Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4045
ais523 wrote:
If you're starting off a file with substantial progress, it's a new game +, and that's not a category that TASvideos normally accepts.
I thought the new SotN any% run was going to do muramasa transfer from an already made save file and it was OK'd.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Any run that entertains the audience can be accepted, but if you have weird rules then you're basically shooting for the Moon tier without having the Vault available as a fallback (because your run isn't a standard "as fast as possible" run). At least, I think that's how it works. I doubt that an FFMQ run would be able to succeed purely on the basis of entertainment (barring the discovery of some really weird glitches); it's a fun enough game, but watching it is honestly pretty dull.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Player (52)
Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 8
I have found a glitch to skip the Jinn boss now. But The resistance bug itself I think can shave another 10 minutes off the run.
Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6
You probably intend to grab either Kaeli's second incarnation or Reuben and use her stats every chance you get. The game wouldn't have been completed, but the verification run would get quite close, having completed either half or 3/4 of the game. As for the spells, Life also heals every status effect in the game, and is a guaranteed full heal. This being a TAS, I don't expect you to ever have any status effect, but still. Cure's healing is a percentage based off your Magic stat (50%+some fraction(possibly 1/1)of Magic), and the percentage is split evenly between both characters when you heal both at the same time. The list of bosses Life can insta-kill is very, very small. The Minotaur, and Skullrus Rex, the first boss refight in the Doom Castle. I remember hearing somewhere that the Stone Golem can be killed with Exit, but I doubt that's actually true. For that guy who was wondering about moving across the sand so quickly, it takes the direction you're trying to move in into account - if you move with the sand, you go what looks like 2x to 2.5x as fast as regular walking. Otherwise, you waste time. I'm just trying to answer the questions which haven't been addressed. Use this knowledge as you will.
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280
Giga wrote:
You probably intend to grab either Kaeli's second incarnation or Reuben and use her stats every chance you get. The game wouldn't have been completed, but the verification run would get quite close, having completed either half or 3/4 of the game. As for the spells, Life also heals every status effect in the game, and is a guaranteed full heal. This being a TAS, I don't expect you to ever have any status effect, but still. Cure's healing is a percentage based off your Magic stat (50%+some fraction(possibly 1/1)of Magic), and the percentage is split evenly between both characters when you heal both at the same time. The list of bosses Life can insta-kill is very, very small. The Minotaur, and Skullrus Rex, the first boss refight in the Doom Castle. I remember hearing somewhere that the Stone Golem can be killed with Exit, but I doubt that's actually true. For that guy who was wondering about moving across the sand so quickly, it takes the direction you're trying to move in into account - if you move with the sand, you go what looks like 2x to 2.5x as fast as regular walking. Otherwise, you waste time. I'm just trying to answer the questions which haven't been addressed. Use this knowledge as you will.
You can definitely kill the Stone Golem with Exit. Try it yourself!
Player (52)
Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 8
Yeah this is all common knowledge to me. I have been running this game for almost 2 years now RTA/SS currently holding both Any% 2:26:22 and 100% 2:40:37 records. My chat has been bugging me to do a TAS of this game but since I play on SNES the resistance bug is permanently on your system because it takes the last loaded file as your 2nd character's equipment. I would use Phoebe's 2nd time in the party as the save file that was last loaded. I could do a TAS with and without the glitch and see how much time the resistance bug saves, but I am pretty sure it will be a pretty fair chunk.
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 64
I know this isn't a terribly active topic at the moment, but I just wanted to chip in a thing that I didn't see mentioned in the thread here - I am pretty sure the reason that healing damages the final boss is due to an overflow. Normally when you cure something, it adds the current HP to the cure amount and sets the HP to that value, then reduces it to the target's max HP if it's over that amount. But the last boss has a huge amount of HP - so much so that if you heal it from its full health, the sum wraps the max integer (presumably 65535, the max of a 16-bit unsigned int), resulting in a total "less than" the boss's max, so it sets it to that sum - and then it checks the change between the old value and the new value, displaying that as a massive amount of damage. This is why the cure spell healing the boss or damaging him seems inconsistent - after you've "healed" him the first time, his current health is much lower, and it can add your cure spell's amount to that without overflowing, resulting in normal healing. Note that I haven't examined the game's code, or played it in a long time, so this is just informed speculation: According to this FAQ, the Dark King has 40,000 HP. In theory, if you can wrangle a way to heal him by exactly 25,536 HP, you might be able to one-shot him with a Cure spell. I don't know how the phase progression figures into it, though (it might cap the damage at the threshold, or even have separate HP totals for each phase), so that might complicate the strategy.
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
This is very interesting. I always thought that the cure spell attack on the dark king was included as an Easter egg by the developers. Do you think there would be any chance of doing this on the other bosses who have higher HP?
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Per the FAQ that NMcCoy linked, the other bosses in the Focus Tower have 20k, 15k, 10k, and 10k HP (and Pazuzu has 25k). Doesn't mean it wouldn't work, necessarily, just that it'd require repeat castings. Assuming of course that the bosses don't have a max HP cap that the game applies. Do any monsters in the game use healing magic on themselves? I can't remember. If they do, then the devs might well have added a check to make certain they can't overheal themselves, which would mean that overflow might only be possible if you do it in "one shot".
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280
Yes, there are enemies that heal themselves - Mages, if I recall correctly.
Post subject: Re: Starting from a non clear-SRAM state
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
FFGamer86 wrote:
I want to utilize the glitch of the resistance bug. This bug makes the 2nd character's equipment be = to the character in the 2nd slot on the last loaded save file.
There was some question with the currently published run by DonamerDragon about whether getting the Noble Armor saves time or not because + it's a slight defense bonus and offers a couple of resistances + the time to pick it up is less than a second - each time the game says, "Donnie is strong against water attacks" it causes a slight delay So resistances can be a positive or a negative. I would have to think that using the resistance bug in a TAS, where you have a lot of control over which attacks enemies use and whether or not they succeed, would be of little or no benefit. It's quite possible that it would be negative. So, here's a Speedrun FAQ that was published for this game, last updated in February 2015: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/532476-final-fantasy-mystic-quest/faqs/68495 The "big deal" in this FAQ is using an inventory glitch to skip 2 major dungeons and have some other minor benefits. I don't think it's been discussed yet in this thread. Pretty sure the route described in this FAQ could save 15 minutes or so on the published run. There may even be other key item-related skips possible with the methods described here.
andrewC
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Joined: 3/21/2017
Posts: 5
Location: JAX Division!
So basically, an "any%" run. Since this website introduced the Bizhawk emulator, I figured I would seek to create a new FFMQ TAS from scratch as my first project. The Hero's name for this new TAS is simply "AC". I also have the actual version of SNES 9X, the ROM, and the movie that DonamerDragon wrote. I figured I would forego the SRAM glitch and focus primarily on the item manipulation glitch. I would also use DonamerDragon's movie to help me walk through the first two areas of the game from the beginning all the way to after the Ice Pyramid. The reason is to make sure we don't lose too many frames or over-using frames to manipulate whatever RNG is lying around. This is also a slight challenge because the Hero is entering the fourth area on a slightly lower level - so if the Hero needs to clear a battlefield or two in order to gear up for at least the Pazuzu battle, then so be it. On the other hand, the Hero can skip the Aero spell room in Focus Tower/Doom Castle 1B, but it will require keeping the other characters alive the whole time. At the Rope Bridge, I believe I can pick up Tristan and we both can stop by the "Exit spell" battlefield on the way back to Phoebe's house. The glitched number of Seeds should be more than enough for both the Hero and its partner to keep using spells for the remainder of the game. Once the item manipulation glitch is executed and the final boss is defeated, I can more than likely go back and search the exact memory addresses that affects the elements of the game including quantity of each item, key items, and crests. Overall, this will depend on how many others are interested in watching out for my progress. Although the following YouTube clip shows a record of 1:52:57, I don't think this project would compete with that or any other published run. I would research this whole thing first and then try to aim for a faster time (under the "any%" branch) sometime later if need be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtpvujetfUU
freshfeeling wrote:
ffgamer86 wrote:
I want to utilize the glitch of the resistance bug. This bug makes the 2nd character's equipment be = to the character in the 2nd slot on the last loaded save file.
There was some question with the currently published run by DonamerDragon about whether getting the Noble Armor saves time or not because + it's a slight defense bonus and offers a couple of resistances + the time to pick it up is less than a second - each time the game says, "Donnie is strong against water attacks" it causes a slight delay So resistances can be a positive or a negative. I would have to think that using the resistance bug in a TAS, where you have a lot of control over which attacks enemies use and whether or not they succeed, would be of little or no benefit. It's quite possible that it would be negative. So, here's a Speedrun FAQ that was published for this game, last updated in February 2015: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/532476-final-fantasy-mystic-quest/faqs/68495 The "big deal" in this FAQ is using an inventory glitch to skip 2 major dungeons and have some other minor benefits. I don't think it's been discussed yet in this thread. Pretty sure the route described in this FAQ could save 15 minutes or so on the published run. There may even be other key item-related skips possible with the methods described here.
Movie #
"I don't play games. I abuse them." ~ andrewC
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
It would take a substantial amount of time to clear even a single battlefield. Of course the Exit spell will make other mandatory fights go a lot faster...how much confidence do you have that doing the battlefield is a net win time-wise? I guess if there's any backtracking that Exit lets you skip, then that's a substantial benefit as well. I honestly can't remember if there are any dungeons that the game forces you to walk back out of.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
andrewC
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Joined: 3/21/2017
Posts: 5
Location: JAX Division!
Nothing else, I really thought that clearing one of the battlefields in the fourth area is all I need for the Hero to gain 2 levels! There is a glitch where if the Hero does level up after the 10th round while the "Cleaned them out" and "Won #### EXP." messages are popped up exactly as it is, the Hero immediately gains another level! I am not sure if anyone knew before, but I did notice that during gameplay. The best way to execute that glitch in this matter may involve between adjusting the EXP needed for the next level, and using the Exit spell to cut down acquired EXP after each battle. Not to mention, I thought this would be much faster than walking around the Mine, Volcano, and Lava Dome trying to level up from there. Somewhere down the line, the act of grinding for experience and an acceptable level needs to be as brief as possible so that the quality of the run is in no way downgraded.
"I don't play games. I abuse them." ~ andrewC
Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
Has anyone tried splicing saves together? I bet you could get into Doom Castle very early. Edit: It appears that you likely *can't*, as there are three separate saves per slot according to datacrystal. So much for that idea.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
andrewC wrote:
There is a glitch where if the Hero does level up after the 10th round while the "Cleaned them out" and "Won #### EXP." messages are popped up exactly as it is, the Hero immediately gains another level!
This is a known glitch. The problem is that it'll take longer to gain another level after you get the double-levelup. So you're a bit more powerful in the short term, but in the long term it makes no difference.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
I'm watching the FFMQ race tournament on SpeedGaming2, and everyone is using the glitched route that would easily beat the current TAS. Skips the two dungeons in the fireburg area and skips getting the thunder rock. Reference: https://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/532476-final-fantasy-mystic-quest/faqs/68495 look for section V)GLITCHES USED IN THE SPEEDRUN The RNG is very unfriendly for realtime play, but is very friendly for TAS play, as different keys pressed each frame varies the RNG result. I bet the fireburg area skip alone would save over 10 minutes.
Player (160)
Joined: 5/20/2010
Posts: 295
The world record of RTA ( https://www.speedrun.com/ffmq/ ) has not been beaten over one year, so the route and the strategy seems to be fixed. Why not try to make a new run?
Post subject: why is everything so difficult for me
Samsara
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Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2240)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I started looking into updating the run, but I've immediately run into a major roadblock that may sound familiar to anyone who's spoken to me for longer than ten seconds: I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how the RNG works. All I've managed to figure out over two full days of looking is that the global timer at $E97 (4byte) is involved, somehow, but only sometimes. There's some other factors in play as well, but trying to find other values in RAM has proved fruitless, namely because half of the values that change either softlock the game or outright crash it when they're modified, and naturally the other half don't change the RNG. Given how much of this game is manipulation and how tight it is in the published run, I don't see myself finishing this if I have to brute force everything, and I've barely even started in the first place. For battles at least, the outcome of an attack seems to be determined around the time it happens visually, with the character's attack textbox being the last thing that can affect it, but delaying any action by a frame seems to lead to different results down the line. Delaying the attack textbox by two frames could be a miss, delaying a previous textbox by two frames could be a critical hit, delaying one textbox by a frame and entering the battle a frame later could be a normal hit. Certain inputs also seem to have some sort of effect on the outcome of an attack without needing to delay at all, but since most attacks go through and damage values are completely static, it's extremely hard to tell what's changing unless it actually leads to a miss or a crit. Here's a userfile that goes up to the second battle of the game if anyone wants to mess around with this: User movie #637849514729792831 A few things you can mess around with:
  • Adding an Up or Down input at frame 9391 will change Kaeli's first attack to a miss.
  • Adding blank frames after the input at 9389 so that the next two A presses happen at 9396 and 9409 will also cause Kaeli's first attack to miss. Adding any input at 9408, even A, will change it back to a hit.
  • Again, delaying any input could lead to a different result down the road. Delaying multiple different inputs for various amounts of frames has different effects over delaying one input for the same amount of frames.
  • The global timer still factors in sometimes. It may factor in all the time, actually, but is interfacing with some other value(s) to produce a result.
If somebody can figure this out, even if it's the easiest thing in the world and I'm just too much of an idiot to find it myself, congratulations on the free co-authorship credit you'll get in return.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Post subject: New progress on newest emulator and newer ROM revision with new goal
Player (41)
Joined: 1/11/2023
Posts: 9
Location: The Drop Zone
After updating Bizhawk to 2.9.1 and using revision 1.1 of the ROM, I spent the day in-and-out trying to remain as close to par with DonamerDragon's published TAS. When I got past Minotaur Zombie in the Level Forest, I was as far behind as 6 seconds. A few revisions and rerecords have later reduced my deficit to about 2 seconds. The main problem with the updated emulator, and both revisions 1.0 and 1.1 of the ROM is simply the warped RNG manipulation as far as scoring critical hits, hands-down. I immediately noticed a huge difference between the complete setup in DonamerDragon's run and this setup. It has been quite a handful of trouble and on top of that, this game doesn't want you to score a critical hit easily - you have to literally go frame-by-frame. But overall, there is a new goal in mind and that is to aim for the fastest time using an inventory glitch which occurs in Fireburg. I have seen numerous attempts of this sitting on the shelf, so I am settling for this and see what results I can get out of it. If there are any improvement tips - please let me know right away, do not wait until the last minute if you can. Wish me luck. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638269587172488392
Samsara
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Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2240)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Right, FFMQ. I had intended to work on this myself last year, but the game has the most impenetrable RNG of any game I've attempted to TAS thus far, and even people with a lot more tech knowledge than me couldn't get too much closer to figuring it out. I'd love to see a new run, possibly even contribute to it if time allows, but I'm really hoping the RNG issue can be solved as I'm sure there's a ton of time to be saved in that alone.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Post subject: After Bone Dungeon
Player (41)
Joined: 1/11/2023
Posts: 9
Location: The Drop Zone
Okay, though it was adequately quick getting to the first Crystal boss, the manipulation really wore my fingers out. In the boss fight, I was barely able to keep both myself and Tristan recovered and I had to use one seed I think. I'm probably at roughly a 1 to 2 minute deficit after uploading this, and I seek arrangements to manipulate more critical hits in the boss fight and try to reduce my deficit again. I can't say things are getting worst but I've seen better days. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638270539043114328