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Posted: 11/13/2008 6:32 AM
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Creatus
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 81
Location: Finland
I think that biggest problem is that you have to find furthes possible spot where you can turn back and cutter still returns. Because as far as I know, you don't have time to gain heart tank while you are falling to the pit.
Posted: 11/13/2008 6:35 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
So some sort of double-jump trick might be all that's needed?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/13/2008 7:15 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
or maybe some sort of double-trick jump.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 11/14/2008 5:45 AM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
I've been thinking about the 100% route, and I think I may have a pretty radical change. It is probably slower, but I figured it would be worth mentioning. First stage would be armored armadillo. The stage would be slower with the lack of leg upgrade, but I think the loss would not be substantial. Before getting to armored armadillo, X kills himself however many times are required to get the capsule to appear (I think 3), but leaving X with just a single life in the end (which will make sense later). Kill armored armadillo. Hopefully the fight can be done fast enough with just the x buster, if not the route probably fails. Next up go to chill penguin, get the leg upgrade. After getting the upgrade, commit suicide. Since you only have one life left, you can now go directly back to the stage select screen. The route can now diverge from here. Option 1 is to play every single boss in order of their weaknesses starting with launch octopus. Option 2 is to go and kill boomer kuwanger to get the incredibly useful boomerang. If it is faster to kill boomer with the homing torpedo, then this would need to be tested. Since option 2 seems to make more sense I would go with that. Kill boomer and get the boomerang. Next up kill launch octopus (you have the rolling shield at this point) and get the heart tank from his level while you're at it. Now that launch octopus is dead, the forest level will have water in it. Go to the forest and collect the heart tank and the chest upgrade. Kill chameleon with boomerang. Kill storm eagle next; having the chameleon sting should be helpful here. After eagle, kill the flame mammoth and collect the goods from his level. Now that you finally got the flame thrower, you can go back to chill penguin's stage and finish him off. You can also collect his heart tank too, due to having the flame. Take the shotgun ice and pwn sparkmandrill. Finally you can revisit armored armadillo's stage. Collect the hearth tank and the etank while here. The haduken capsule should now appear upon the very first visit, since you have previously been there 3 times. --------------------------- The benefit of this route is that the chill penguin "revisit" from the old route is drastically reduced. The route also allows more bosses to be fought with their weakness weapons. The negative side of this route is that the entire armadillo stage is played without the leg upgrade and the armadillo is killed with only the x buster. Any feedback would be welcomed.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:30 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1417)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Potential problem: Mammoth's level has a heart tank deep under a platform that's barely above the lava pool that doesn't cool off until Penguin is killed. Unless I am *completely* missing something (perhaps you'll have enough health to deal with it), that could definitely throw things out of whack.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:44 AM
(Edited: 11/14/2008 6:53 AM)
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
It doesn't seem hopeful at all. First, about Armadillo before Penguin: - There are significantly long walking sections. Not as long as some levels but still very long. I estimate at least 20 seconds of dashing. That's maybe 45 seconds to walk. Difference is 25 seconds. Edit: Not considering the death visits for the hadoken capsule. - Armored Armadillo is worse without E. Spark. Twice as bad without dash, since you can't do 2 damage with one shot. At least 27 seconds (assuming ideal) versus about 10 with E. Spark and XB Upgrade. Difference is 17 seconds. I'm pretty sure that suiciding 3 times after getting Dash Boots is faster. In fact, it was something I considered at one time. However, there are still problems: - I estimate 5 seconds saved from Chill Penguin (Fire Wave + XB Upgrade) and 10 seconds from the route not retraced. However, suiciding takes a long time, at least 10 seconds each death. - You have to go through the Chill Penguin Intro again, another 10 seconds. In any case, I am very pleased that you have wishful thinking, just like me. It's the reason amazing becomes true.
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:44 AM
(Edited: 11/14/2008 6:49 AM)
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
in regards to ferret's question, The boomerang can get that. I believe that is the method which was used in fractal's test run. fractal, yeah, I figured the loses from my route idea would out weigh the small gains. Thanks for breaking it down for me.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:47 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Yes, hero is right about the Boomerang getting the heart tank. Note that Launch Octopus is not recommended before Storm Eagle, due to the sea serpents and the ship (which is faster to bring down if you have Storm Tornado and XB Upgrade).
Posted: 11/14/2008 6:48 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1417)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
So I *did* completely miss something. Perhaps I should just leave things back in the hands of you experts. :P
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 11/14/2008 1:01 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Oh, I was expecting you'd just take a dip in the lava, because that seems to be what you have to do in the Game Boy version, where there isn't anything that turns the lava to ash or frost or whatever. It was also strange how that game let you cut off Launch Octopus's tentacles, but not Flame Mammoth's trunk.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/16/2008 9:02 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I don't think Ogreslayer's statement of being one frame from getting the heart was an exageration. I managed to come two frames from getting it. Anyway I concede that it's impossible and doing Storm Eagle next.
Posted: 11/16/2008 11:18 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
And this is after checking your fractional pixel positions and everything?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/17/2008 12:43 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I did keep an eye on the value of the furthest position X can be away from the ledge and still be possible to hop off of it. I got to the point where I was two frames away from that position. X would fall in the pit and the boomerang holding the heart would come closing in.
Posted: 11/21/2008 2:48 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Hey Fractal, is there a certain reason why you broke the glass with a fully charged shot in your test run? I noticed Frezy also did it in his speedrun. I shot it with just a regular shot and didn't notice any difference. I'm close to Storm Eagle and want to be absolutely sure it's not better to do it that way before I move on.
Posted: 11/21/2008 8:11 PM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
It doesn't matter. I assume you tested out whether going to the Sub Tank from the left is faster than going from the right .
Posted: 11/21/2008 10:04 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Yeah, even with all that lag it's still faster by a wide margin to get it from the left. edit: Beat Storm Eagle's stage. I think the level itself is pretty optimized but I'm not certain with the boss battle. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/167847583/mmx100tas.smv
Posted: 11/22/2008 6:25 AM
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Xkeeper
Banned User
Joined: 12/23/2004
Posts: 1850
I get a desync on this after you break the glass. :|
Perma-banned
Posted: 11/22/2008 7:10 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
No desyncs for me on the latest Snes9x v1.43 (v15.3) and MMX ROM V1.1. I'll accept this boss battle, as there's not much you can do. Scratch that, I'll see if it is possible to improve it. I remember DeHackEd's old run does the same thing, but in that run, the timing was different so that he didn't have to waste time after the charged shot. dezbeast, I noticed that you like to stand around a lot. Try to do something else (e.g. autojump, autodash). There's a type of autodash that I like to do. When X is at rest, pressing back while autofiring dash causes X to dash on the spot. Other waiting tricks that I like to do are the jump wobble (left-right-left-right in air; cannot be done on ground because of dash), autowalljump, and pressing left or right every three frames grabbing the wall.
Posted: 11/22/2008 11:47 PM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I was able to save 59 frames on the Storm Eagle battle. I got him to stay on the ground the whole time. Instead of acting like a mad man throughout the whole run, I was going to conserve doing funny things so it doesn't get old too fast to the viewer.
Posted: 11/23/2008 12:08 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
65+31 frames faster. 2 before the boss, 63 on the boss, and 31 after boss explosion. I love walls. P.S. If you did it without using the wall method, that's really good luck.
Posted: 11/23/2008 1:57 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I did use the wall. I don't know why, but I thought that jumping over him without taking damage was not possible while he flaps his wings which left me little time with the wall. So I figured delaying frames before going on the lift was the only other option. I'm glad you improved the battle by so much. Anyway, is there anything I should look out for in the next level?
Posted: 11/23/2008 6:57 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
dezbeast wrote:
I don't know why, but I thought that jumping over him without taking damage was not possible while he flaps his wings which left me little time with the wall.
In a way, I implied it (without saying directly) in one of my previous posts. I thought it was impossible too, until I tried. Storm Eagle's hitbox is smaller than it looks, and there is no wind pushing if you go far enough (about where Storm Eagle's head is). As for Flame Mammoth's stage: - The junk blocks that drop from the ceiling can speed you up a little bit by zipping. Check the current any% run. - Charged Shotgun Ice is useful to reach the Sub Tank area; check the 100% test run. - Try to beat Flame Mammoth so that he is off-screen (same as what I did to Storm Eagle). Remember that X must be in the center of the screen (not necessarily the room) at battle end. - You can try, if you wish, to save time by hitting Flame Mammoth with two charged Storm Tornados. I don't know if it can save time.
Posted: 11/26/2008 12:26 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Flame Mammoth's level is done unless anyone can spot any obvious errors. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1713010957/mmx100tas.smv
Posted: 11/26/2008 12:53 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2079)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
I like that you didn't destroy all the blocks leading up to the capsule. Good job as usual. Spark Mandrill's stage: - There is a button to turn off the darkness; by default it is the '9' key. - Against Thunder Slimer (the miniboss) use charged Storm Tornado followed by Boomerang Cutter or dashing X-Buster. Try to get the miniboss on the ground as soon as possible. It is strange but normal that the first shot with the charged Storm Tornado does 2 instead of 4. Other minibosses are like that as well.
Posted: 12/2/2008 1:23 AM
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dezbeast
Former player
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
I'm done Spark Mandrill's level. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1058517587/mmx100tas.smv I did a ratio with your test run up to this point and determined that this run should be around 33:49 assuming the time savings stay consistent.
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