Here's another Sonic run, and an S3&K run at that. This time it's more of a cleanup run for the glitches I wasn't aware of than an actual redo, but at least the improvements were more than I expected (over a minute of in-game time).
LevelTimeUnits Improved
Hydrocity 20:5212
Icecap 11:0115
Lava Reef 11:048
Lava Reef 20:2130
Total23:0265 (1 minute and 5 seconds)
Hydrocity 2: The new glitch was hard to execute even when I knew about it (and it always fails if the subpixel position is in the wrong range). It had a couple of seemingly negative side effects: It made several downward slopes intangible, and it put some timed objects in the most inconvenient places... but the former made a new route possible and the latter forced me to find it. 12 seconds were saved in this act, unfortunately enough to cross a bonus boundary and lose most of those seconds in real-time.
Icecap 1: This is the only improvement that doesn't result from a new glitch. Instead I save time by taking a more direct route, which is much more difficult than the old route because Sonic is moving through the level (and can collide with its obstacles), not teleporting past it. I had given it up as impossible before, but found just the right angle and speed to pull it off. The jumping at the end was just to be annoying (and to manipulate Tails to not vanish before the boss fight).
Lave Reef 1: Like the Hydrocity 2 glitch, the new glitch here was picky about working and hard to do optimally with both Sonic and Tails. Also like in Hydrocity 2, the remainder of the act after the glitch had to be redone, but there was less that could be done differently here.
Lave Reef 2: At first I was stuck here for a long time because the change to the previous act put the timed objects in the wrong places for me to match the previous act 2 time without waiting enough to nullify the time gained. Then I saw the 100% Knuckles TAS use Hyper Knuckles' invincibility to get pushed into the ground by the Lava Reef 1 boss, and I continued to be stuck here for a long time trying to reproduce that without Super/Hyper form. After not thinking about it for a while, I suddenly had an idea on how to do it, and it worked, so (hours of hex editing later) I finally had an updated run that still beats the game.
This is actually the first time I have ever submitted an improvement to one of my own published runs. I'm honestly not sure if I like it more than the previous one. My favorite improved part is Hydrocity 2, and my favorite part of the run remains Carnival Night 1 and 2. Because it's not a complete redo, the rerecord count continues from where it was in the last version, although I believe many rerecords weren't counted due to reverting to previous movie files several times and making a lot of changes by in-level hex editing.
Since most of this run is the same as the previous one, please refer to that run's comments for further information.
Thanks to Eredani, Mike89, and Upthorn for info about the new Hydrocity 2, Lava Reef 1, and Lava Reef 2 glitches, respectively.
  • No death
  • Aims for fastest (primarily in-level) time
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors in the game (a lot)
  • Manipulates luck (a little)
  • One player controls two characters
  • Emulator used: Gens Movie Test 9j (works with 9f, 9z, etc.)


Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I don't know if I should cancel this or not... I think it will be more than a week before finishing a new version is possible.
Upthorn wrote:
I managed to make it work, but I haven't been able to duplicate it. When it did work, Sonic appeared in Knuckles' boss area at approximately 0:50. The bad news is that Knuckles' Act 2 route is about 3 seconds longer, and Sonic's act 2 has a higher water level than Knuckles which Sonic would be unable to survive without making use of a checkpoint bonus stage to reset the drown timer. The good news is that it's possible to get to that checkpoint the end of level boss with an ingame time of 0:08, which would make a total savings of 0:35 seconds real time, or 1:34 game time.
Could you rephrase that? I'm not sure what I should be inferring from the strikeouts or which parts were added before or after those parts were struck out. Are you suggesting glitching to Knuckles' Act 1 boss near the very start of Act 1, going through Knuckles' Act 2, and getting back to Sonic's Act 2 boss near the end?
Xkeeper wrote:
I swear at a part in Ice Cap, the rapidly-flying-past-the-screen level was rather broken and glitchy.
Yes, that's some garbage level data in Act 2 I use to start zipping. Before that point, Sonic is onscreen fairly often, and after it Sonic is waiting past the Act 2 boss. Letting the camera go too far into (under) that glitchy area would freeze the game.
upthorn
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Active player (391)
Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 1802
nitsuja wrote:
I don't know if I should cancel this or not... I think it will be more than a week before finishing a new version is possible.
Upthorn wrote:
some confusing text.
Could you rephrase that? I'm not sure what I should be inferring from the strikeouts or which parts were added before or after those parts were struck out. Are you suggesting glitching to Knuckles' Act 1 boss near the very start of Act 1, going through Knuckles' Act 2, and glitching to Sonic's Act 2 boss near the end?
Sorry about that. Yes. I was proposing that you glitch to Knuckles' Act 1 boss near the start of act 1. It requires leading a flybot from the alarm to the first elevator tube, and taking damage knockback from the edge of the tube into the middle of the tube (takes about 15 seconds longer than entering the elevater normally). When done correctly, control is retained into the elevator, and sonic can escape the elevator with a series of precisely timed spindashes. (Unfortunately, I wasn't able to determine exactly what the necessary timing was for this.) By breaking out of the elevator near the bottom of its path, it is possible for Sonic to zip left past the edge of the level, which will bring him to Knuckles' Act 1 boss. At Knuckles' boss, Sonic only needs to defeat one of the robots to begin Act 2. Defeating the second robot after the Act 1 score tally will bring up an Act 2 score tally, and freeze the timer. At this point you would have slightly under 30 seconds to get to a checkpoint or a water shield before drowning. I don't think you should cancel this submission, because it is unknown if the watershield is reachable before drowning. The checkpoint is definitely reachable before drowning (about 5 seconds of leeway), but using that strategy would require a change of goals. If the water shield can be reached without drowning, an in-game time below 30 seconds is possible on Launch Base 2.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15569
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [826] Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles by nitsuja in 34:22.02
Active player (348)
Joined: 3/21/2006
Posts: 940
Location: Toronto, Canada
nitsuja wins the Internet. Yes vote and a star.
My current project: Something mysterious (oooooh!) My username is all lower-case letters. Please get it right :(
Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 27
Nice work on Hydrocity .... and roflmao on Lava Reef! Yes vote.
Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 61
I was holding off on voting on this, since I wasn't sure whether you were going to cancel it and test the potential improvements. Nonetheless, this remains my favorite run on the site, and the new glitched routes are awesome! Yes+star. Edit: By the way, does this mean you're officially TASing again?
Joined: 7/31/2005
Posts: 128
Location: Virginia
Very entertaining; these videos are always great for helping me unwind. "Why are you running on air, Sonic?! Isn't the ground good enough for you?"
Working on a mod of an old favorite in my spare time. PM for updates!
Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
who's nistuja? :/
m00
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
Apparently the real mastermind behind the S3&K tas.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 2
I'm new here and i also don't know much about Glitches and TAS'ing, but what me always bother at Sonic 3 Speedruns... isn't it a little faster in IceCap 1 when you were snowboarding to jump over the ramps? Sry for my bad english if it's bad...
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
IIRC, you can't control Sonic while he is busy snowboarding. You can't do anything at all until he falls down.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 2/1/2007
Posts: 245
Location: Israel
Are you sure? I can clearly recall how every time I'd play that part I'd accidentally always jump over all the rings you get there.
Joined: 4/11/2007
Posts: 2
@moozooh - Wrong, you can jump with the Snowboard. EDIT: Ok, i take back my Question. I tried it for myself and its way longer that way. (I wonder why)
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I did jump with the snowboard in this movie (and the last one), in fact I jumped over one of the ramps. Jumping once is always slower than not jumping at all (because it caps your speed very low, and I tested every possible frame to jump at), but a specific combination of two frame-precise jumps was a few frames faster than not jumping at all, because it made Sonic hit the wall lower and gain control sooner and also skipped a ramp. It is possible to land on the ground with the snowboard before hitting the wall, completely skipping the stuck-under-the-snow cutscene, but it requires slowing down so much that it's definitely not worth it.
Player (31)
Joined: 9/23/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Moreno Valley, California
Dang, Hydrocity and the Lava Reef wanted in on the broken ackshun!
"The way to move out of judgment is to move into gratitude." — Neale Donald Walsch DannyLilithborne on IRC
CrazyTerabyte
He/Him
Joined: 5/7/2005
Posts: 74
After all that skipping, I've heard that S3&K bosses are now looking for a job at some other game. :)
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Well, it looks like Sonic 3 and Knuckles is going to have to be broken a little bit more. Courtesy of SkyLights of TSC comes this. Draw your own conclusions as to why this happens, but this could probably take Hidden Palace down to... 22?
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
what file format is this? .giz ?
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Indeed, it's GIZ. I think you need GensPlus to open it.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Reviewer, Active player (287)
Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717
Comparison video Part 1 Part 2 I may do the rest of the obsoletions to present day later, but the game is hex edit friendly, which means I have to go through the entire run for just a few changes in a few levels.