An any% run with Tails would make a lot more sense than a 100% run with Tails: it would be a lot faster and more entertaining, as there are no routes for Super Tails which Tails cannot follow with slightly more work -- even Super Tails' spindash is only slightly faster than that of normal Tails'.
I'd prefer any% Tails over start-from-100%-save Tails too, for that matter, since it would save us from having to listen to the super music all the time.
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Derakon wrote:
I'd prefer any% Tails over start-from-100%-save Tails too, for that matter, since it would save us from having to listen to the super music all the time.
No kidding! I always wondered why the Super Sonic music was so much shorter (and so much more annoying) in 3&K than it was in 2. >:{
New WIP until the end of Marble Garden 2. The route is slightly more optimized than the any% run, being 18 frames faster.
For those that missed this post, I switched to a less arbitrary initial save state which is needed for this WIP to synch.
New WIP, up to the end of Launch Base 2.
Carnival Night 1 is identical with the any% run. It is almost possible to improve it by a few frames with Hyper Sonic -- but Hyper Sonic just can't get to the boss quite fast enough as it takes too long to get all rings.
Carnival Night 2, IceCap and both Launch Base levels see some improvements from Hyper Sonic:
Carnival Night 2 0:40::38 ( 93)
IceCap 0:59::57 ( 88)
Launch Base 1 0:32::18 ( 323)
Launch Base 2 0:42::58 (1318)
Once again, the number in parenthesis indicate how many frames the level is faster than the any% run.
Not included in the above table is the fact that the cutscene after killing the last boss in Launch Base is more glitched and slightly shorter (9 frames) than the any% run.
When I try to play this movie, it says: Error, problem loading savestate. Is Gens 11a not the right version required to play this?
Tried changing the name of the save state to both the ROM's name and the movie's name, but it still doesn't work.
How the hell does that qualify as generic zipping? It definitely looks like you used the horizontal underflow.
Loved Launch Base 2. I didnt know you could zip using the pipes. Would that cound towards an improvement towards the any%?
New WIP up to the end of Mushroom Hill 2. The times:
Mushroom Hill 1 0:36::37 (578)
Mushroom Hill 2 0:34::36 (183)
Again, the parenthesis indicate how many frames the WIP is faster than the any% run.
In the first level, I delay the last hit so that I can activate the glitch in the second act -- I have to wait until the screen is unlocked. Then, I kill the boss with Tails because I need the lightning shield: in act 2, the off-screen loops are "broken", similar to the any% run -- but they are in the opposite direction from the any% run, making the fire shield useless. The lightning shield helps quite a bit but, in the end, the different brokenness of the loops costs me time anyway because I have to wait until the screen catches up to the red spring, as even the lightning shield doesn't let me reach the top of that loop. Tails is also useless in that regard because he (a) doesn't stay close to Sonic long enough before re-spawning and (b) to help Sonic, Tails has to be above the enforced top of the screen, meaning he cannot fly going up. Sadly, I can't turn into Hyper Sonic while the score tally is showing, or the problem would be solved...
Nevertheless, despite all of these troubles, I *still* manage to beat the any% time by 3 seconds in Mushroom Hill 2. Hyper Sonic for the win :-)
A curiosity: it is *almost* possible to zip past the entire act 2 -- using the glitch used in the WIP/any% run, you can get inside the terrain, jump down until close to the bottom (after the act starts) and zip right until you reach a giant ring room. It isn't faster, though, because you have to wait for the level to start before you can zip. Also, the giant ring room is locked from the outside, and all my attempts of escaping it failed.
Sonikkustar wrote:
How the hell does that qualify as generic zipping? It definitely looks like you used the horizontal underflow.
In Launch Base 1, horizontal underflow was indeed used; the generic zipping bit was referring to Launch Base 2.
Sonikkustar wrote:
Loved Launch Base 2. I didnt know you could zip using the pipes. Would that cound towards an improvement towards the any%?
No, only Hyper Sonic can zip like that: while some wall entrances done with hyper launch ability can be reproduced with a bubble shield bounce, they work differently enough that they are not perfect substitutes. A few examples:
Hyper launch may fail to duplicate bubble bounce: In Carnival Night 2, when hyper launching into the spinning cylinder to get inside the wall (first zip), Hyper Sonic can't go as far down as the bubble bounce from the any% run because Sonic bounces "up" again inside the wall, causing Sonic to fall further;
Bubble bounce may fail to duplicate hyper launch: In Mushroom Hill 1, that hyper launch into the ground that enables be me to perform an horizontal underflow cannot be replicated by Sonic with a bubble bounce (and for the same reason given in the previous item);
Both may work: In carnival Night 2, the second wall entrance can be done with either.
This post is especially intended for Nitsuja or Upthorn or whoever else knows how it is done: in Flying Battery 1, time index 0:27::41 (frame 58548 of the published any% run), a spindash is performed while under the antigravity glitch; normally, Sonic goes out of balance. I am trying to replicate it but failing miserably, and am looking for pointers.
The reason I ask is because I found a new shortcut for the start of Flying Battery 1, which leads to that same location but about 3 seconds faster (this shortcut is also usable for the any% run, as it doesn't require Hyper Sonic). The new shortcut is here, starting from the included savestate for convenience. Warning: this savestate will only load in the SVN version, crashing the release.
This post is especially intended for Nitsuja or Upthorn or whoever else knows how it is done: in Flying Battery 1, time index 0:27::41 (frame 58548 of the published any% run), a spindash is performed while under the antigravity glitch; normally, Sonic goes out of balance. I am trying to replicate it but failing miserably, and am looking for pointers.
Only Nitsuja has done this, I suspect it has something to do with lag that only exists when Tails is present, but I am in no way certain.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I think it has to do with having an X position that exactly lines up with a tile boundary, and also having a small but nonzero X velocity when you duck.
It doesn't seem to be the tile boundary thing: in the any% run, the x position is 5001:227 when nitsuja starts the spindash. I think that I will try making a random input generator and leaving it to run until I get the spindash...
Edit: forgot to mention: this is with Tails trying to generate as much lag as possible.
It doesn't seem to be the tile boundary thing: in the any% run, the x position is 5001:227 when nitsuja starts the spindash. I think that I will try making a random input generator and leaving it to run until I get the spindash...
Edit: forgot to mention: this is with Tails trying to generate as much lag as possible.
Sonic's width is 9 (from center), which means that at 5001, his leftmost ground-detection hotspot is at 4992 -- an exact multiple of 128.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Yeah, well, then it is definitely not just that -- I managed to get position in the right range with subpixel position very close to Nitsuja's and small (4 subpixels/frame) velocity when ducking, all to no avail. With Tails around flying and generating lag.
Maybe I was wrong about the position mattering (and I'm sure lag doesn't matter). The requirement seems to be that Sonic must start his skidding animation and then reach a speed of 0 before the skidding animation finishes playing and without turning around. If you're holding down when it happens then he should go straight from skidding to ducking for a few frames and that's your opening.
There's something weird going on, though, because sometimes you can enter a mode where he stands normally on everything and can easily spindash for a while. But this is the trick I did when it would waste too much time to get into that mode.
I've been thinking about this lately. It seems like this would be a good but hard game for me to TAS. But honestly, I had more fun TASing Sonic 3 & Knuckles than on the NES. XD
I had also been searching for poteintal improvements & so far, I found one in Sky Sanctuary.
The question is though...Should I make a TAS of S3&K?
I mean I know that marzojr is doing an awesome TAS as of now. But, I was hoping I could be able to do a share of help for the goal of perfection. I know im terrible at TASing Sonic, but I thought I could at least try to splice the improvements in without all those pauses from the recent any% marzojr mentioned.
Unless it has a different feel to it, I dont think its worth it.
I'll try on that first though. :)
This is what I have. Do you guys think I'm good enough to do a full TAS?
EDIT: I just found a 2 frame save in FB2.
First of all sorry if this is in the wrong forum, if so please tell me which it belongs to. I am new to making TAS runs but they fascinate me and I was hoping someone can give me a good tutorial on how to do level wrapping or good spots to do screen wrapping. I know how to screen wrap but don't know many good places. So the main point is if you have any glitches or fast routes for Sonic 3 & Knuckles please share them with me. Thanks
