skychase
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Joined: 3/25/2007
Posts: 212
Location: Quebec, Canada
I don't want to start a new thread about it but is there someone interessed in trying to make a tas of S3K the challenges hack ? With only "S" rank, it'd be awesome.
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Joined: 12/14/2009
Posts: 386
Location: Santiago, Chile
Here is codified and published the movie sonic 3 & knuckles competition.
BigBoct
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Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Interesting use of Sonic in Chrome Gadget.
Previous Name: boct1584
XkyRauh
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Joined: 6/9/2005
Posts: 171
Location: Southern California
Is there a reason you didn't go above the stage in Balloon Park? :) (Climb the wall and then just jump over the gap, getting the laps quite swiftly!)
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Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
He used the Sonic 3 & Knuckles version. That glitch is only possible on the Sonic 3 version.
marzojr
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Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 964
Location: 🇫🇷 France
Uff, finally something I like for Death Egg. I have a new WIP, but first a small preamble: in the wake of the release of Gens 11b by Adelikat -- which I was essentially already using -- and the fact that it embeds input into the savestate, making it (the savestate) not very compatible with Gens 11a, I decided to revise the procedure to generate the starting save state for the run (the old savestate is still good, mind you, it is just that the old procedure which was the issue, as it required too much dexterity to pull off). The new procedure I am using goes like this:
  1. Play the verification movie until the end; make sure to go until after the last input and stop the movie. This will generate SRAM. Note: This movie, particularly the first half of it, is terribly unoptimized since I played most of it in real time.
  2. Make sure that you do a soft reset and go to the starting menu to make sure that the SRAM has been properly generated (there should be a save with all emeralds).
  3. Go into the SRAM directory and make a backup copy of the S3&K SRAM. We will need this shortly.
  4. PAUSE the emulation.
  5. Start recording a new movie; do NOT check "Record from now and make a savestate". The movie name is irrelevant; if you paid attention to the above step, Gens will be paused.
  6. Make a savestate.
  7. Advance one frame.
  8. Load the savestate you just made. These 3 steps ensure that the movie has an empty input list.
  9. Stop the movie.
  10. Go to the SRAM directory and replace the S3&K SRAM with the 'dirty' backup copy you made in step 3.
  11. Open the movie you created in step 5. Make sure that "Clear SRAM" is UNCHECKED, and that emulation is paused.
  12. Start recording a new movie; make sure that "Record from now and make a savestate" is CHECKED. The movie name is irrelevant.
  13. Gens will prompt for the state file name; select one you will remember: this is the anchor savestate.
That was long... but it ensures consistent starting savestates. There does seem to be some variation, but it seems related to PSG starting state and doesn't seem to affect synch. There is one major advantage from this method: if you hex edit the movie to eliminate the savestate anchor (change byte 0x16 from 0x5f to 0x1f) and use the dirty SRAM from step 3, the movie will still synch -- if you make sure that "Clear SRAM" is UNCHECKED when you load the movie.
With that out of the way: here is the new WIP, which finishes the game. And here are the savestates generated by the above procedure: Gens 11a savestate; Gens 11b savestate. This WIP has one further 44-frame improvement for the any% run in Hidden Palace due to a better fight with Knuckles; final time is 0:18::26. Sky Sanctuary is identical to the any% run (one of the earlier versions, at any rate). I tried very hard to die at the starting cutscene by scrolling objects offscreen, but always came up slightly short of the mark. Death Egg 1 was annoying as hell. The time I gained from having Tails, as well as better optimization in the path to Hyper Sonic, all led to a light bridge blocking the route used in the 100% run. Waiting for it to go out would cost me all but 17 of the frames I had gained thus far; I used an alternate route that is slightly slower than the one in the 100% run, but which is faster than waiting. I don't think it is possible to gain enough frames to get to the 100% route before the light bridge appears. Slightly better optimization overall leads to a final time of 0:53::16, which is 3 seconds 47 frames faster than the 100% run. Death Egg 2 was another pain; it desynched whenever I tried something else in Death Egg 1. That should teach me to finalize Death Egg 1 before doing Death Egg 2... When I lose the shield at 0:09-0:10, I do it so I don't lose any frames from that -- I timed it so that if I spindashed 1 frame earlier, I wouldn't hit the ground and be able to jump. The resulting time gain from being able to walk through that badnik is great :-) At 0:16-0:17, that serpentine drop is hard as hell to pull off; it is worth it though. A couple of new shortcuts, an annoying sub-boss, and the battle copied from the any% run later mean a time of 1:59::33 for this level -- an improvement of 9 seconds, 13 frames over the 100% run, and a sub 2 minutes time for this level. Doomsday zone is another annoying as hell level because of luck issues. This level is also NOT a fixed length auto-scroller! I managed to do what I had deemed impossible earlier -- collect ALL rings -- but it loses too much time, so it is not on the movie. I managed to improve this level by a few frames -- last hit is at 1:30::36, last visible time is 1:33:53 (both of which show a 4 frame improvement over the 100% run), while the timer stops at 1:34::33 (3 frames better than 100% run).
Marzo Junior
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
Once again, I like what I see. Good work, marzojr.
Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 752
marzojr wrote:
Doomsday zone is another annoying as hell level because of luck issues. This level is also NOT a fixed length auto-scroller! I managed to do what I had deemed impossible earlier -- collect ALL rings -- but it loses too much time, so it is not on the movie.
If it is not too much of a hassle, is there any chance of seeing this anyway in a seperate input movie? Congrats on finishing again. Edit;
marzojr wrote:
Paused: here.
Cheers.
marzojr
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Location: 🇫🇷 France
Paused: here. This starts from the same savestate as the full movie, and goes directly to Doomsday zone. I play it only until the point where the boss is loaded (because that boss is annoying as hell to optimize), at which point it is 22 frames slower than the full movie. But now is the point I was dreading all along: submitting the movie. I don't know if the site software accepts savestate-anchored GMVs, since the format does not allow embedding of the savestate in the GMV. And the same goes for SRAM. Hm. I think I'll poke around in IRC.
Marzo Junior
BigBoct
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Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
As long as you provide the savestate or a compatible SRAM, as well as the verification movie, there's no reason the site wouldn't accept it, I think. The upload script no longer rejects movies for noncompliance with standard rules, it simply outputs a warning on the submission page.
Previous Name: boct1584
GGG
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Joined: 12/11/2009
Posts: 57
Location: USA
I have a question where they got S3&KCamhack
marzojr
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Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 964
Location: 🇫🇷 France
It was written by Nitsuja and Upthorn; nowadays, it is on the Gens source tree and can be compiled in by defining a few variables. I have compiled versions for the latest SVN with the options listed in the submissions for Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K and Sonic CD. A quick primer: Scroll lock toggles the camhack on or off (it is the opposite of scroll lock). If camhack is on and the currently selected object (starts on Sonic) moves offscreen, the camera will center on that object. You can cycle through objects with page up/page down (useful to watch what Tails is doing), or press 'home' to return to Sonic. Numlock toggles display of ground angles and object RAM addresses; the RAM addresses have to be prepended with FF. Most of the time, you should leave numlock off. The solidity display uses color overlays to indicate solidity of tiles; a green overlay indicates that the tile is top solid, a red overlay indicates solidity from the bottom and sides, a blue overlay indicates solidity on all sides, and no overlay means no solidity.
Marzo Junior
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Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Is it me or is there a mistake in the NG+ TAS? In Death Egg 2, you take a detour at 0:28 to pick up 3 ring boxes. However you finish the boss with 41 rings spare, so you can do without those boxes, right? Or is there something less obvious that requires them?
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Posts: 226
it looks to me like he went in there to do a zip, and got the 3 ring boxes in the process.
marzojr
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FuzZerd is correct, the rings monitors are just in the way of the zip. That said, watching it more carefully, it does seem to be possible to do it by taking only of the monitors; I will look into it, but even if it turns out to be possible, it may not be worth it: at best, it will save about 5-6 frames; however, it will probably force me to redo the DEZ2 mini-boss because Tails will appear 5-6 frames late (and that boss tends to desynch horribly because of poor programming -- Tails and hyperlaunch interact very poorly), and it will almost certainly force me to redo Doomsday zone (which will desynch due to luck). Edit: There were 10 frames saved by picking only one of the monitors. The mini-boss desynched and had to be replayed (as predicted) and Doomsday desynched and had to be replayed (also, as predicted). Replaying Doomsday was as painful as ever, but I managed to gain a few more frames in it despite slightly worse luck. I have submitted the file to a judge with the request to replace the current submission.
Marzo Junior
GGG
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Posts: 57
Location: USA
Well I tried to improve in time marzojr in Sonic100% and I did, so now I'm playing Angel Island 1 (0:56.15) that of marzojr (0:56.20), so far I'm getting better Angel Island 2, which is still not ready, maybe the will be ready for tomorrow
marzojr
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Location: 🇫🇷 France
Yeah, there are several parts of the 100% run that can be improved, even without the new tricks involving horizontal underflow. If the newgame+ does not obsolete the 100% run, I might revise it one day; if it does obsolete it, there is really no point.
Marzo Junior
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Joined: 8/22/2008
Posts: 301
Location: Brazil
Yes, I think the New Game+ TAS should to obsolete the 100% TAS really. That puzzles are very boring.
marzojr
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First WIP of the any% run, up to the end of Hydrocity 1. I have been utterly unsuccessful in my attempts to improve Angel Island -- everything I tried either didn't work or was slower. Hydrocity 1, on the other hand, was much kinder -- improved precision at the beginning, two new shortcuts and a lightning shield combine to an improvement of 2 seconds, 39 frames over the published run -- and an exact 2 seconds faster than the newgame+ version. Final time: 0:30::26. I can almost replicate the quick death glitch from the newgame+ run at the expense of a slightly slower boss fight; but it is very hard to manipulate the boss to be loaded in the object slot I want as any objects that appear will use that slot if it is free. This includes rings, the hidden end of act monitors and even the drowning countdown object...
Marzo Junior
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Posts: 386
Location: Santiago, Chile
Hehehe. I have improved time competition in 5 seconds. Sonic is placed in the position of the rocks on the fifth level. So there is no need to re-break.
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
marzojr wrote:
Hydrocity 1, on the other hand, was much kinder -- improved precision at the beginning, two new shortcuts and a lightning shield combine to an improvement of 2 seconds, 39 frames over the published run
This is promising. Good luck replicating the quick death glitch with regular Sonic; it would be a nice addition to the run. :D
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
upthorn
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
marzojr wrote:
I can almost replicate the quick death glitch from the newgame+ run at the expense of a slightly slower boss fight; but it is very hard to manipulate the boss to be loaded in the object slot I want as any objects that appear will use that slot if it is free. This includes rings, the hidden end of act monitors and even the drowning countdown object...
Rings won't, unless pulled by a lightning shield or ejected when sonic gets hit. Layout rings have an entirely separate table in RAM from other objects, which is only 2 bytes per ring (animation number and frame, or FFFF if collected). The position in-level is pulled directly from ROM. It's only when the lightning shield pulls them that an object will spawn from them. The bouncing rings after sonic is hit, though, are always normal objects.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
marzojr
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upthorn wrote:
Rings won't, unless pulled by a lightning shield or ejected when sonic gets hit.
The problem is that I *do* have a lightning shield, so the rings get in the way :-) I am actually trying to manipulate one of the rings be pulled by the shield to load in the desired slot and have it follow me down enough so that the end of act monitors do not get the slot; I then have to get the ring to free the slot, and avoid triggering the drowning counters before the boss loads. It is very hard to time everything correctly without losing too much time...
Marzo Junior
marzojr
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Ah, success! I managed to replicate the trick with regular Sonic; by the time Sonic was inside the final loop, all stunts were for naught as the boss object was already loaded elsewhere; so I had to go slightly earlier. The final cost is 34 frames in Hydrocity 1, for an even 0:31. Given that I gain 3 seconds, 47 frames from the faster death, I profit from the exchange. I am ahead by 5 seconds, 52 frames already.
Marzo Junior
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
Congratulations! However, I liked seeing Tails standing on water in your previous run.
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!