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Posted: 1/16/2008 2:12 PM
(Edited: 8/27/2008 5:49 PM)
Post subject: Mr. Nutz
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DaTeL237
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I started a run on Mr.Nutz ROM Version: Mr. Nutz (U) Emulator: snes9x v1.51 mostly i was wondering... - does anybody have some level-maps? Im sure it'd help in finding the best route - are there any useful glitches/tricks? (cant even even a normal guide :P) quick facts: jumping does not influence Mr Nutz' speed if already at full speed (landing included) throwing acorn slows Mr Nutz down while on the ground, mid-air it does not. shooting delay midair = 8 frames (shoot at frame 1 and frame 9) Mr Nutz' center is not the middle of his hitbox, he will (be) hit (by) enemies earlier while facing away... this does not work on solid obstacles (you cannot jump over larger gaps) interesting memory addresses: horizontal speed = 7E0058,2s (ranges from -48 to 48 while running) x-coordinate = 7E005A,4u (smaller values are more towards the left) y-coordinate = 7E18AE,2u (value 0 is top of map/level) notes: I'm not trying to minimize input (since it does not improve the speed) progress: finished submission: http://tasvideos.org/1888S.html addresses used: 7E18AE,2u,Y Position (3) 7E003D,2u,Y Position (2) 7E0039,2u,Y Position (1) 7E005A,4u,X Position (3) 7E18A8,2u,X Position (2) 7E18AC,2u,X Position (1) 7E006D,1s,State Indicator 7E0058,2s,X Velocity 7E0066,2s,Jump Indicator ;Some enemy state addresses ;7E1ED4,1s,Mr Bliz real HP ;7E1ED6,1s,Mr Bliz disp HP ;7FA068,1s,W6L2 thrower ;7FA330,1s,W4L4 birdy ;7FA0C0,1s,W4L4 wasp ;7FA598,1s,W4L3 bat ;7FA168,1s,W4L1 floater ;7FA1B0,1s,W4L1 2nd bat ;7FA0E8,1s,W3J3 germ ;7FA108,1s,W3J3 lift2 ;7FA120,1s,W3J3 lift1 ;7FA300,1s,W3J2 lift A ;7FA308,1s,W3J2 lift B ;7FA310,1s,W3J2 lift C ;7FA0F0,1s,W3J2 bunny ;7FA080,1s,W2J3 2nd owl ;7FA198,1s,W2J3 3rd owl Some points for improvement that I found after being published: {frames gained}
    W2L2: downhill elevators (twice) departure moment could probably be better {0-10} W2L2: cornerboost @ end of level {~5} W2L3: face backwards when grabbing key {~5} W3L1: face backwards at trigger (which leads to the attic) {~2} W4L1: sequence-break-lavapit (2 bats to reach) can also be bugged into from beneath a few yards further {up to 3 seconds} W4L3: get into the very top ceiling and zip through {up to 10 seconds} W5L1: turn left, use the floating platforms and take teleport to swimmer-upgrade! {up to 15 seconds}
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:12 PM
(Edited: 1/16/2008 3:18 PM)
Post subject: Re: Mr. Nutz
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mmbossman
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DaTeL237 wrote:
mostly i was wondering... - should i go into the in-game 'options' and change the settings to autorun? it costs some time but saves me the trouble from holding the X-button all game through. Equivalent question: is time spent in menu counted to the final time?
No, don't go to the options. SNES9x has an auto-hold function that allows you to avoid finger cramps. Use that instead. Also, other than in rare cases, a movie is timed from the start of the movie to the end frame of input. So menus definitely count. Also, use Microstorage to upload WIPs, it's a dedicated script that allows you to upload without fear of expiring links. After looking at your WIP, it seems decently made, however the game itself isn't very interesting to me. It seems to be a very straightforward platformer. I'd have to see a bit more, hopefully with more varied levels, before I'd be able to tell you that it looks like a publication candidate. Keep going though, it seems to be a simple enough game to cut your TASing teeth on.
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Posted: 1/16/2008 3:18 PM
Post subject: Re: Mr. Nutz
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Aqfaq
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Welcome DaTeL237!
does anybody have some level-maps? Im sure it'd help in finding the best route
I have tried to find maps too, but not been able to. There are probably no maps available anywhere at the moment. You might want to request these maps done in vgmaps.com.
are there any useful glitches/tricks?
I don't know any. Usually some tricks start emerging when you just use the emulator tools precisely and try to do everything as fast as possible.
I'm not trying to minimize input (since it does not improve the speed)
That is completely ok. Keeping the input files clean is mostly a personal preference.
Posted: 1/16/2008 3:29 PM
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DaTeL237
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Location: The Netherlands
ok just found the first interesting 'trick' Mr Nutz ac/de-celerates faster when in air when one runs against a wall full speed, Nutz' speed remains 48 which translates to an 'instant' acceleration if the wall is removed so ill look for an x-coordinate address and try to maximize increase in that. looks like its 7E005A (4byte unsigned) edit: ok had a go at j1-4 j3's route is questionable j4 im sure some frames can be squeezed out but.... how. Falling fast seems to be hard :D result under link @ 1st post y-coordinate (0 is top of the map) = 7E18AE ill be looking into the 1st boss soon edit2: ok boss went nicely imo, see new upload gonna have to do everything again I think. The score-counter after every world takes longer if more coins were collected (I think, need to check)...... opinions plz (some frames vs nice collects) edit3: renewed boss strategy, spends all acorns (just for fun, you dont get to keep them anyway) 1 more question: How do i know when the/a RNG is issued?
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 1/17/2008 1:50 PM
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DaTeL237
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Joined: 1/16/2008
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Location: The Netherlands
ok could do with some feedback on world 2's first level.... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1883810562/w2y1_complete_v1_02.smv used the owl but had to wait for it....
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 1/17/2008 2:51 PM
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Aqfaq
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Looks very good. Nice shortcut with the owl.
DaTeL237 wrote:
The score-counter after every world takes longer if more coins were collected
Yeah, it seems so. There are some runs that ignore the time lost in the bonus countdown, but I think in this case it will be more impressive if you avoid the coins. Good luck!
Posted: 1/18/2008 1:33 PM
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DaTeL237
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Joined: 1/16/2008
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Location: The Netherlands
Aqfaq wrote:
Looks very good. Nice shortcut with the owl.
DaTeL237 wrote:
The score-counter after every world takes longer if more coins were collected
Yeah, it seems so. There are some runs that ignore the time lost in the bonus countdown, but I think in this case it will be more impressive if you avoid the coins. Good luck!
ill continue the current run for a bit (and not publish it) as a 'rough' indication and then see how much i can cut off in a 2nd go... im sure some more speed-tricks will surface unlike enemies, the swinging ropes swing independent of when they come into screen... they're tied to the frames (so you can know exactly how a rope a mile away swings) not really sure about the x-coordinate btw.... if Nutz is standing still on a moving platform the value remains constant :X Oh, does anybody know what the 'skill bonus' is influenced by? can't seem to completely figure it out :X getting hit (losing 1 hp) substracts 1 from skill-bonus dying substract 1 additional point getting a red hp node will add 1 decided to: avoid coins, collect hp, collect acorns, do not avoid enemy kills
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 1/25/2008 5:24 PM
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DaTeL237
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redone the thing and found a sequence break at w2j3... requires an owl which doesnt travel at full speed world 2 done (see link @ first post)
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 1/25/2008 11:37 PM
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Aqfaq
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Haha, impressive trick with the owl! :D I think you've got a very good style in your run. Anyway, here's some nitpicking: It seems that you autofired the X-button to speed up the text boxes. Would it not have been slightly faster to seek the earliest frame manually? Also, are you sure that there is no single frame in the whole movie where releasing the run button would save time? For example, I would imagine that when you need to move like this (like when collecting an item or something) 
----->
<-----
there's a small chance that you save time if you release the run button before you turn back to the left, because when you are running, you might move further to the right than necessary, thus slightly increasing the distance to backtrack. I'm not sure about it, though. I think it is a nice idea to aim for high skill bonus, but I'm sure there are people who would prefer aiming for speed only. Either way, it is important to be consistent with the goals throughout the movie. Overall, the levels look very good and the boss fights look perfect. Good luck for the rest of the run!
Posted: 1/26/2008 9:57 AM
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DaTeL237
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Location: The Netherlands
Aqfaq wrote:
Haha, impressive (...) rest of the run!
thnx for comment about the autofire: I'll look into it soon, but im fairly sure it's the fastest way since every single frame a new letter appears (so it's the fastest way unless i can make multiple letters appear simultaniously) edit: oh, its a new letter every frame, not 'every other' frame about the 'releasing X': good point, so far the fastest way to change direction i found was to hold down (duck/crouch) on the ground until speed==0, then jumping and accelerating in air.... forgot about toying with the run button :X, again i'll look into it :) edit: as far as i could figure out, the X/Run-button only influences behaviour where it is expected (that is, where speed exceeds the walk-threshold) about the goals, ye i'll stick with one goal... even though i found that future levels will force me to collect loads amount of coins :D found another nice (mini) sequence break in W2L2, i'll post another WIP when World3 is done
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 2/4/2008 2:03 PM
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DaTeL237
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Location: The Netherlands
ok World 3 seems to be finished and uploaded I think I won't post more WIPs until the run is complete tried many ways of fiddling with the X/Run-button and couldn't find a single case where releasing it was faster for any action World 3 took quite some planning for hp and ammo... also the swings/chains are *really* annoying since one cannot choose to ignore them (Mr Nutz always grabs it if he's close enough, even when it's moving in the opposite direction). Sometimes they swing the wrong way and I'm forced to wait for it to swing back. unfortunately MicroStorage doesn't accept save-states, else I would've provided them.
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 2/4/2008 10:40 PM
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Aqfaq
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Looks good. No complaints. :)
Posted: 2/5/2008 12:35 AM
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mmbossman
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GBx TAS of 2008
I have to say, when I saw the first level I was less than impressed with the game, but it turns into a very nice and entertaining platformer pretty quickly. I can also tell that you've put those 24000 rerecords to good use, because it looks very optimized. Good job and keep up the good work!
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 9/5/2014 11:54 AM
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Archanfel
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In game there are 1729 coins (btw very beautiful number!). Many coins are located in hidden places and even in secret stages, i think would be quite interesting to do 100% run with collecting all these coins. Is it a good goal? And second question, i plan to use genesis version Mr. Nutz (E), should i also do new any% run for this version, or one 100% run will be enough for publication?
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/5/2014 3:07 PM
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feos
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NES TAS of 2011
Both of these categories are speed records, meaning even if they look boring, they're still published (as long as executed well). For all the rest you also need them to be entertaining.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 9/10/2014 9:59 PM
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Archanfel
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I finished test-run with collecting all coins. I will try to do optimised version in next months. If someone interested can to taste weakly optimised version: Link to video
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/12/2014 5:46 AM
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Exonym
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Gameboy TAS of 2021
Your video is private; can't view it.
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
Posted: 9/12/2014 8:52 AM
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Archanfel
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Exxonym wrote:
Your video is private; can't view it.
Fixed, now video should work. Btw my encode low quality, so probably would be more comfortable to watch movie on emulator: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/17350410113133576
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/13/2014 1:10 PM
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ElectroSpecter
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I started a 100% WIP a few years ago and it never amounted to much. Runs of this game would be much better without that stupid clown boss. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1841305293/Mr.%20Nutz%20%28U%29.smv (I'm pretty sure this is the right smv file, but I have no way of checking because the SNES emulators aren't working on my new computer for some reason)
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Posted: 9/13/2014 8:47 PM
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Archanfel
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ElectroSpecter wrote:
I started a 100% WIP a few years ago and it never amounted to much. I'm pretty sure this is the right smv file
Thanks, your smv file is workable, only pity that it is too short. Very nice damage trick at flowers in W1L2, i'll definitely take this trick into service! Btw my route in W1L3 is better, as you can in my test-run usage of spiders on back way is faster :) I work with optimised version very very slowly, not expect final result sooner than november... --- Parallelly i also re-doing any% on Genesis (with improvements). I only have trouble with zips. There are some version difference in zips between Genesis and SNES, and not the fact that that it still will work in Genesis. For example First easy zip in Ice Cream igloo is not workable. Second zip in igloo look like to still workable in Genesis (i got wrong zip, but it is promising for success). Third igloo zip is doubtful too. Would be great if someone smart can check these three zips in Ice Cream igloo level in Genesis version, and to say are they workable or not?
DaTeL237 wrote:
Some points for improvement that I found after being published: {frames gained} W4L3: get into the very top ceiling and zip through {up to 10 seconds}
I will be very grateful if someone can help to find exact place where is possible to activate this zip in W4L3. I checked all this damned top ceiling, but not find where, not on Genesis not even on SNES...
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/13/2014 9:03 PM
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creaothceann
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Btw... http://www.romhacking.net/documents/594/ Might be helpful if they re-used the game engine?
Posted: 9/16/2014 11:01 PM
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Archanfel
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creaothceann wrote:
Might be helpful if they re-used the game engine?
It is not helpful, but thanks anyway. --- Meanwhile i finished optimised 100% run for World 1. So far 663 frames (~13,26 sec) ahead of test-run: Link to video Here also any% run for World 1 if someone interested. P.S. Help with finding place for activating zip in W4L3 are still welcome.
DaTeL237 wrote:
Some points for improvement that I found after being published: {frames gained} W4L3: get into the very top ceiling and zip through {up to 10 seconds}
I will be reach World 4 not soon, but anyway sooner or later time for this problem will come, and would be pity to miss this opportunity again (at least if this zip is workable on Genesis).
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/19/2014 7:47 PM
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DaTeL237
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Archanfel wrote:
DaTeL237 wrote:
Some points for improvement that I found after being published: {frames gained} W4L3: get into the very top ceiling and zip through {up to 10 seconds}
I will be reach World 4 not soon, but anyway sooner or later time for this problem will come, and would be pity to miss this opportunity again (at least if this zip is workable on Genesis).
Hi Archanfel, Nice to see somebody working on this game. Your TAS so far is fun to watch for me. I didn't know that the game would tell the player that he collected all coins :) Unfortunately I don't remember specifically what spots you can zip through. I do know that I made a ceiling_hug.lua script to look for 'holes' in the ceiling to go through. I've attached the code, maybe it'll help you. Good luck with the coins run! 
JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD = 0x7e0066;
STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE = 0x7e006d;

while true do
	local state = memory.readbyte(STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE);
	local state2 = memory.readword(JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD);
	
	local input = joypad.read(1);
	
	if (input["B"] and (state2>200 or state2==0)) then
		memory.writeword(JUMP_INDICATOR_WORD, 100);
		memory.writebyte(STATE_INDICATOR_BYTE, 1);
	end
	
	snes9x.frameadvance();
end
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 9/23/2014 9:54 PM
(Edited: 9/24/2014 10:30 PM)
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Archanfel
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Great that DaTeL237-sensei still around here! even with amnesia. I very like your old any% movie for this game. Beside improvements which you mentioned i found very little: * In kitchen is possible to save one pendulum cycle ~4 sec by taking 2 damage. (In genesis Mr. Nutz have 5 HP as default so -2HP is not problem. In SNES version it is still faster, but a bit more tricky, required to get life and full HP at roof before kitchen.) * And also possible to skip map between World 5 and World 6 and to save about 12 sec. (It's workable on both versions.) In all other places i nearly always agree with all your solutions. Honestly it pretty hard to maintain such good optimisation level as you did previously. But i trying :)
DaTeL237 wrote:
Your TAS so far is fun to watch for me.
I glad that you found it fun. Your opinion is very significant for me. Meanwhile World 2 with all coins is finished. Whole 2043 frames ahead of my test-run in this world. (+663 in W1 = 2706 frames in total). Link to video First half of W2L3 took me a lot thinking, i checked about 12 different routes. P.S. Apologies about bad video quality, i have no idea how to do encode with higher resolution than 320x224 in Gens :(
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell) Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Posted: 9/24/2014 6:10 AM
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Samsara
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Archanfel wrote:
P.S. Apologies about bad video quality, i have no idea how to do encode with higher resolution than 320x224 in Gens :(
AVI recordings from emulators will always encode at the standard console resolution. You have to manually resize the video using AviSynth or some other video editor.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
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