Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Wow, the 32X version of Blackthorne is way faster than the SNES version.
I did the first level as a test run. I have never recorded any 32X stuff before, so I would appreciate if someone checked it for desynchs. I'm not sure if I continue doing this, but the game looks promising.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5198/btlv1.gmv
What a coincidence, I though about that game, too (but I think, it's because I saw it in your list).
It synched with my version (20061213) the first time, but it desynchs since then every time he wants to pick up the second of the items before the first door.
Also, I think the game runs too fast (despite auto-frameskip and auto-detect) since the sound is unnaturally high. But maybe my settings are wrong.
About the game choice:
Its graphics are way better than on the other systems. Playing the game was a lot of fun, but it could be that someone unfamiliar with the game has difficulties to follow the game (why nobody attacked you, shooting the prisoners :) …). So other opinions would be helpful.
Since it is IMO more puzzling (with a shotgun), it might run risk to become monotone after a while (except for the upgrading gun). Still, I think it might entertaining enough, but that is easy to say, since I am not the one who will have the work of tasing this game.
How long would the run approximately be?
This synchs well for me, both when I open the rom then run the movie, or after the movie is finished playing if I reload the movie. No problems thus far.
Having no familiarity with the game, it was not difficult to figure out that the guards were not attacking because they where in shadows... I would be curious to see a completed run, but I may bore quickly due to no previous attachment to the game. Looked good so far, and kill the crap out of those prisoners >:)
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Thanks guys.
emu wrote:
I think the game runs too fast (despite auto-frameskip and auto-detect) since the sound is unnaturally high.
When I watch it, it's about twice as fast as the SNES version. I have never played it with a real console, so I can't say what the normal speed should be.
stickyman05 wrote:
Looked good so far, and kill the crap out of those prisoners >:)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
I may have a go a this game (I'm assuming nobody is still working on it since 2007 :P)... first a playthrough on Gens to see if the speed is as varying as XYZ said in 2007
searched on TASvids, SDA, google, gameFAQs and youtube... couldn't find much about any TAS or speedrun or misc info, any info appreciated
edit: oh I found the ghost LUA script ofc! :) didn't try to run it tho :P also, it didn't mention for what platform the script is :D
edit2: oh I found maps :) awesome! (they're not the correct chronological names for Gens because the snow/ice world is missing, but it's still nice to have :))
http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/index.htm#BlackThorne1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.42.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.43.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.44.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4Sarlac
edit3: Started getting to know the game from a TAS POV (input moments/effects, RAM addresses, etc) and currently some test runs of the menus and first level (Figuring out why I'm losing some frames on Aqfaq :D)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Alright first WIP post...
tried some variations... unfortunately the coolest one was 13 frames slower :(
I timed the first black frame of the last transition in lvl 1 (so when going up the elevator)
Aqfaqs: 2257
fastest: 2227 (here!)
coolest: 2240 (accidentilly thrown away :P)
comments & synch-checks welcome!
ps. ROM = Blackthorne (32X) (U) [!].32x
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Oh my bad... I uploaded the same file twice because I copied the wrong file by accident :X (so I no longer have the cool one myself either)
anyway its approach was:
skip 1st enemy and climb the ridges (instead of the stairs)
wait at the 'warp' a bit to manip the 2nd enemy
use your 3rd hover-bomb to destroy 3rd gate and 2nd enemy simultaneously (and collect its drop for your 4th bomb)
so didn't have to use my gun for that approach :P couldn't manip the enemy towards the door fast enough though
edit:
Found another way cool trick (in 1.2).... that costs ~100 frames :( crap
edit2:
lol there was a typo in my spreadsheet.... it saves ~100 frames instead of cost :D
edit3:
Ohw, just found another way to save some time in some places... including the very first screen. That gives me 2 opportunities (ok lets try to see it from a positive side :)) 1st I can see how well this game hex-edits, I'm guess not very very poorly and it'll desynch the same screen as i try to edit it. 2nd I can have a new go at the no-need-to-use-my-gun-trick in 1.1 (since I'll arrive at different times)...
Received the awesome suggestion to make a LUA script that'll perform the various moves for me, hadn't thought of that so I'll see if I can make that work as well.
all in all lots of work to be done! :P Back to the drawing boards :)
edit4:
oh dear... movements in the game are quite irregular, up to the point that delaying an action can result in different (possibly faster) actions being available :( E.g. when kyle starts running at frame N kyle will be able to start a jump at tiles T+1 and T+3... but if he starts running at frame N+1 he can jump from tiles T+2 and T+4
not sure yet how exactly this works but it seems optimizing will be hell :/ first thing is to figure out how far consequences can/will reach
edit5:
just found 3 different approaches that have 3 different frames (1227, 1225, 1224) for picking up an item, yet they all lead to the same states (exactly same RAM) at frame 1609.... definitely convinced there's a frame-rule involved, but dunno what it stems from :P
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
I cannot really figure out a failsafe method of finding the best strategy... so far I'm simply using lots of alternatives to find a fast one
1.1 in 2197 (30 frame improvement)DaTeL237 wrote:
edit:
final screen of 1.2 goes black at 6976
edit2:
found some nice tricks in 1.3, trying to figure out the fastest way of maneuvering the remote-control bomb to a target, and whether it pays to run part of the way rather than stay back as far as possible
oh and a perfect example why this game is a **** to optimize... When riding the elevator to the bottom level of 1.3 (and when you go left to collect RC bombs), there's several possibilities of where/when to perform jumps (which is faster).... I found 3 options that all lead to an equal time used to cross those screens, differences start playing up 5 screens later however... in this particular case with a 30-frame difference between the worst and best of those 3. So, who is to say whether waiting 1 frame might gain me another 30...
edit3:
Hmm, found some new insights... and a new strategy for 1.3 :P gotta redo a fair bit, and still need to work out how to use the wasp fastest :X (although it got simpler than before)
Whatever happened here? I'd love to see some more WIPs.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
