This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1866: hero_of_the_day's SNES Super Metroid "any%, real" in 39:32.80

Finally :) Fantastic improvement, easy yes vote. I won't bother to sit down and dissect the run though, to much work. Maybe I'll do it later. Anyway, great improvement on a great movie for a great game. Grrrrreat.

I wish both hero's and Cpadolf's runs could be published. obvious vote yes, even though I do like Cpadolf's run better.

I watched both of these runs today, and I could definitely see pros and cons to both. This one had some moments that had me chuckle, but I think Cpadolf had slightly better stylistic choices at points (I saw a lot of bomb jumping in this run, whereas he had some more varied movements). However the lag for this run was substantially less, and for some reason it seemed much, much shorter than his (even if it is only a minute and a half). Also, the goal of real time appeals to me so much more. Yes for a great improvement, and a very entertaining run overall. I just wish I could take everything from each run that I liked and smash into one hybrid run. Then we wouldn't need another one ever :)

What is the significance of the Ice Beam? You never really freeze anything out of necessity, so should I assume that it adds damage to your normal shot? You also fired off what seemed like totally random shots every once in a while (ie after your shine before Draygon). Do those serve a purpose? Consider this a Yes vote, so long as the two previous things are justified. Aside from the still confusing path choices and whatnot, this was a very precise and entertaining run. Keep up the good work, hombre.

All the new little tricks and improvements.. obvious yes vote. Both runs had their unique strong points, but I'm still with the realtime-crowd. edit:

What is the significance of the Ice Beam?

freezing metroids, they can't be killed otherwise. (well, power bombs work, but that's really really slow)

Zurreco: Thanks for the comments. As for your questions. Ice beam is the way to kills the metroids in tourian. Ice beam is the staple in every metroid game, it always has the same purpose and pretty much must be collected. You could use power bombs, but that would be insanely slow. Trust me, if I could skip it, I would. It makes killing enemies incredibly difficult. Random shots are fired to allow for a new momentum trick that I figured out. After exiting a morphball or a shinespark, fire your weapon and and hold down+reverse. This will allows samus to clear ledges that otherwise would not be possible. Take a look at the red brinstar shaft to see how I avoided every single ledge using this trick.

Random shots are fired to allow for a new momentum trick that I figured out. After exiting a morphball or a shinespark, fire your weapon and and hold down+reverse. This will allows samus to clear ledges that otherwise would not be possible.

I used the same trick in my run, (I have know of it for some tme but just figured out when it worked while doing the any%) though I don't think I ever needed to shoot before using it.

I liked Cpadolf's play style a little more, but wow, those were some awesome improvements toward the end. I'm especially a fan of the route you chose, but I'll spare the long-winded explanation. Definite yes vote.

Thanks for the responses. Voting Yes now.

I love the route, and I'm especially fond of the Draygon fight. Yes vote.

There is only one way to decide which movie gets published: CAGE FIGHT! Voted yes on this movie, real-time beats in-game time (to me)

There is only one way to decide which movie gets published: CAGE FIGHT!

No, there is nonthing to decide, this movie has already won even before it was submitted, there was never any question as to which would be published.

Voted yes on this movie, real-time beats in-game time (to me)

It does for everyone it seems, except the speedrunners =/

Very very very nice run Hero. You must be relieved finally finish this run knowing you had to restart and all that. Voting yes and I am also in favor of only having a real time run.

Loved it a lot. A good amount of interesting strategies, although there were some moments I wasn't particularly fond of. I'll try to think them through to see if it's possible to change something, when I have some more time.

It does for everyone it seems, except the speedrunners =/

Hah, true, true.

One improvement I though of the first time I watched the run is when you are heading back from kraid, you use a PB to blow up the bomb block in the other end of the room but you can actually do a mockball with momentum gathered from the previous room and it is only ~8 ingame frames slower. And I believe that a PB causes more than 8 frames of lag. Also why did you not use a mockball on the platform when going in to WS as you do when you head out? I thought that was confirmed to be faster, or was the two strategies equally fast?

Gigantic improvement Hero, a sure yes vote of course. I think although CPadolf's run is very stylish, I'd also prefer this real-time TAS to be published. I think it sucks how many new strategies were found after hero was already past these points, mostly thinking of OTES and improved Torizo Skip. Here's some parts of the run I really liked/questions regarding it: -Leaving PBs, was that upward CWJ strategy reall faster one? -Could it be faster to do a CWJ from that last step in the Kihunter room/pre-WSmissilelake room and shoot that block in the air, then fall down? -Nice strategy in the room before pre-ice beam room and also in pre-ice beam room in the way back -Metal Pirates/those before Ridley, was awesome -Also the room after, on the way back too -Upward CWJ possible on the way to pre-Botwoon room? Also, I find it weird my name has been on some thank lists while I haven't really found anything useful.

Angerfist, I am indeed very relieved to be done with this after the headache/heartache with my Snes9x 1.51 run. Cpadolf, I kinda just went with using the PB in Kraid's lair because it looked cool. I think the real time difference is very close. The WS entry mockball was simply mistimed by me, and I thought it was the same speed as running. According to Saturn it is two frames faster to mockball here. Tonski, -After power bombs, the upward CWJ was the same speed as a normal walljump. I just included it for stylistic purposes. -I will look into a CWJ after missile lake, but I am almost certain it would not reach the hole due to a low ceiling. -Upward CWJ on on the way to prebotwoon would be slower, if I am thinking of where you are thinking. And of course your name should be in the thanks list. Whether or not I used anything specifically from you, you still contributed much to the SM community. Thanks for the comments guy :)

The general lack of pre-Kraid speed booster, high jump boots, and plasma in the Ridley and MB battles actually makes this run look significantly slower than Cpadolf's in "real time". Of course, I always fast-forward away elevators and door transitions when watching SM tases, and that makes a difference. But it's also a shame that the early Zebes parts here aren't as polished. Nevertheless, the quality of this run is obviously exceptional and I noticed lots of new small tricks; enough to make the run very interesting to watch throughout. In the end, I like Cpadolf's run slightly more, and would prefer to see it published if I have to choose one, but this run is heroic as well and a much-needed improvement in its category; well done hero :) It's a shame that there currently isn't a better site than TASvideos for publicizing SM speedruns. I would sure like to see a page that lists of all the 20-something categories that exist for this game, with the history of records in each category. If someone has a lot of free time...

yes

Awesome run and a gigantic realtime-improvement I didn't expect to be that high! It looks very well optimized and shows some new and really cool stuff. The Red Brinstar shaft on the way down, where you managed to completely avoid the last platform before falling into the ripper area really surprised me. I didn't manage to do that. Also I especially liked the completely different and crazy Lower Norfair strategies. The way you manipulated the last Super Missile refill before Ridley was very clever, and saved far more time in the fight than the slowdown it required to get before. The other highlights are surely the crazy Draygon fight and the completely new CWJ+mockball strategy in the MB room, which was very unexpected to see. And of course top ammo/health management here once again. The only minor mistakes I could see:

• Of course the Ridley grab. However you got really excellent Super drops for that, so it probably isn't much of a loss due to less forced refills in the end.

• The WS lake jump + CWJ was executed with a slightly slower momentum than possible. This loses like 2-4 frames I guess. See Cpadolfs version for the optimal way here.

• The mockball before WS entrance indeed is 2 frames faster. Just compare the frame counts of your v1.51 run with this one to see.

• And congratulations to find the direct jump into the shot hole after WS lake before falling down to the Red Brinstar elevator room. I actually used this tech in my any% as well. However if you don't need a refill from the crab below, then my falling technique saves ~30 frames compared to what you did there. As a reward for this nice run, I decided to make a demo vid directly ripped from my any% to show everybody how it's done: http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/SM%20Tech%20%2D%20Saturn%20Fall.rar

This is all pretty minor though, so I still have some doubts whether a 0:23 will ever be possible with this route. Your run is very tightly optimized already, and I just can't see more than at most 10 sec improvements in it. Voting YES on a really huge improvement to the previous run. Very well done, hero!

The general lack of pre-Kraid speed booster, high jump boots, and plasma in the Ridley and MB battles actually makes this run look significantly slower than Cpadolf's in "real time".

This. It's all well and good that it gets to the final boss faster, but ridley and mother brain take significantly longer in this version than in Cpadolf's, and those fights are far and away the most boring portion of both movies, so Cpadolf's wins my vote in terms of entertainment. Though I enjoyed Herooftheday's stylistic choices (in terms of waiting) a good deal more than Cpadolf's, as they were less spastic, the overall gameplay in this version is less entertaining. It is a shame that they won't be published side-by-side due to the large number of categories that Super Metroid already represents on this site.

Though I enjoyed Herooftheday's stylistic choices (in terms of waiting) a good deal more than Cpadolf's, as they were less spastic

Yeah I tend to make samus go ADHD sometimes... Some seem to like it though.

It actually looks like you create a bit of lag when first waiting for Mother Brain to rise up, just before the mini-platform goes away you throw out some bombs, lagging for a frame or two.