I did have a quick look for more zips that turned out not so quick :P
Idea for W2L2:
I'm not sure with the exact mechanics yet so not sure if it will be possible... it's kind of tricky to set up as well but I suppose that adds value to the TAS :D Once you're inside the walls just jump a few times to reach the final
Idea for W2L2 seems very interesting! However ceiling here is too high and with only one bird it impossible to set up conditions for zip.
I not exclude that may be exist some crazy-geek-opportunity to do it with using straw-man & birds, but it would be insane hard.
Actually it even very hard to test. Need some kind of script to get bird XY-position under our control.
And even if with "tame bird" it will work not the fact real free bird will allow to do the same. I not tell about that straw-man is also pain in ass. Oh... it will be very hard challenge.
In W2L3 it possible with one bird but, but it's significantly slower than classic upper path. Stupid key.
I also had tested idea to skip Mr.Octopus boss. (Small octopuses as set up to zip.) But result also negative - right side of map is not loaded until big one is alive.
DaTeL237 wrote:
:) I don't expect to be doing one so feel free to take the existing one and improve it :)
Currently i need to finish tas project for another game, but after it most likely i will try update Mr.Nutz.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Hi Skarsnik,
One major downside to your category is that the viewer has no way to know whether you actually collected all the nuts... who's to say that you didn't miss any?
Edit: In fact... how do you even know that you didn't miss any secret area that contains nuts :)
Another concern: is it possible to reach all of them? I can imagine that going into secret area X results in secret area Y from being unreachable.
Then for the movie:
When you are at horizontal platforms that move in the same direction that you want to do you should walk on them as long as you can because your default walking speed is added to the platform's speed. In level 3 there are some missed opportunities for this.
Of course it also means you should stay off platforms that move against your direction :)
In this spot the movement looks odd. Isn't there a faster way that starts by grabbing nuts on the right and jumps on the enemy after that? Alternatively, it seems that you could have jumped asap after collecting them and landing. Then at least the left-ward acceleration would have been faster I think.
In this spot.. in my TAS I didn't slow down and still got all the nuts. Could you use the same strategy?
When changing direction when you are running on a surface:
DaTeL237 wrote:
so far the fastest way to change direction i found was to hold down (duck/crouch) on the ground until speed==0, then jumping and accelerating in air
I see some places where this could have been used.
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Archanfel wrote:
However ceiling here is too high and with only one bird it impossible to set up conditions for zip.
That's why I had in mind to hop from the black block on the bird into the zip
For testing... since Skarsnik already found the positions of enemies I'm sure we can also control/lock them with a LUA script for testing :)
If you want cruel truth - optimisation still at enough low level, lots of visible flaws.
Just a few examples (list far from complete):
~5900 no reasons to kill hedgehog (who knows, may be it is grandfather of sonic?). If you jump at very beginning of bonus you easily can go upper path without killing it.
~7600 you can ride on platform a bit.
~9100 you can use fairy to climb up to platform faster (look published TAS).
~9300 no reasons for slowdown during getting nuts.
~13478 you can fall down without landing (look published TAS again)
The same mistake 13974 and 14044.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Ok thx. I changed a bit these. I think I shave off 1 sec? (I will redo the climb while taking a dmg on the fairy. I am not fan of it)
For the landing or not. When I played around the first slope it was equivalent if you don't come from a long jump.
Changing direction... yeah it's annoying, I need to recheck. At least TAS studio stopped crashing for me so it's not that bad to change stuff.
Ok, I tried the Japanese ROM. my movie desync weirdly. I will have a closer look probably in the future. But an interesting thing to note. You have more health. You start with 6 heal on a maximum of 9.
EDIT: I imported the current any% TAS in bizhawk. It did not desync for world1. That can probably be useful if you want to work with TAS studio on it
REDIT
I managed to have a script to draw the map (colission) It's not really fully accurate but it make realise this
Because as you can see on
There are blocks here (the number it's because it a type of block I am not familiar with) The double hitbox on Mr.Nutz is not false. There is his map hitbox (how he interact with the map) and his dmg hitbox (how it interact with enemy)
REEDIT : The jap rom make you start with 20 nuts. Maybe it can be a time saver for the any% TAS
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Ah nice. Now the next step is to explore the whole game with it :D
Some extra life and nuts could be useful as well, good to know these differences between jap and usa versions :)
As far as i remember, The US ((U)) versions are generally preferred over the Japanese ((J)). Extra health & nuts is good but i believe not enough significant to switch versions. Anyway nice to know about this difference.
@Skarsnik
I accidentally watched part of your practices where you failed to escape from pit in W2L1 with two birds. Try harder - it is possible.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Fastest version is preferable now if I am right. But I think there is some small engine change and probably other stuff to discover.
I did not really give up for the double birds to escape. I just wanted to move on something else. It's probably not that faster with the detour I have to take to get an extra bird + getting the normal exit. I still needed to reach 2-2 to compare.
Do you want the Lua script with map collision? I think you manage to zip when you are between map 'block'. If you can zip almost anywhere you can probably save time on 1-4. The issue it only work for bizhawk now. (but with small adjugement it can work on snes9x)
I did not really give up for the double birds to escape.
Glad to hear.
Skarsnik wrote:
Do you want the Lua script with map collision?
...
The issue it only work for bizhawk now. (but with small adjugement it can work on snes9x)
Not sure that it would be useful, but if for you it is not hard make equivalent for snes9x - you are welcome to do it :)
Skarsnik wrote:
If you can zip almost anywhere you can probably save time on 1-4
Not forget that jumping on enemy at exact position very close to ceiling is necessary to penetrate inside. I not see where in 1-4 it can be done?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Actually it even very hard to test. Need some kind of script to get bird XY-position under our control.
And even if with "tame bird" it will work not the fact real free bird will allow to do the same. I not tell about that straw-man is also pain in ass. Oh... it will be very hard challenge.
In W2L3 it possible with one bird but, but it's significantly slower than classic upper path. Stupid key.
I also had tested idea to skip Mr.Octopus boss. (Small octopuses as set up to zip.) But result also negative - right side of map is not loaded until big one is alive.
In this spot.. in my TAS I didn't slow down and still got all the nuts. Could you use the same strategy?
When changing direction when you are running on a surface:
Because as you can see on
There are blocks here (the number it's because it a type of block I am not familiar with) The double hitbox on Mr.Nutz is not false. There is his map hitbox (how he interact with the map) and his dmg hitbox (how it interact with enemy)
REEDIT : The jap rom make you start with 20 nuts. Maybe it can be a time saver for the any% TAS
