whether or not you personally would find it appealing to watch. Isn't that the point of the votes? To see if the site thinks its worthy of being on the site due to optimal performance? It's not a video/game-enjoyment survey. What makes this run entertaining to some is the fact that Ocarina of Time is in fact, a VERY slow-paced game. So, believe it or not, to us OoT speed run fans, it's a pleasure to watch this slow-paced run (including the cut scenes for added nostalgia) because it's just further proof of how much you can simplify a game that's supposed to be a childhood-long adventure.
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Acheron86 wrote:
So, voting "no" because a movie's boring to you at that point isn't wrong, because it does answer the question of "did you enjoy this movie"...
I have always hated how people opportunistically interpret that question more literally or less literally depending on which better suits their opinion. I understand the spirit of the question to mean "is this movie good enough for it to be published, or should it be rejected?" In other words, even though you might not have enjoyed a movie too much, it may still be publish-worthy, and people who vote should judge whether it should be published, not so much *literally* "did you like it a lot?" The significance of the question "is this movie good enough to be published" gets a special meaning when someone submits a movie which ought to obsolete an existing publication. In this case the question is "is this movie good enough to be published, and is it *better* than the existing publication?". And again, even if you didn't like the movie a lot, you could still judge whether it's better than the existing movie and whether the new one should obsolete it or not. But of course people will stick to the literal meaning of that question when it fits better their mood and opinion. Can't that question be finally changed to "should this movie be published"? It would better avoid this problem.
jaysmad
Other
Experienced player (933)
Joined: 12/1/2006
Posts: 629
Location: Mom's
My favorite childhood game, is FFIII for snes and i did not watch the whole TAS but maybe someday, i will so the fact that it is published, and all, is always good for someone who feels like watching the damn thing. someone who hasnt seen the whole movie, because of the lenght, should not vote or just say "meh" unless he or she noticed something that could be faster.
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
Warp wrote:
Can't that question be finally changed to "should this movie be published"? It would better avoid this problem.
Or maybe it could just be eliminated entirely. Aside from perhaps a "quick" way to tell how a submission is going, I don't really see the benefit, especially considering the drawbacks of tempting viewers to reduce their feedback to just one syllable, political/ego voting, and ongoing confusion about the poll's intent. But that's just me... hey, maybe we could start a poll to see how people feel about the poll! Vote only after voting on a submission! ;)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Skilled player (1444)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
alden wrote:
Or maybe it could just be eliminated entirely. Aside from perhaps a "quick" way to tell how a submission is going, I don't really see the benefit, especially considering the drawbacks of tempting viewers to reduce their feedback to just one syllable, political/ego voting, and ongoing confusion about the poll's intent. But that's just me... hey, maybe we could start a poll to see how people feel about the poll! Vote only after voting on a submission! ;)
Yeah only having written explanations on why you vote yes/no/meh seems a lot better, just a bit more laborsome for the judges.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272
i originally was in favor of this run replacing the current run. i retract that. the two runs have different goals. and Guano's will be undone eventually. i know it's way out of date, but that really isn't a good reason for wanting to get rid of it asap.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
To clarify, I think the problem comes from the way the question is phrased. If someone asks me if I like a run, I say yes, meh, or no. That's a question of personal taste. There's some runs which I think are amazingly done, but I don't enjoy watching them personally. If I said "meh" or "no" I have answered it accurately. So, I guess I think it's not the right question to ask. I think "should this movie be published" might be a better one, but I'm still fairly new here and I imagine this has been discussed plenty, so I'm sure that idea's come up as well.
jaysmad wrote:
someone who hasnt seen the whole movie, because of the lenght, should not vote or just say "meh" unless he or she noticed something that could be faster.
I think this is a pretty good point, actually. An obvious exception can be made for improvements of runs you've already seen, of course, but if you're not willing to watch the parts that have been changed, you shouldn't really bother voicing your opinion, because you're not informed on how the run is different than the original publication. I think alden's suggestion might be better overall though. Hrm.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Player (100)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Right now I'm getting the impression people are trying to disregard the importance of entertainment value in a run, and that the optimization of the run is the only criterion for publication. From the site;
Vaguely speaking, not every game in existence is good. Similarly, not all games have potential for entertaining TASes from a viewer standpoint. Select those games which give you a chance to make a TAS that entertains viewers. Just because a game is popular, difficult, or is entertaining to play or run or TAS, does not necessarily mean that it is entertaining to watch. If a game is a good game to TAS, it should be possible to adhere to the guidelines: The game should give an impression of complexity; it should not be overly easy or straightforward. There should be enough variety to entertain. It should not have, say, 10% of it entertaining and 90% boring. It should not be too long. A TAS of the game can be distinguished enough from a non-assisted run. It should not be unimpressive (for example, a chess TAS is often unimpressive). It should be able to have clear goals such as completion. It should not be a bad game in the first place, such that it distracts the viewers. As an example of a bad game choice, see Front Line (this example is not an intention to mock anyone, as the author not only acknowledges how bad it is, but enjoys such fact).
If you look at the ratings for a published movie, the score is always the average of a quality and entertainment score. So, when you see people voting no because they found the movie boring, that seems like a respectable decision based on the site rules + objectives, and something I can largely agree with. That being said, I'd hardly call this game a bad choice for TASing. Despite the sheer volume of cutscenes and somewhat slow nature of the game, there is still so much to appreciate in terms of tricks + optimizations, and I'll once again repeat I voted yes based on being impressed with what I watched in 15-30 minute intervals.
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Vykan12 wrote:
Right now I'm getting the impression people are trying to disregard the importance of entertainment value in a run, and that the optimization of the run is the only criterion for publication.
I don't see that at all. I've seen people state their opinion regarding whether they liked the run or not, and various other people try to discredit those opinions without any reason to. As for the run, I finally got around to watching it. While there were some pretty interesting glitches/tricks in the adult segment, it wasn't nearly the "you're going to wet your pants" type run that I was expecting from many of the comments in this thread. This has nothing to do with the technical accomplishment of the run; it was obviously very well planned out and executed. I just found it hard to sit through a 3 hour long TAS without feeling bored at times. However, I was moderately entertained throughout most of it, and will give it a yes. Had this not been my favorite game to play as a kid, I would have been bored to tears, as many of the other recent posters have been. It's a typical problem with RPGs (and yes, this is an action RPG, no matter what anyone tells you), and I'm not surprised there have been some people who couldn't sit through the whole thing, and found it uninteresting. That's just how things go with long runs like this. Sometimes it helps to have played the game. In any case, I'd like to say excellent work to Bloobiebla, and please make another run, I can tell you have a very good gift for TASing. On another note, I still haven't heard any good reasons for obsoletion of Guano's run... speak soon, or forever hold your peace. On yet another note, if you listen carefully when adult link is sidehopping, it sounds like he's saying "SKANK! SKANK!" repeatedly. That gave me quite a chuckle.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Satoryu wrote:
i originally was in favor of this run replacing the current run. i retract that. the two runs have different goals. and Guano's will be undone eventually. i know it's way out of date, but that really isn't a good reason for wanting to get rid of it asap.
Didn't someone suggest that the existing movie could be "unpublished" at the same time as this one is published? Although in practice this movie "obsoletes" the existing one, technically speaking it doesn't obsolete it, but stays on its own separate category. It's simply that the existing one is removed because it's known to be highly suboptimal. When a new run using the same category as the currently published one is submitted, it will not obsolete this one (ie the one which this thread is about). (Man, how confusing that paragraph turned out to be. I hope you got what I mean.)
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
A solution like that would open up a very, very large can of worms, especially when it comes to unpublishing other runs. If Guano's run can be unpublished due to being grossly improvable, what's to stop people from requesting other runs be unpublished due to being grossly unentertaining? Bisqwit has said many times that once a run is published, it becomes a permanent piece of the archive ("member of the family" is the wording he used, IIRC). Guano's run is outdated, yes, but so is Metroid 100%, and no one seems to be clamoring for that run to be unpublished or other nonsense.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Player (121)
Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522
This movie shouldn't obsolete the old one, because it has different goals. If we want to get rid of the old one so bad, we should make a "high quality" any% movie... which is being done (at some rate). If you argue that Guano's doesn't show current tricks, well, this one doesn't show all of them either :)
I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
bkDJ wrote:
You guys don't get it. the first hour is not what is interesting about this run and you should stop rewatching it if you find it boring. Most of it has been seen in previous runs. It's the adult portion (beginning at around 1h15m in, chapter entitled "Light Medalion") that is the most entertaining (well, except maybe the water temple, but still).
Zurreco wrote:
...I was actually able to watch it all the way through, and I regret doing so. This game is just boring.
I don't get it, I guess. I watched it through and found it to be wholly uninteresting. The fact that the intro segment was extra boring doesn't mean the rest of it was better by default. "Most entertaining" does not connote entertaining. I think it is really ridiculous for you to say "hey guys, the first third of the movie is repetitive and boring like the old runs, but there are portions of the other two thirds that aren't boring! Therefore, stop focusing on the huge chunk at the beginning of the run that wasn't good at all and focus on the good parts of the latter only." If there are noticeable points of un-entertainment in a run, especially to this magnitude, they are a legit point of contention.
nfq wrote:
suddenly everyone starts voting no/meh just because one did it, as if they were too afraid to do it before, lol.
Actually, a lot of people just ignored the submission because anyone who was talking about it was giving the stereotypical "OoT is the best and it should replace every run on the site" statements. I wouldn't have watched this if I didn't catch a "my god that new OoT run was even more boring than the last" comment in IRC, which caught my attention. Also,
nfq wrote:
i think we should give it a yes vote if it was good back then.
Stop talking.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 4/30/2007
Posts: 150
Warp wrote:
Acheron86 wrote:
So, voting "no" because a movie's boring to you at that point isn't wrong, because it does answer the question of "did you enjoy this movie"...
I have always hated how people opportunistically interpret that question more literally or less literally depending on which better suits their opinion. I understand the spirit of the question to mean "is this movie good enough for it to be published, or should it be rejected?" In other words, even though you might not have enjoyed a movie too much, it may still be publish-worthy, and people who vote should judge whether it should be published, not so much *literally* "did you like it a lot?" The significance of the question "is this movie good enough to be published" gets a special meaning when someone submits a movie which ought to obsolete an existing publication. In this case the question is "is this movie good enough to be published, and is it *better* than the existing publication?". And again, even if you didn't like the movie a lot, you could still judge whether it's better than the existing movie and whether the new one should obsolete it or not. But of course people will stick to the literal meaning of that question when it fits better their mood and opinion. Can't that question be finally changed to "should this movie be published"? It would better avoid this problem.
one of the funniest and most intelligent posts ive ever seen here i award you six out of seven cookies with chocolate chips and one additional topping at no extra charge
Banned User
Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone
I thought this movie would be pre-published since an alternate (video) is already seeded outside tasvideos.org. I am sure there's a big difference between those that are published and those that are not.
Joined: 10/15/2007
Posts: 685
Warp wrote:
Can't that question be finally changed to "should this movie be published"? It would better avoid this problem.
Part of me wants to agree with this, but the rest of me doesn't see a point. It's been stated clearly that some games really aren't suited to TASing, just due to the fact that they're incredibly boring to watch. You may have completed a game in record time, very cleanly and with a precision that would go unchallenged, but if the movie itself is boring, tedious, and overall not the slightest bit enjoyable to watch, what's the point in publishing it? Is it just to say, "this is the record, folks, nobody has ever made a faster line from start to finish"? If that's the case, what's the point in even voting? Let the bot see how long the video is, and if it beats the previous submission with the same goals, up it goes. If the only question is, "should this be published?" then you could supply any reason you wanted for publication. If you thought a run should be published because the author had the A button depressed for 20976 frames, which can be parsed as your birthday, you could cite that as your reason. If you think it should be published because it's a Zelda run, and all Zelda runs should be accepted, then that's your reason. Doesn't do much for quality control. At least if you're asking the viewer if they were entertained, the judges have something slightly more cut and dry to go by. And if someone wasn't entertained by this movie, then they weren't entertained. Maybe they find sidehopping obnoxious, or unskippable cinematics the bane of modern gaming. They weren't entertained, there's nothing to argue, it's a purely subjective matter of opinion.
Kirby said so, so it must be true. ( >'.')>
Joined: 4/29/2008
Posts: 71
mmbossman wrote:
Vykan12 wrote:
Right now I'm getting the impression people are trying to disregard the importance of entertainment value in a run, and that the optimization of the run is the only criterion for publication.
I don't see that at all. I've seen people state their opinion regarding whether they liked the run or not, and various other people try to discredit those opinions without any reason to. As for the run, I finally got around to watching it. While there were some pretty interesting glitches/tricks in the adult segment, it wasn't nearly the "you're going to wet your pants" type run that I was expecting from many of the comments in this thread. This has nothing to do with the technical accomplishment of the run; it was obviously very well planned out and executed. I just found it hard to sit through a 3 hour long TAS without feeling bored at times. However, I was moderately entertained throughout most of it, and will give it a yes. Had this not been my favorite game to play as a kid, I would have been bored to tears, as many of the other recent posters have been. It's a typical problem with RPGs (and yes, this is an action RPG, no matter what anyone tells you), and I'm not surprised there have been some people who couldn't sit through the whole thing, and found it uninteresting. That's just how things go with long runs like this. Sometimes it helps to have played the game. In any case, I'd like to say excellent work to Bloobiebla, and please make another run, I can tell you have a very good gift for TASing. On another note, I still haven't heard any good reasons for obsoletion of Guano's run... speak soon, or forever hold your peace. On yet another note, if you listen carefully when adult link is sidehopping, it sounds like he's saying "SKANK! SKANK!" repeatedly. That gave me quite a chuckle.
I appreciate your contrary opinion but I still have to disagree with that. I think optimization should always come before entertainment because optimization is factual and is a more fair criteria to base your publication decision on rather than entertainment. If people don't find a run entertaining than they can always just not watch it but if we have outsiders coming to the site craving for a dose of OoT speed. They'll have it. I don't consider a TAS to be a source of video entertainment (as much as it is). It's always been appealing to me as a benchmark of current knowledge for any title at that point in time. It's a way to tell how fast something is possible, no questions asked. Although OoT is a boring game to watch through in one sitting, it's there to show you that it's even a possibility to watch a classic epic adventure game in one sitting which not too long ago, was an alien concept. It's great to make a run entertaining, don't get me wrong. But, I think it shouldn't over prioritize optimization. EDIT: Post meant to adress Vykan12's claim.
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Satyrium wrote:
I appreciate your contrary opinion but I still have to disagree with that. I think optimization should always come before entertainment because optimization is factual and is a more fair criteria to base your publication decision on rather than entertainment. If people don't find a run entertaining than they can always just not watch it but if we have outsiders coming to the site craving for a dose of OoT speed. They'll have it. I don't consider a TAS to be a source of video entertainment (as much as it is). It's always been appealing to me as a benchmark of current knowledge for any title at that point in time. It's a way to tell how fast something is possible, no questions asked. Although OoT is a boring game to watch through in one sitting, it's there to show you that it's even a possibility to watch a classic epic adventure game in one sitting which not too long ago, was an alien concept. It's great to make a run entertaining, don't get me wrong. But, I think it shouldn't over prioritize optimization.
You cannot optimize this nontuplet run any farther. Wonder why this was rejected..
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
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I guess I was under the impression that the vote represented something more than a simple reflection of preference. It looks like that was an incorrect misinterpretation, so my apologies.
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I see that you think this:
Satyrium wrote:
I think optimization should always come before entertainment because optimization is factual and is a more fair criteria to base your publication decision on rather than entertainment.
because of this:
Satyrium wrote:
I don't consider a TAS to be a source of video entertainment
I'm not going to argue, because that's your opinion. But from observing for the past 2 or so years, I know that at least 80-90% of the people who watch these movies do so to be entertained, not so that they know exactly how fast game X can be played (especially not for lesser known games).
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mmbossman wrote:
A solution like that would open up a very, very large can of worms, especially when it comes to unpublishing other runs.
I'm getting really tired of this current trend of shooting down all possible improvement suggestions with either a slippery slope argumentation or the tired "it would only cause disagreements" argument. I disagree. Just because one video is unpublished will *not* open any can of worms. If someone requests unpublishing something else "because that Zelda run was also unpublished" you simply answer to him "that was an exception", and if he protests, just ignore him. Again: Since when has this website converted into a nazi regime where every rule is absolutely strict and no exceptions are allowed, ever?
superjupi wrote:
It's been stated clearly that some games really aren't suited to TASing, just due to the fact that they're incredibly boring to watch.
A perfect example of where the "should this movie be published?" question applies perfectly. The answer is: No, it should not be published because it's a very bad game choice.
If the only question is, "should this be published?" then you could supply any reason you wanted for publication. If you thought a run should be published because the author had the A button depressed for 20976 frames, which can be parsed as your birthday, you could cite that as your reason.
You are joking, right? That's fine, but I was being serious.
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Warp wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
A solution like that would open up a very, very large can of worms, especially when it comes to unpublishing other runs.
I'm getting really tired of this current trend of shooting down all possible improvement suggestions with either a slippery slope argumentation or the tired "it would only cause disagreements" argument. I disagree. Just because one video is unpublished will *not* open any can of worms. If someone requests unpublishing something else "because that Zelda run was also unpublished" you simply answer to him "that was an exception", and if he protests, just ignore him. Again: Since when has this website converted into a nazi regime where every rule is absolutely strict and no exceptions are allowed, ever?
You act like you're the first one to suggest unpublication. You're not. It's been brought up multiple times before, and been shot down before, by the administrator of the site. I, for one, am actually in favor of it for various games, but unless you can convince Bisqwit that it should be a viable option, you're just reviving old arguments. I especially dislike this line: I disagree. Just because one video is unpublished will *not* open any can of worms. If someone requests unpublishing something else "because that Zelda run was also unpublished" you simply answer to him "that was an exception", and if he protests, just ignore him. We should ignore him, unless of course, it's you? And if I were to ignore you, you'd just start complaining about the Nazi regime here? Great system there, Warp.
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