I have intention to timeattack this game. I'm pretty confident it can be done in 45 minutes or less.
It requires a lot of planning, so if you have any suggestions, I'm waiting for them first.
Personally, I think I will start the Hero with 3 slice attack from front and Iainuki from behind as abilities. Will try to obatin 2 undead staff and 2 Undead rings for having 2 Lich in the party. Try to obtain a wyrm as soon as possible.
So the party will bet consisted of the Hero , a Wyrm (they are both in front) and 2 Lich from back. By killing bosses only and by taking the fastest path, it should be done fast.
Watch out, on some levels you need to deploy a home guard since you can't get to the boss before the monsters get to your base.
You'll probably need to buy joker cards to get past most bosses...
You'll probably need to buy joker cards to get past most bosses...
There should be two units, the Hero's unit, and an offensive unit.
Hero's unit should consist of Hero, 3 casters (2 liches and a princess/monk, or 3 liches) and a paladin (hero and paladin in the front row), rounded enough to take out anything that arrives at the base. There's no need to be concerned with it's movement rate -- it won't be going anywhere.
A second unit should consist of a princess (for the enhanced attacks), 2 liches, and a high-sky flyer. This unit will walk to the boss and should have no trouble... combined, it's something like 2 white attacks, 6 "best type" attacks and 4 physical attacks.
Initially, you'll probably need one more flying unit, to pick up crowns, staves and rings for all those liches and princesses.. but after that, it's just a matter of finding a quick and relatively enemy-free path to the boss. Still, you'll need to do some leveling as you go, or otherwise you'll never turn your wizards into mages. :p
would you be doing this for pure speed? i think it would be incredible (if not impossible) if you could keep a good alignment the whole game through.
Speed and good alignment do not go hand-in-hand. A fast good aligned win (particularly the best ending, which is the only one worth aiming at) requires too much backtracking to pick up items and visit previously visited areas.
Add to that the necessary rotation of frontline units so that you don't kill your reputation too early, and the liberation of large numbers of towns.. plus the trips to unessential maps to pick up characters 'essential' to the best win...
no, a speed run with good alignment would take far too long.. it'd be more like a walkthrough of the game than a speed run. an evil-aligned run would be okay, though, because you don't have to restrain yourself or revisit old maps.
It won't be the best nor worst ending. The worst ending is the one when Galf takes control of your body.
And the best is like fuwafuwa had described.
My strategy is very simple. My goal is to have one unit only. 2 liches, 1 princess and 1 wyrm.
No need to have a unit at the base. Why? It's a lost of time to deploy units and I prefer to level up this unit instead. Anyway you are obligated to "fight it out" ;) with this enemy troop and only this unit should be enough powerful to kill those units later in the game. So it will be played like I said.
Good luck with that... I did a run like that once when I was going through the game to get all of the endings and I thought at least one of them was too close... You'll see...
No need to have a unit at the base. Why? It's a lost of time to deploy units and I prefer to level up this unit instead.
The Lord's unit is deployed for free. And you can probably stock it for free, too.. your Lord gets EXP for free, at least, and you can fill the rest of the unit with NPCs.
But it's probably better to see what units will attack your base and then strike first with your main unit on "Leader", then retreat after crippling the unit.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
My strategy is very simple. My goal is to have one unit only. 2 liches, 1 princess and 1 wyrm.
Too bad that the hero counts as a troop.. and thus wouldn't fit in with this unit. You might be able to do Wyrm + Hero, Lich, Princess, I suppose, but that's 50% of your 'best' magic attack being replaced by a mediocre fighter.. plus you won't be able to have the princess as leader of your hero unit.
I guess the question is: Would a single hero unit be powerful enough to take out all the leaders, quickly? Recall that leader battles always have animation on -- it'd only take a few leader battles to level out the amount of time it takes to deploy a 2nd unit, if that unit can kill the leader significantly faster than the hero unit could.
Also, what happens if the enemy captures the home fort, anyway? I've never had that happen.
I guess the question is: Would a single hero unit be powerful enough to take out all the leaders, quickly? Recall that leader battles always have animation on -- it'd only take a few leader battles to level out the amount of time it takes to deploy a 2nd unit, if that unit can kill the leader significantly faster than the hero unit could.
I don't think a unit with the hero will be enough powerful.
Also, what happens if the enemy captures the home fort, anyway? I've never had that happen.
You lose the map, get a gaint reputation smack, and return to the Zeteginea map without that territory liberated.
Okay, once again this enforces the minimum of 2 units to beat the game -- one to defend the fort, and one to trash the leader.
What maps are essential to beat the game? It -looks- like
1. Castle of Warren
2. Sharom
3. Sharom District
4. Pogrom Forest OR Jannenia
5. Slums of Zenobia
6. Island Avalon
7. Kastolatian Sea OR Diaspola
8. Valley of Kastro OR Balmorian Ruins OR Kalbian Sea
9. City of Malano OR Tundra OR Antalia
10. Shangrila
11. Fort Allamoot
12. Dalmuhd Desert OR Ryhan Sea
13. Fort Shulamana OR Shrine of Kulyn
14. City of Xanadu
15. Zeteginea
16. Temple Shalina
You'd need to check gamefaqs or this site for maps of all the regions, to see which ones are the smallest maps -- some of the latter maps take quite a bit of time to cross.
Ok, so I was messing around a bit... it'd probably be faster to level up at the beginning... Warren would be a prime candidate to make into a lich, but all the units swarming around the boss make it tough to go straight there.
Yes, March of the Black Queen is.. I prefer this Ogre Battle, however. :)
Did some more planning based on the maps of the levels (found at the URL linked above)... The results appear to be:
4. Jannenia is much smaller than Pogrom Forest. If you have a flyer + 3 wizards, you can just fly over the lake and avoid most/all enemies and beat the level quickly.
7 - 9. Diaspola, Kalbian Sea and Tundra is slightly smaller than Diaspola, Kaliban, and Antalia (although the latter might be faster, because enemies will probably detour around the swamp).
Malano is too big, and it's required if you take the Kastolatian route. However, it IS walled, so enemies will detour a fair distance away from the 'direct' route. It might be possible to use that to your advantage.
12 -13. Ryhan Sea and Shrine of Kulyn is a bit smaller than Dalmuhd and Shulamana. Plus, Kulyn is mostly water.
You should be able to get some wizards to level 10 in/around Diaspola, and thus should be able to turn them into Liches right away (thanks to luck manipulation on random items), at which point the game will really speed up. You can pick up princesses at pretty much any point in the game, so i suspect you'd have one or two in tow by then, as well.
For the early levels, you might want 1-2 additional flyer units to go pick up random items.
Hello all, I'm very interested in seeing a speed run through Ogre Battle as it is probably one of my favorite games of all time.
From playing through this game well over 100 times, here are some things that will probably aid in beating it much faster.
The unit:
As has been said before, THE single most important unit to have is the princess/2 liches/wyrm. This unit will wipe out enemies in one round of attacks, is available early on as wyrm/amazon/wizard/wizard to enable good leveling.
The princess can be received very early due to random Dream Crown drops that can be influenced, and then undead staves and rings too.
Tarot and Jokers
These will be your TRUE weapons of mass destruction. Use of multiple Fortune cards can allow you to plow through units that are in your way to the end boss. They can also be used to stop your base sitting unit from fighting if need be.
For all other units that get through to your base guarder, you should use a Fool and force the weakened unit to retreat back to their own base; that buys both units more time/less enemies fought.
Sun is also a powerful card against many bosses, a few of them take such a huge amount of damage that it really doesn't matter if you lose your liches; they will be revived for the next map anyways.
In fact, defeating the first few bosses will probably be done with nothing but tarot cards to speed it up, although you would have to test this. Luck manipulation to get a constant stream of Fortunes/Fools/whatever else you may need.
Also, you might be able to fly through this just using Fortune/Fool/AoE Tarot +Death to clear units.
If such a strategy is used, the main character will want to have either Ianuke(sonic strike) or 3 Slash front attack because you will only be fighting 1 opponent per fight AND all the xp from the Death Tarot goes to the leader.
Cash
Fast cash is the most important thing I believe a run of this nature will require. There are two ways that this can be achieved, but only one appears to be "worth" it at first glance.
A heavy manipulation of luck should be used to make the highest selling items drop randomly from both killed mobs and treasure spots.
The other way to make cash is to kill all enemies, liberate all cities, then simply wait. You will keep getting tribute each day. This may be viable at some point for enough extra cash to buy more jokers. They ain't cheap at 2,000 goth each.
Your reputation suffers quite a bit doing this, although I know it's not a concern.
Another thing you may consider is that as the next "Day" is approaching, send out units with 1 wyvern/griffon/hawkman etc. to as many "safe" towns as possible, and liberate them JUST as the next day is arriving.
Bam, you get free manipulated tarots, +2,000 goth per since you won't need jokers, and then bonus tribute you wouldn't get otherwise.
You can time this to concur with your attacking unit just about to reach the boss and finish the level.
You *may* be able to buy enough jokers and finish through the game surviving on just bonus cash and vendored items, but that would need to be tested.
Time Savers and Wasters
Liberating, bonus cash, special character dialogue appearances, and anyone just generally talking to you all waste your time and should be avoided if possible.
This will restrict your cash/tarot flow however.
Conclusions
I really want to see a time attack of this game. Is it still being considered?
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I believe 2 liches will be enough if you can up their intelligence. The Liebel rod will help, not sure if it's possible to manipulate the intelligence gain or what. If you can somehow get some money to invest into intelligence potions, then you will be set. So yeah, I like your plan Phil.
But why the wyrm instead of gryphon? With gryphon you could get a hit-all attack early on and later the petrify might be useful. Also, what is your hero's power? Banish/icecloud would give you two good magic attacks but slice/ianuki gives you the most powerful hit in the game.
Edit: Oh yeah, you will have no problem getting money when enemies and treasure spots give you high-price items. Also, you'll be manipulating the maximum amount of intelligence per potion which will pump you up very quickly, it won't take much at all.
+Int should not be a problem considering he can get a "Trade Ticket" call Anywhere Jack and just buy an assload of them.
For early game I can see you maybe wanting a griffon in the back but the question is who would go in the front; the amazon?
Putting units in the front/back seems to make a difference in terms of leveling stats, as I have found wizards get huge str ups if left in the front row.
Therefore, you'd need to have the Wyrm/Griffon in front.
One reason to have the Wyrm instead of the Griffon would be that Griffon's have hi Agility, and hence attack first often; you don't want this. You want the Princess to have the most Agility to attack undead units first.
In addition, you'd prefer to have Princess/Liche/Liche go before Griffon.
Wyrms are slower hence this won't be as much of a problem.
can't you get tristan even with a crap rep metre with the key from his nurse?
hidden town west of zenobia after the map gives you the key(dunno about rep) and key gets you tristan regardless of rep i think
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
But then you'd have to go to Zenobia after the battle, wasting a lot of time. The hardcore team should be well developed long before getting Tristan, so getting him will be pointless anyway. The only reason I can think is that you could deploy him as your defensive unit and he could instantly recruit a pretty decent group. Besides, the hardcore group could simply intercept any high-flying enemies who would reach the home base before the boss could be killed.
I believe your movie ends after you beat gilbert? If not, I need some help viewing these. But I think I can see it saying "Movie Stopped" so hopefully I saw everything.
Looks good so far, although you should try to snag the extra treasure in levels that you have wait time in anyways.
Getting very expensive sellable items is surely the way to make this the fasttest possible, and you really ought to get a Trade Ticket to pump your int stats for all 3 casters.
I do suggest, however, that you use a wyrm instead of the griffon(as soon as you can make that switch) for the reasons I mentioned.
Getting gilbert might not be a bad idea because he may have better stats than the non-warren wizard, and he comes with 2 wyrms, which will allow you to have 2 more high sky flyers to bounce around the map picking up items and free tarots.
I assure you, that heavy use of tarot cards will speed up every battle, especially while waiting for mage/sorceror/liches to happen.
Nice work so far, but keep in mind, the later levels are huge and are the ones where time saving will make the most impact.
I believe your movie ends after you beat gilbert? If not, I need some help viewing these. But I think I can see it saying "Movie Stopped" so hopefully I saw everything.
Yes, it ends after Gilbert fight. The rest of the movie is just quick test and will not be in the final version.
BacardiNCola wrote:
Looks good so far, although you should try to snag the extra treasure in levels that you have wait time in anyways.
Getting very expensive sellable items is surely the way to make this the fasttest possible, and you really ought to get a Trade Ticket to pump your int stats for all 3 casters.
Well, I think by just gaining money after each stage will be sufficient. I don't think it will be needed to have that much money.
BacardiNCola wrote:
I do suggest, however, that you use a wyrm instead of the griffon(as soon as you can make that switch) for the reasons I mentioned.
Getting gilbert might not be a bad idea because he may have better stats than the non-warren wizard, and he comes with 2 wyrms, which will allow you to have 2 more high sky flyers to bounce around the map picking up items and free tarots.
I don't think doing the detour, seeing Canopus's sister, recruiting Canopus etc.. for recruiting Gilbert to have a little more stats than a default character will save me some more time. I agree that will be best to have a wyrm but recruiting one will cost me to much time. Btw, my griffin doesn't cause me much trouble.
I think recruiting Norn, I don't remember if it is a side quest map, then recruiting Debonair will be a better idea because I think my reputation gauge will be at top when reaching that stage. Then changing Norn to princess and Debonair to sorcerer. But well, I will see if the party I am using now, will be upgraded evidently, is enough powerful to complete the game. If not, I will check for this idea.
Or maybe recruiting Norn to change her to a Muse in case it failed to earn 2 "STAFF".
BacardiNCola wrote:
I assure you, that heavy use of tarot cards will speed up every battle, especially while waiting for mage/sorceror/liches to happen.
Yes, but I must save them to bosses only, especially the final ones. I don't want to loose too much time to gain them.
The strategy is simple but hard to achieve since it's hard to manipulate luck to obtain that Undead "STAFF". Anyway, the strategy is to create a party of 1 princess, 2 sorcerer, better if it is liches but I think sorcerer will be enough sufficient since it can do 3 magic attack to all and it's enough deadly plus 1 flying creature like a wyrm or griffin. But due to circumstance, I think I will have no choice but to keep the griffin. I will see later if I could use a wyrm instead.
Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 229
Location: The boonies.
Is it really necessary to go out of your way to fight the witch/octopus unit in the second stage? You shouldn't need the level, nor should you need the Merchant item it drops. Or are you thinking much further ahead than I am?
Also, it seems like you sometimes manipulate units into dealing more damage/not missing and then don't concern yourself with other attacks that miss. I realize that that's to manipulate drops a few times, but I think it happens in the boss fights, too. Are those hits that wouldn't speed up the fight anyway, or do they work out favorably further on down the line?
Is it really necessary to go out of your way to fight the witch/octopus unit in the second stage? You shouldn't need the level, nor should you need the Merchant item it drops. Or are you thinking much further ahead than I am?
The main goal for this fight wasn't to earn that Merchant but to collect that Undead ring later. The randomness is pretty complicated in this game. Not as easy as DW. All variables can change the randomness. Number of frames, position X,Y of your deployed units, what kind of units are deployed, what Tarot cards you currently have etc... Even position X,Y of your cursor :P
Earning that Merchant was a pure coincidence but it's cool to got it since I think it will help me. Maybe I am wrong.
Anyway, in other words, it was for manipulating luck.
quietkane wrote:
Also, it seems like you sometimes manipulate units into dealing more damage/not missing and then don't concern yourself with other attacks that miss. I realize that that's to manipulate drops a few times, but I think it happens in the boss fights, too. Are those hits that wouldn't speed up the fight anyway, or do they work out favorably further on down the line?
Randomness complicated and I can't do better. Maybe yes but I don't want to take 1 year to find the best or maybe you can try yourself and see :P
