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Posted: 7/8/2008 3:45 PM
Post subject: Ikari Warriors
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
I searched a bit and didn't find any topics on this game, I was just wondering if anyone thinks it would make a very good TAS. The game moves pretty slowly, but some parts have enough enemies to keep it interesting, at least to me. Not to mention it's basically impossible to play normally so it's more impressive. If anyone's interested, I've got a TAS (Although pretty unoptimized) of the first level, mostly just to show somewhat how the TAS would look.
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:36 PM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
I'm interested, could you please post it ?
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 7/8/2008 6:31 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
http://Kirbymuncher.googlepages.com/ikariwarrior1.fcm
Posted: 7/10/2008 7:13 PM
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skater43
Joined: 7/10/2008
Posts: 44
Frankly, I think Ikari Warriors would make a horrible TAS. Nothing personal, it's the game itself. Considering each level takes roughly 10 minutes to beat and offers little variety in the way of action or scenary, I could see many viewers getting bored. I don't think you could do enough "entertainment" type tricks to alleviate the boredom of watching our hero trudge toward the top of the screen for 40 minutes. Just my two cents. You are more than welcome to continue, but I think your efforts would be better spent on a different game.
Posted: 7/10/2008 10:05 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
I figured that could be the case, that's why I didn't just spend a lot of time optimizing and completing the entire game. I'll get a few more opinions, though.
Posted: 7/12/2008 2:27 AM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
I believe there's a super speed power-up in the game, if I recall right. Perhaps if that can be spawned as soon as possible, that might make for a more interesting TAS. I'm not exactly sure if they stack though.
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 7/12/2008 2:45 AM
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Dammit
Experienced player (591)
Joined: 1/11/2007
Posts: 103
IW1 is slow and too long. IW2 is shorter and somewhat faster. IW3 is much better to play and watch. Maybe the nostalgia factor for the audience could spill over to the sequels. You'd have to do 2-player of course. They're all inferior to their arcade originals, but since those are not TASable, it's not your problem.
Posted: 7/12/2008 1:50 PM
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phunqsauce
Joined: 6/5/2005
Posts: 139
Rick wrote:
I believe there's a super speed power-up in the game, if I recall right. Perhaps if that can be spawned as soon as possible, that might make for a more interesting TAS. I'm not exactly sure if they stack though.
All powerups are always in the same place everytime you play the game unfortunately so you can't manipulate them.
I like stuff...
Posted: 7/12/2008 2:53 PM
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Rick
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2004
Posts: 607
Location: Maine
Hmm, well that puts a monkey wrench in that plan. Any idea where the first speed power-up is anyway?
http://wiki.rustedlogic.net/The_Cutting_Room_Floor The Cutting Room Floor wiki.
Posted: 7/12/2008 7:07 PM
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phunqsauce
Joined: 6/5/2005
Posts: 139
I remember this had the first two levels mapped out with locations of secret items (such as the super speed) but unfortunately I don't have this anymore and besides its only the first two levels. I was unable to find any maps of Ikari Warriors when googling although I'm pretty sure kirbymuncher snagged the SS at the first possible moment in level 1. I read in the walkthrough at GameFaqs that if you grab a heart your powerups will roll over to the next mission (however it does not specify if this applies to the super speed powerup). Supposedly you can keep doing this for each level. I don't think a TAS of this would get accepted but I have a fondness for the game because it was the first game I owned for the NES. I was probably one of a very few people who never owned a copy of SMB. Since everyone else had SMB i was able to borrow it whenever i needed to.
I like stuff...
Posted: 7/14/2008 11:32 PM
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vgmrsepitome
Joined: 1/18/2007
Posts: 15
I have been waiting to see a TAS of Ikari Warriors for a long time. I recently completed a non-tool-assisted play-through of the game without using the A-B-B-A cheat code. You can view and/or download the play-through here: http://www.archive.org/details/IkariWarriorsfullgameDVDRW For TAS purposes, you probably shouldn't use any tanks. Once you obtain the super-speed power-up in the first stage, you will move more quickly on foot than in a tank. Yes, obtaining a heart will allow you to carry your power-ups from one stage to the next. But this will count as using your heart, so you will have to obtain another heart in the next stage. Using the chopper might be faster during sections where you have to cross water, but I haven't tested this. Edit: By the way, I obtain the first super-speed power-up at 6:59 of the video. I think that this is the first super-speed power-up in the entire game, but I could be wrong. Also, you'll probably want the knife power-up for the TAS. The knife allows you to kill enemy soldiers by touching them. I obtain the knife at 7:51 of the video.
Posted: 7/15/2008 11:27 AM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
So the heart lets you keep all your power-ups, such as super-speed, in the next level? If that's the case, I'm definitely getting it. And I tried getting the knife, but it didn't seem to do anything. I was still killed when I tried to walk into enemies.
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:03 PM
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vgmrsepitome
Joined: 1/18/2007
Posts: 15
I watched your TAS of the first level. You actually didn't get the knife because of a weird glitch in the game. If there is a hidden power-up nearby when you kill a pink soldier who drops a power-up, the power-up will sometimes appear as the hidden power-up, but you won't receive the hidden power-up's abilities. This is what happened in your TAS. The knife power-up is actually hidden to the right of where you thought you picked it up. Watch my play-through if you want to see where the knife power-up is. Yes, obtaining a heart will allow you to keep super-speed and all of your other power-ups when going from one stage to the next stage. In stage one, I've found only one heart. It's near the end of the stage.
Posted: 7/15/2008 6:55 PM
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phunqsauce
Joined: 6/5/2005
Posts: 139
This game is definitely full of BAD glitches such as getting stuck in walls (sorry no zipping in this game :P ) which require death to escape. If I remember correctly the programmers were nice enough to send a random missle your way to kill you if you couldn't move for an extended period of time. I'm pretty sure it was actually intended to prevent burnt in screen images if you walked away from the game while it was running. It would have been nice of them to just let you scroll the screen downwards and escape, but that would make TOO much sense. The inability to scroll downward completely screws you out of escaping level 3 if you don't know to throw a grenade in front of the desk after killing the "boss" and you accidentally walk forward a lil bit and scroll the screen. I found this out the hard way the first couple of times i managed to get there back in the day.
I like stuff...
Posted: 7/16/2008 6:12 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
http://Kirbymuncher.googlepages.com/ikariwarrior2.fcm Here's another try at the first level, about 30 seconds faster. This time I do actually pick up the knife, along with getting the heart. Now for another question. Should I shoot everything like crazy for points, or just leave most enemies and only shoot the ones I need to?
Posted: 7/16/2008 10:41 PM
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vgmrsepitome
Joined: 1/18/2007
Posts: 15
Good job on your new version of stage one. It is quite entertaining and much better than the first version. I was glad to see that you got the knife and the heart. You might already know this, but I'm pretty sure that you'll have to get another heart in stage two so that you will have all of your power-ups at the beginning of stage three. Just shoot the enemies that you need to. I think that killing enemies just for points would make the TAS less entertaining.
Posted: 7/17/2008 8:28 PM
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kirbymuncher
Player (36)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 284
I just noticed a mention of two-player. Does an additional super-speed powerup appear with two people, or does one person just end up faster than the other? And what happens if one player doesn't keep up? Does it lock the screen or does it just scroll without them?
Posted: 7/17/2008 10:28 PM
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vgmrsepitome
Joined: 1/18/2007
Posts: 15
I have never played the game with two players, so I can't help, but I would guess that there would still be only one super-speed power-up in two-player mode. I think that a one-player TAS would be just as good, anyway.
Posted: 7/23/2008 2:24 AM
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XkyRauh
He/Him
Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
With two players, it's possible to "split" one tank into two, if both players hop into it at the same time... might it be possible to share powerups, too?
Posted: 10/3/2008 3:04 AM
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vgmrsepitome
Joined: 1/18/2007
Posts: 15
kirbymuncher, are you still working on this TAS?
Posted: 3/29/2016 9:48 PM
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goldenband
Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 130
Location: United States
Today I read about an Ikari Warriors trick I'd never heard of -- the Flying glitch: https://kb.speeddemosarchive.com/Ikari_Warriors/Game_Mechanics Basically, you can get in a helicopter, hop out in mid-air with the right set of inputs, and fly like Superman through the rest of the stage, invincible and untouchable. It works well for Area 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1v4W9Ka3bA There's no helicopter in Area 2, so using it there is out. According to the SDA link, using the trick causes massive graphical glitches when you land; that seems surmountable for a TAS, but you also can't use your weapons, so fighting the end-level boss (or otherwise doing things that need doing) at the end of Areas 3 & 4 is out. Still, maybe there's a way to leverage this, especially if memory corruption tricks can be found? The SDA link also says you can spawn all kinds of items in Area 4, and that sounds like a potential vulnerability to me.
Posted: 3/11/2017 3:04 PM
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ktwo
Active player (252)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
I'm the one who wrote the guide referenced in the post above. I've been doing console attempts for this game for well over two years now. The game is very random, but there are two obstacles that are bigger than anything else. In stage 3 and 4, you imperatively need fuel drops for the helicopter sections. I've been trying to brute-force the drops, but it has proven to be very time-consuming, so I'm writing to hear if I could get some help understanding if there is anything that can be done to turn the luck around in my favor. The stage 4 drop is complicated, so I'd like to leave that out (at least for now). The stage 3 drop is however pretty straight-forward. You destroy a tank (always in the same spot) and either it gives you a fuel drop or it gives you nothing. Based on my attempts, the drop occurs ~1/3 of the time, but I've just had a streak of 10 straight attempts reaching that far without getting the drop, so it's a problem spot and it's far into the game. Anyways, I have uploaded a movie file getting the drop. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/37584614244415990 The drop is 100% determined beyond a certain horizontal line. That line is a little before the enemy appears on screen. From what I can see, the drop is fully determined at frame 1395 in the uploaded file. So the questions are: What determines the fuel drop? Can it somehow be manipulated in real-time?
Posted: 3/11/2017 6:03 PM
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goldenband
Joined: 10/28/2013
Posts: 130
Location: United States
^Thanks for posting, ktwo. I don't have the chops to help, but I hope someone steps up to assist you. I have to believe all the bugs, randomness, and other weirdness in this game offer some way in to an impressive TAS, and perhaps exploits that can be used by RTS as well.
Posted: 3/12/2017 12:07 AM
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TaoTao
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
I do not know the detailed mechanism of item drop, but I remember that you can manipulate a tank drop in the beginning of area 2. If you destroy the first enemy tank and the left house door, the next enemy tank will drop a tank. On the other hand, if you destroy only the first enemy tank, the next enemy tank will drop nothing. (I know this from famicomall wiki (Japanese)) Here are the movies: tank drop no drop I have almost not read the game code, because it is painful to read Micronics' program. But I might try it if I feel like it.
Posted: 3/13/2017 6:44 PM
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ktwo
Active player (252)
Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 116
goldenband, an RTA will be ~27:30 with the current knowledge/route. I reckon a TAS would be ~1 minute faster. Compared to what else is achieved here on tasvideos, I don't think Ikari would offer too much resistance. For the most part, it's just running straight ahead and shoot at the right time. As far as I can see, there is mainly one obstacle: - The drop in stage 4 is rare and can appear in different spots. There is one spot that is clearly the best (along the path), but it's super rare to get it. Just trying to blindly manipulate it would take a long time. I'm not sure it's going to be a great TAS, but on top of being an iconic game (although mostly for the wrong reasons) there is definitely at least some entertainment that can be squeezed in. Here are some ideas: - Precision-shooting enemies and hidden items. - Don't shoot the enemies and try to create a bullet storm that you just TAS your way through. - In the same spot as you get into the heli in stage 4 and collect the fuel drop, it's possible to completely crap the game out. It's still playable, but the whole screen is filled with garbage sprites. It does clear up after a while though and the game is still beatable. I actually played around just now and managed to record it. That was pretty lucky as it has only happened to me a handful of times in the past. I've uploaded the clip here as demonstration: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/37632573128480213 TaoTao, that was new information to me! It's not going to be useful in a speedrun, but very interesting none the less. Using that trick would make that section quite a bit safer though, so it's going to be useful for a score attack or a marathon run. I'm not sure what you mean with Micronics' code being weird, but I've noticed that I can't seem to get even the most basic information (bullets left, character position etc) from a simple RAM-watch. Maybe that's what you meant?
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