Post by DK64_MASTER

Posted: 6/16/2007 2:23 AM

Post subject: Scrabble

Quote

flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

It looks like there is a scrabble game for gba and another for gbc. I haven't played them, but I'd like to throw out there the idea of making a scrabble tas. Some amazingly things could be done with careful luck manipulation and planning. It could be fun to destroy the computer, but also break many real world records such as 392 points in 1 turn. See records at wikipedia I think the best goal would be to aim for highest score. A question would be whether to make it versus the AI or make it a 2 player movie to cooperate to achieve very high scores (I am assuming both of these modes are available). I am not planning on working on this, but I am curious to hear what you think of the potential of this game.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 6/16/2007 2:28 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

The amount of luck manipulation needed might make this tas kinda ugly. Still though, if someone can do it gracefully, I would watch.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 6/16/2007 3:46 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Wordtris for SNES presents a similar challenge for TASing (and has 2-player cooperative as well). The result could be cool but with so many choices it's very hard to plan.

Posted: 6/16/2007 9:29 PM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Well, I imagine it would be a build-up to something like this. Fastest time to achieve the highest-scoring move possible.

Posted: 6/17/2007 1:48 AM

Quote

flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

The lot of planning would be the fun part. I tried to figure out how to get a ton of points in 1 turn and here is the best I could do: http://www.darrenks.com/temp/conceptualizing.jpg

c o n c e p t u a l i z  i n g
3 1 1 3 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 10 1 1 2
     *2              *2
------------------------------
44 * 3 * 3 * 3 (3 tripple word scores)
= 1188

n y m p h o m a n i a c
1 4 3 0 4 1 3 1 1 1 1 3
-----------------------
23 * 3 (1 tripple word score)
= 69

s y l l a b i c
1 4 1 1 1 3 1 3
             *2
= 18

q  u i p u
10 1 1 3 1
16 * 3
= 48

f r i t z
4 1 1 1 10
       *2
= 27

j e r k i n g
8 1 1 5 1 1 2
19 * 3
= 57

for a grand total of
1188 + 69 + 18 + 48 + 27 + 57 + (50 all used)
            +----+
            |1457|
            +----+

Dang, I was just about to post this and I see someone has beaten me. Edit: turned picture to a link, it was too huge. In my defense most of those words they use aren't in my dictionary which I thought had every official scrabble word, but I guess I was wrong. I'll look into this, meanwhile here is the wordlist that i used

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 6/17/2007 3:00 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

Try Oxyphenbutizone or Cephalothoraxes both 15 letters, and have more of the high scoring tiles.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 6/17/2007 1:58 PM
(Edited: 6/17/2007 4:14 PM)

Quote

flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Better wordlist here: http://www.scrabulous.com/twl_dictionary.php In this list, oxyphenbutazone is the best playable word counting where the doubles are at. But for a tas, would be best to extract what ever dictionary the game uses. Edit: using new word list you can get 1783 oxyphenbutizone with "bladderlike", "ejaculated", "equalities", "opacifying", "preinterviewing", "thenceforward", "zoogametes". This uses the official scrabble word list. It could be a little higher if you try and hook in 2 more words, but that makes it very difficult and won't add much.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 6/17/2007 3:12 PM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Are you sure they can be "reached"? With my route, you can spell: Jun Conjunct Conjunctiva Bat Be Awe Was Ohs (H is blank) Em Graph Autograph Radioautograph Gannet No Go Ho Lei (L is blank) Finikin Fade We Wry Oxy Methoxy Methoxyflurane Oe Or Er Spelt Leet (Yes, I did deliberately save Spell and Leet for last) Lib Librate Disequilibrate And, finally, Demythologizers. If we could master luck-manipulation, I think it would be really funny to have the computer spell all the really high-scoring words while the player spells Oe, Or and Er in 3 moves. Then, with one fell swoop, utter victory. If there's a resignation function, the movie could end right there as all the points rack up.

Posted: 6/17/2007 4:18 PM

Quote

flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

I have not verified the route for oxyphenbutazone with 1783, but it is highly probable it can be done judging from my experience with getting conceptualization to work. Earlier I mentioned goal of tas=max total score, but I think that this would basically done by getting 2 huge words, each using 3 tripples. Everything else is pretty minor when compared to *27. So your idea of a huge comeback could be still done one last two turns.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 6/17/2007 5:04 PM

Quote

Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Can you post a picture of it?

Posted: 6/17/2007 5:09 PM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

the 15 letter triple triple triple will be almost for sure the best total score, but setting up all of the extra words that get added to by that play are probably not worth it; there is probably a better way of using those turns.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 6/17/2007 5:52 PM

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karterfreak

Joined: 4/5/2007
Posts: 72

If you could somehow get this board setup, i will instantly vote yes ^_^ (for those too lazy to figure it out, it would say unscrambles this is the worst tool assisted speed run ever) It would only be for a good joke though. =)

Posted: 6/17/2007 5:57 PM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Why not write the word THIS, have the AI write IS, write A, have the AI write TOOL, ASSISTED, AI writes SPEED, you write RUN?

Posted: 6/17/2007 6:01 PM

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karterfreak

Joined: 4/5/2007
Posts: 72

either one would be awesome to see, but considering that this isnt really a tas, more like a superplay, i thought it would be funny to add a little humour to it.

Posted: 6/17/2007 7:38 PM
(Edited: 6/17/2007 11:01 PM)

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flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Heh, you could always add funny stuff in with the extra letters and still get a high score. PS, why am I always getting sexual words, nymphomaniac, ejaculating, etc (I'm not a pervert, my computer program comes up with these words automatically).

Chamale wrote:

Can you post a picture of it?

this is worth 1776 using the official scrabble dictionary. http://www.darrenks.com/temp/oxyphenbutazone.jpg edit: oops its 1776 forgot to add 50 for all used.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 6/17/2007 8:29 PM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (89)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States

The main problem with all these words is that some of them are not recognized in the GBA game. The game is from 2001 and I am pretty sure it uses a different/dumbed-down word list. I could not play the word JUN, which is the key starting word in the strategy posted by Chamale. Though after it is figured out which words can and cannot be played, a new strategy can be developed. Since the game allows for a 1 player game and you can select your tiles manually, a TAS aiming for highest score would be ridiculously easy to make.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 6/25/2007 5:20 AM

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose

I'm surpised that there are no 15 letter words that can be formed that have either an x, q, j, or z on both of the double letter marks. I mean, a P or C is ok, even a W would be better.

<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~

Posted: 6/25/2007 5:48 AM

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OmnipotentEntity

He/Him

Player (36)

Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2631

I doubt the built in dictionary carries words longer than 8 letters long.

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 6/25/2007 7:50 AM

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KevDude

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 2

I've found another resource with information on theoretical scrabble records (see the "theoretical" and "blocked games" section of "Scrabble Records").

Posted: 6/25/2007 9:19 AM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

Is there not some program that can figure out the best words given the what the player has in the rack and the given board situation, I've heard many pro players use this to study and improve there game.

Posted: 6/25/2007 4:28 PM

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flagitious

Player (201)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Thanks KevDude for that link, they beat me by two points grr. AKA, there are programs that do that, but a program that can do only that isn't that useful for this because you have to plan the whole game ahead of time. Here is one I wrote a long time ago, there are most definitely better ones out there though. To run do make, then "brute words3"

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 7/11/2007 2:14 PM

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Derk

Joined: 4/9/2004
Posts: 18

A quick note about this game... there are some programming errors in the game that I found and acknowledged by Ubisoft. I played GRENADES on a triple-triple and it turned it into GRENADEG on the board, and you can only score a maximum of 100 points in a turn.

Posted: 7/11/2007 5:43 PM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (182)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada

Well, there goes all our planning... I don't much see the point if we can't score over 100. I mean, there are opening draws that score over 120! I.E. CAZIQUE, BEZIQUE or MUZJIKS. What were they thinking, not even allowing for the possibility of someone putting down "Quiz[z]es" on a triple word score? (Yes, that has happened to me).

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