Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Phil:
Those 2 statements in no way contradict one another.
Phil:
The goal is perfection. Perfection is unobtainable, but it can still be a goal. Also let us not forget about the entertainment these movies provide.
Phil:
I agree that competition breeds perfection. I even stated that during the monopoly wars. I believe in friendly competition. Share your knowledge, then make your separate runs.
Baxter:
If the amount of work you put into a run really mattered, wouldn't it be exciting to see someone else beat your run knowing how much extra work they must have put into it? Maybe it is just me, but it doesn't bother me when one of my runs gets obsoleted.
Also, Upthorn is exactly right.
Baxter:
If the amount of work you put into a run really mattered, wouldn't it be exciting to see someone else beat your run knowing how much extra work they must have put into it? Maybe it is just me, but it doesn't bother me when one of my runs gets obsoleted.
I never disagreed on whether it's exiting if someone beats your work knowing how much work they must have put into it. The point I was making was that the amount of work you put into it mostly will correspond to how much you are attached to it. Being attached to it doesn't mean you can't be happy if someone makes a good improvement to your run.
Upthorn wrote:
When a poster says that there are possible improvements, but not explaining what they are is just as useful as keeping it secret that there are possible improvements. Unless you explain how to perform the improvements, noone will be able to find them except you, so the improvements are still secret, unless you reveal the methods when asked.
NES Monopoly in 00:34 by Phil, 2006-02-26 [published]
NES Monopoly in 00:32 by Acmlm, 2006-03-02 [rejected]
NES Monopoly in 00:32 by hero of the day, 2006-03-09 [cancelled]
NES Monopoly in 00:31 by Acmlm, 2006-03-10 [rejected]
NES Monopoly in 00:30 by hero of the day, 2006-03-11 [cancelled]
NES Monopoly in 00:30 by Acmlm, 2006-03-14 [published]
NES Monopoly in 00:27 by FractalFusion 2006-08-24 [cancelled]
Even though it is about 3 seconds faster, the last one was cancelled for several reasons; it uses a questionable strategy (causing the computer to trade money away, and therefore would have been published as a different run), and could be 8 frames faster at the cost of being less entertaining (according to the author).
I think we should make movies because they deserve to be made, not because we deserve credit.
If I made a movie which gets beaten by 30 frames, I would be happy about it. The new movie deserved to be made because the new shortcut was found.
If the shortcut uses a controversial technique, the question would become "Did BOTH of the movies deserve to be made?"
#1 - Do not keep secrets. People who keep secrets are playing for pride or ego. Keeping secrets just so your run will be better than someone else's when you are done is just foolish and counterproductive. All information should be shared with the community in order to produce the best possible movie, regardless of author.
This only applies to a popular and well contested game such as... Super Metroid. So just becuase I want to improve a sub cult game a.k.a Chuck Rock. Does that mean I have to tell everyone I'm working on an improvement and what improvements I've discovered?
I was under the impression that the whole "keeping secrets" business had to do with things like not explaining the tricks you use in a movie so that nobody else can use them "against" you, not keeping your projects a secret.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
I was under the impression that the whole "keeping secrets" business had to do with things like not explaining the tricks you use in a movie so that nobody else can use them "against" you, not keeping your projects a secret.
Yes, that is pretty much what I meant. It only applies when you know a fellow TASer is also working on the same game as you. If you were working on Chuck Rock and no one else was, it wouldn't really matter if you posted about some technique you found.
If you are not enough patient to study the movie to understand those "supposed" "secrets", then you are no match to do that game. Sorry but that's a fact. Giving you the answer won't help but if you find it by yourself, you will understand the logic and maybe create a better movie. That's how I work when I improve a run. And so far, not to praise myself, I almost always did great movies.
Whining and such won't help you. You are pretty lucky that some people do those movies and took hours and hours of their free time. Do you think that they want to write novels just to explain you things.
Hero of the day: Also, if you want to be it then start doing it yourself because I don't even remember you doing that.
Mr. JXQ: When I said there are minor errors, do you think I must write a novel? Because that's what I will need. When there a 50 minor errors and that it needs 20 lines or so trying to describe each of them, no, I don't want to do that. I am saying they are there so that maybe you could notice them yourself since you did tased it, you should have enough experience. Apparently, it works since you intend to improve it without telling anybody what you are trying to improve which makes you not even better than me.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Are you serious phil?
I am not complaining or whining at all. I just stated the rules I live by. If people don't want to share their tips then it is no skin off my teeth.
You have made some great movies. But you are a dickhead when it comes to criticizing someone else's work. On NUMEROUS occasions you have said that other people's movies contain errors, and failed to state what they were. You claim that DonamerDragon's SMB2 movie has flaws, yet his movie was better than yours. What does that make you? Seems like you missed all of his little improvements in your run didn't you.
I don't need help making my movies. I know what I am doing, otherwise I would not have chosen to TAS a particular game. I just get pissed when someone tells me that I can do it faster or better without explaining how.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Vatchern:
Maybe 3 or 4 movies have achieved "perfection". Do we know for a fact that those really cannot be improved further? Perfection is a relative term. Perfect now, later... maybe not.
You claim that DonamerDragon's SMB2 movie has flaws, yet his movie was better than yours. What does that make you? Seems like you missed all of his little improvements in your run didn't you.
Where, When?????? Is it an attempt to insult me?
mmbossman: Searching verb "to dwarf". Nothing found. Rephrase it.
Main Entry: dwarf
Function: verb
transitive verb
1 : to restrict the growth of : STUNT
2 : to cause to appear smaller or to seem inferior <has dwarfed the achievements of her predecessors>
intransitive verb : to become smaller
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Phil wrote:
hero of the day wrote:
You claim that DonamerDragon's SMB2 movie has flaws, yet his movie was better than yours. What does that make you? Seems like you missed all of his little improvements in your run didn't you.
Where, When?????? Is it an attempt to insult me?
Nope, not trying to insult you. You said you were working on an improved version of the SMB2 run, hence you make the claim that Donamer's movie had mistakes. Pretty simple logic.
Yes, by saying I am improving it implies there are errors. What are you trying to prove?
P.S. Btw, I don't see such claim in the SMB2 submission thread.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
You said the movie WAS improvable, and didn't say HOW it was improvable. And I am not going to search though old threads because you tend to edit your posts away.
And Donamer didn't do so. And X didn't do so when he did improved y's run. Is the the site worse? No because movies are, in the end, better.
The 1st goal of this site, afaik, is to host great movies. Not to have novel that take longer to read than watching the said game.
And no, I don't edit old posts. That's free and stupid accusations.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Whats your point? Why didn't you just post the improvements in the SMB2 thread so that we viewers could know why his run was so poorly made? Or maybe if you posted the improvements, he could have made a new run and we would have a better run on the site than we do now.
Who ever said anything about a novel?
Edit:
Since I made this post, phil edited his post to say how he never edits his posts. Oh my goodness!
Whats your point? Why didn't you just post the improvements in the SMB2 thread so that we viewers could know why his run was so poorly made?
I never said such claim. Are you sure you are talking about the warp version? I admit that I said such about the warpless run but the "yet his movie was better than yours" doesn't apply since I never did a warpless run before.
hero of the day wrote:
Or maybe if you posted the improvements, he could have made a new run and we would have a better run on the site than we do now.
If I would have posted those improvements, it would mean that the movie is finished which is not the case.
hero of the day wrote:
Who ever said anything about a novel?
Me because it will need a long text to describe everything.
Also, what you are trying to explain is that anybody that improve a run without telling "secrets" is wrong. There are outnumbered of people doing that(Most people here). And I am repeating, so far it did make the site far better. Not worse like you try to claim.
hero of the day wrote:
Since I made this post, phil edited his post to say how he never edits his posts. Oh my goodness!
I think it is okay to keep improvements a secret for a while if you plan to make an improved version of the run that would utilize those secrets, and thus reveal them when the time is right. Ex: Fabian's old SMW 96 run has known improvements, but Fabian does not need to reveal these improvements because they would spoil some strategies from the new 96 run he is working on right now. These improvements, not currently known to the general public, will be unveiled when the time is right to maximize viewer entertainment.
Disclamier: I have no idea what the situation with Phil and SMB2 is or whether or not he plans to improve it, I'm just talking in general terms.
Ok so, so far. Since I can't improve a game made by someone else, unless I wrote a novel trying to justify what are the improvements, then does it mean that the game is own by the author?
