I've watched it, thanks to Hanzou, and it looks really nice!! Too bad there's a lot "watch my hand throwing something" animations in Crash Man's stage...
But still, very very good!
Comparing the scrolling trick and regular path in Wily2. Observe, that the scrolling trick costs about 38 frames.
Incidentally, that is precisely the same number of frames BisqBot had to idle inside the wall to make it happen.
Thus, even in the best case, it would not be faster than the regular way.
Demonstrates an effecient way of acquiring a weapon refill in Wily2. Two aspects are at core here:
1. Shooting the leaves to the left, so that they disappear faster (weapon switch is not possible while they are on screen)
2. Creating a situation so that the refill zips through the wall to far ahead location, so that Rockman can walk to catch it, utilizing effectively the time that must be waited before weapon switch is possible.
Demonstrates that despite the strategy mentioned above, there's still some trouble in the refill. Namely, when the weapons are switched, the enemies regenerate in the wall. Observe, that they did not regenerate when weapons were not switched.
Compared three different methods of playing a part of the Wily2 stage.
* Left: Two item1s for elevation, one for avoiding damage, then take damage.
* Middle: Two item1s for elevation, use Flash stopper. It is 8 frames faster than on the Left.
* Right: One item1 for elevation, two for avoiding damage. It is 49 frames faster than on the Middle.
Ninja master Finalfighter pointed out that Shinryuu's method of playing in this location (shown on the left) was not perfect.
I applied Finalfighter's suggestion (on the middle) and improved it further (on the right).
Compared four different methods of playing the end part of the Wily4 stage.
* Top-left: Utilizing item1slight technique. Cost: (1+3)xitem1. Gain: 18 frames.
* Top-right: Utilizing item1boost technique. Cost: (1+3)xitem1. Gain: 4 frames.
* Bottom-left: Normal item1-zipping technique. Cost: (1+2)xitem1. Gain: 0 frames.
* Bottom-right: Saving item1s, using item3s instead. Gain: about −60 frames.
The frame numbers were in comparison to Finalfighter &co's movie.
Note that according to the item1-usage plans below, we can only afford three item1s here (1+2).
In response to Hanzou's idea -- demonstrating the difference of taking or not taking refill in Wily3.
On the top, regular way. On the bottom, refill way.
The refill way is 98 frames slower.
If you were a rich man and had lots of Item1s, what would you do? Turns out, this is not what you should do.
It is 14 frames slower this way than the Item3-way that Finalfighter demonstrated in this stage, Wily4.
Item1-usage
The item1 power meter has power for 14 item1s in total.
A big refill restores the power of 5 item1s.
Finalfighter and Morimoto's movie goes as follows:
* In Wily1:
** Use 1+1+2+3+3, 4 remain.
* In Wily2:
** Refill 10, now 14 remain.
** Use 2+1, 11 remain.
* In Wily3:
** Use 1. 10 remain.
* In Wily4:
** Use 1+3+1+2, 3 remain.
* In Wily5:
** Use 3, 0 remain.
Our plan goes as follows:
* In Wily1:
** Use 1+1+3+1+3+3, 2 remain.
* In Wily2:
** Refill 10, now 12 remain.
** Use 2+1, 9 remain.
** Refill 5, now 14 remain.
** Use 1+2, 11 remain.
* The rest, as Finalfighter and Morimoto did.
Where can we get more Item1s? It would be useful to have them in Wily3 and Wily4.
[Edit: updated links]
only two places with even a remote chance of providing worthwhile refills... second spot is in Wily3, where finalfighter takes damage. Part of the time lost from an extra weapon switch would be made up for by not getting hit. All other refill opportunities seem to require at least two extra weapon switches, which is unlikely to pay off.
Did you try a refill from that enemy? If even that one takes too much time, then it seems there are no other options and you might as well take finalfighter's route for Wily 3 & 4.
Hmm... indeed. I did not try it. I will compare them.
EDIT: Done, results:
Old: switch to Item1 (−40); take damage (−40); zip (＋0) = −80
New: switch to Wood (−60); shoot; wait for shot to disappear; refill (−80); switch to Item1 (−60); zip hopefully faster (＋22) ＝ −178
The refill way is 98 frames slower. (Demonstrated in the previous post, see megaman2w3comp.avi).
To profit, gains otherwhere should be greater than 98 frames. Unlikely. I used the Wood weapon because it is the fastest in dealing with the shotman. With metal blades, for example, multiple hits would be required to destroy it.
Edit: I tried to see if there are more locations where Item1 is useful. Hence, added megaman2w2comp2.avi into the previous post. Turns out that one is not useful.
Edit: Actually, I am surprised. I thought the refill costs 40 frames, but it really costs 80 frames. :o
It is twice as slow as Rockman 1.
This means that the minimum gain from an Item1 to be profitable is 17 frames. If it does less, it should not be used.
Re-evaluating the Item1 usage.
OPTION 1.
* Two extra item1s in Wily1 give 51 frames and 18 frames, 69 in total.
* Three extra item1s in Wily2 give 49 frames.
＝ 118 frames in total. Refill takes 80 frames.
→ Remain 38 frames of win.
Note: Damage costs 40 frames. The refill must be taken without the extra damage that was seen in megaman2w2ref2. If extra damage is taken, the winning turns into ~2 frames of cost.
If this does not work, we have to use option 2:
OPTION 2.
* Use Item3 in Wily1 beginning (saves two Item1s), then two extra Item1s. Costs 40 (weapon switch from Item3 to Item1), gives 69. 29 frames win.
* No extra item1s in Wily2, no refills.
→ 29 frames of no-risk winning.
Note: A combination of Option 1 and 2 is not possible. If the third refill is taken in Wily2, it will fill Item1 into its fullest capacity, regardless of how many Item1s we used in Wily1. Thus there is no winning to be gained by saving Item1s in Wily1, if the refill is taken.
For the end of wily4, don't the first three methods cost 4,4,and 3 item1s, if the last method is 0 item1s?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
For the end of wily4, don't the first three methods cost 4,4,and 3 item1s, if the last method is 0 item1s?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean / refer to.
EDIT:
Yes, you are right. I see what you meant now. I did not include the item1 used in the previous screen in the sums. Fixing.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
So I watched your guys latest WIP and was a bit confused during the Mechadragon fight. So that fight was either equally fast or faster compared with your previous WIP given the fact that you waited a bit to fire at it? (you first hit it lots of times, wait briefly and fired again).
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Updated movie. It plays Wily3 and a part of Wily4. A small part of Wily2 was improved from Shinryuu's movie.
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman2-shinryuu,bisqwit-pending-v2.13.0.fcm
But, now Finalfighter pointed out that we do not have excess metal blades to play around with! They are needed in the final Wily boss.
I have to devise a new strategy for Wily2 boss. Because I want to play around with those blades. And I already have ideas... For that, I need to patch my emulator a bit (or otherwise, put post-it stickers on my screen).
Edit: I forgot to mention it, but I was really impressed by Shinryuu's progress.
All looks great. Good luck devising a new metal blade show.
Thank you. It is done!
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman2-wily2noilm.avi (800 kB)
I turned Wily2 boss into a puzzle game. Goal: Use as few blades as possible.
I managed to reuse 3 or 4 blades. No miss shots were fired.
Here is a very cool AVI which shows how the battle was displayed to me when I was playing it. I created this FCEU extension which shows where exactly I should place those stationary wheels to kill each particular piece of the enemy. And then I just planned for which ones I can use to kill more than one target.
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman2-wily2ilm.avi (1 MB)
Bisqwit needs to save every single metal blade he can for the future.
Now, those entities die in 2.5 (3.5? don't remember exactly) hits. The .5 hit doesn't eat the metal blade so it can stay around. Bisqwit/Shinryuu deploys them like mines so that they do their 0.5 damage, hang around, and then do the 1.0 damage to the next one to hit them. It's like 1.5 times normal damage from a metal blade. Maybe even more hits are possible and one blade can do 0.5 damage multiple times if you set it up really well.
The bug is up+down based. When you press in directions, the sum of the directions determines the velocity of the metal blade. Up + down = zero velocity. :)
I think that's basically how it works.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
That extension is awesome! And so was your video of course. :) I love the idea of playing a game in a HUD of your own design. The ending gave me a big grin too.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
KDR_11k wrote:
Why are you dropping those stationary blades in the room before the boss?
He did it for fun.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
So here is a new WIP.
It plays until the Wily4 boss.
I want to do Finalfighter's "crashdouble" technique here, but it is beginning to feel like impossible for the first kill.
Finalfighter confers that the technique is much more difficult to perform with the bomb and target residing horizontally to each others (Y axis around the same) than vertically (X axis is the same).
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/rockman2-shinryuu,bisqwit-pending-v2.13.1.fcm
As of this writing, BisqBot has attempted the trick about 600.000 times, with various different starting setups (that I have manually selected):
* Switching weapons before the boss room / switching it inside the boss room (switching it inside is 12 frames slower btw, due to the lag)
* Vertical placement of the bomb in the leftside wall
* Whether trying to kill the leftside gun, or the topright side gun
So far, no single success has been experienced in this first item of the glitch.
So in simpler words, we are stuck.
(Unless we decide to go without doing the glitch -- which is not an option we are entertaining yet.)
Crash glitch is really hard.. i can't even make it to work ehhhh... Bisqwit have you tested Bisqbot yet ?
we try to finish RM2 TAS soon as possbile so no worry :)
