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Posted: 6/26/2006 12:22 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I think it looks more skillful to beat Tubular without a P-balloon than with, even with the glitch.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 6/26/2006 1:06 AM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Oh no! Speed vs entertainment! So, how was the harry potter movie? And about left+right: don't be torn, be lazy. I say leave it out. Edit: Since I started posting here I have gotten 6 out of 8 pagebreaks.
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Posted: 6/26/2006 2:35 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Don't be torn; do it right and put it in!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/26/2006 2:44 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Fabian, if you really want to try it out, I'll be down for attempting the hex-edit of the next...(counts)...27 levels?? Yikes. And I'm leaving for two weeks, so it will probably jump to like....28 by the time I'm back! If Tubular was in the 11-exit, I'd say go for it. But it's not, and your Tubular looks Way Cool anyway (Awesome!).
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 6/26/2006 5:03 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Thanks for the reminder jimsfriend, I liked it. I'll make a post about it soon. JXQ, I greatly appreciate your willingness to help me, as always. I'm not making a decision about this for another few weeks, so there's no rush (meaning only 27 levels of hexediting, possibly :) ). Congrats on the upcoming wedding and enjoy your honeymoon!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 6/28/2006 10:27 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Fabian wrote:
I can't think of a level with a) A P-switch/key+Shell/something b) Yoshi and c) spikes. If I think of one I'll test it. Or you could tell me if you think of one.
VD3 doesn't have spikes, but it has those black chomper things. And a yoshi and two items.
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Posted: 7/7/2006 8:43 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I'm back home and will start working a bit on this again. I've been thinking about the left+right thing, and I've decided that I should remake the level. I was under the impression that left+right wasn't possible on console, which is why I'd normally have no problem ignoring a timesaver using it. However, apparently it's very possible, which changes everything in my mind. There's definitely no good reason to ignore it, I think. That being said, I'm probably still not going to go back and redo it. If it was something I could fix myself I probably would, but it just seems like too much work for someone else to fix (hex) for me. Anyway, I'm halfway through the Forest Ghost House. Hopefully progress will be relatively fast in the forest.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/7/2006 9:30 PM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Im really convinced that a 2 player 100% run would be faster by all means(if that is what is going on). While Mario takes 1 path, which would be levels 1, 2, 3, and 4, while Luigi takes another path, which would be star road and levels 5, 6, 7, and 8. More ground could be covered. There is a 4 second screen delay from switching from Mario to Luigi but that would make up for backtracking time, AND Luigi should finish Star Road ASAP. I was told this could not be faster but I'm still convinced that it is.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 7/7/2006 9:33 PM
(Edited: 7/7/2006 9:34 PM)
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Bablo
Player (224)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 399
Fabian wrote:
That being said, I'm probably still not going to go back and redo it. If it was something I could fix myself I probably would, but it just seems like too much work for someone else to fix (hex) for me.
Copypasting would not require a whole lot of work.
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Posted: 7/7/2006 9:34 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
If the delay is exactly 4 seconds, that adds up to quite a bit over ~95 such delays. I definitely don't see 6 minutes and 20 seconds being saved in not having to backtrack. That's not what's going on here though. What is going on is that a console player found a timesaver involving pressing left and right at the same time, in a level I've already completed.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/7/2006 10:26 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Bablo was kind enough to offer to help with the hexediting, so I just redid Tubular anyway. 146 frames faster than the first version, so that was nice. Thanks Bablo!
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/7/2006 10:30 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Well that's cool, but two things. One, since JXQ thinks the old tubular was cool maybe you could put a demo of it. Second, I still haven't managed to make my controller do left+right. And I have 3 different controllers that I tried. Maybe I'm just not leet.
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Posted: 7/7/2006 10:37 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I agree that the old Tubular looked much cooler. The thing was, because of me entering the level on a different frame than VIPer7, the football guys didn't throw their footballs on the perfect frames, you know where VIPer7 bounces off of a football. So what I had to do was to duckjump underneath the chucks, and then turn around, release P-switch, turn back, jump off of P-switch up to a ?-box near the goal post. Looked pretty neat, but was 6 frames slower overall compared to VIPer7, so I don't really mind anyway. Although I described everything you need to know about that level, I might include it with some other cool stuff that didn't make it in the submission text.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/7/2006 10:41 PM
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skamastaG
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
That is pretty weird Jimsfriend. Thegreginator could't get left+right to work either. I am not too sure why it works for me and not others. Have you tried up+down because that works too. I just press down the center and that works fine. How do you allow left+right on snes-9x? I thought there was a menu where you turned left+right on, but I couldn't find.
Posted: 7/7/2006 10:43 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
When you record a movie you can choose to check or uncheck "Allow left+right". If you have an older version of snes9x you might not have it. If so, you can find the newest version in the Snes9x subforum here.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/8/2006 6:47 PM
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thegreginator
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Fabian, you made the right decision about redoing Tubular. I think your controller is unique skamastaG, because it will not work on mine or jimsfriends. Maybe all those times of thowing the controller down in frustration popped something loose inside ;). Is it possible to "freeze" the fast p-ballooning oscilation at 52 in a way similar to the hopping glitch and fast flying? I know freezing the oscilation requires not pressing right, but maybe this could be avoided if you used up+down instead of left+right. If this is possible, it might make riding the lakitu cloud for FoI4 faster (hopefully you havent done this level yet Fabian). The only reson it wouldnt be faster (if the oscilation could be frozen at 52, that is) is if it takes too much time to get into the lakitu cloud (I know he starts out beind you) or if the cloud disappeared before the end of the level. Freezing the oscilation at 52 would be really cool and I think warrants more testing, even if not used on FoI4. If possible, it would make Tubular even faster than "regular" fast p-ballooning.
Posted: 7/8/2006 6:54 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
I tried out various things when redoing Tubular, and couldn't find a way to manipulate the speed. I didn't test up+down though, so I'll check it out to make sure.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/10/2006 4:02 AM
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thegreginator
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Sorry this is kind of random but I have been watching some SMW videos and I have 2 questions: 1) Is the vertical speed of a spin jump flight different from the vertical speed of a regular flight? In VIPer7's 96 run, he starts out both DGH (TSA exit) and Funky with a spin jump flight instead of a regular flight and I cant figure out why. Wouldnt it be faster to start these levels with a regular flight so you can get the benefits of fast flying a bit sooner (for Funky you can cape the pirhana plant)? I can understand if VIPer7 didnt think of caping the pirhana plant for Funky, but DGH has always annoyed me. 2) In JXQ's 11 run, for the first room in Iggy's Castle, when you hop with Mario he still has the "running" animation of his arms out and his legs back that would signify that forward is being pressed (the same as just running on the ground). It does not have the animation usually seen when doing the hop glitch of Mario's fist in the air and arms down at his sides. Does this mean JXQ is not doing the hop glitch here? Is there a reason for this? It happens again after the p-switch jump, so grabbing the p-switch cant be the reason... Fabian, any luck on freezing the fast p-balloon oscilation at 52?
Posted: 7/10/2006 4:10 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
1) I'm pretty sure the flights ascend at the same speed, although I don't remember VIPer's run enough to answer the other questions. 2) I use the 8/5 trick there, so I'm sometimes pressing forward and sometimes not. I do this because I have to drop the P-switch at a speed slower than I am traveling in order to land on it. Mario also can't make that last jump without grabbing the fence, and it's one frame faster to 8/5 that middle part than it is to hop-glitch and run back to speed.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 7/10/2006 4:19 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
1) There's no (good, at least) reason for the spin flight in Funky. It's not even necessary to cape the piranha, you can begin flying regularly right away anyway. About the TSA exit, I think the reason might be that the platform (ceiling) is too far up, so if you flew up there with regular flight, there's not enough room to catch air again. This could of course be fixed by using the hopping glitch, which was not known at the time. Otherwise I have no explanation for it. No luck on the balloon thing.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/11/2006 2:09 PM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Balloon update: Getting hexediting to work was too hard (thanks JXQ for trying), so it's been decided to ignore the new tubular and keep going in the forest of illusion. The good news is that Tubular looks cooler (I think) now, the bad news is I miss out on a pretty significant timesaver. Also, even using the current "route", that level is improvable a decent amount, abusing walking oscillation speed, something I was unaware of/couldn't do/didn't do until I got memory watching to work, right around Donut Secret 1b. But meh who cares right? Forest of Illusion update: I'm having trouble getting past the spike monster thing in FoI2, you know. Hopefully I'll figure it out.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 7/11/2006 10:15 PM
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jimsfriend
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Did you try swimming through the corner? And don't forget to corner boost where it applies.
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Posted: 7/12/2006 4:02 PM
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thegreginator
Former player
Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
Sweet jimsfriend another page break. ;) Fun fact about my posting: I have used parentheses in 13/13 of my posts (including this one). ;) On topic: does your speed earlier in the level determine the stars you get for cutting the gate tape or is it just your speed in the stretch just before the gate? Becasue I have gotten 14 stars in YI3 without doing the hopping glitch and jimsfriend said he briefly did the hopping glitch to make 14 stars possible. If your speed just before the gate is all that affects it, maybe there are certain things you can do to get to the gate a bit sooner, such as jumping earlier or later or making mario hit the gate in different places (somethimes hit the tape with the top of marios head, sometimes hit it with the bottom of his feet, etc.) I dont know how to optimize this, but I'm pretty sure you can get to the gate a bit sooner depending on when and where you jump for the tape. Someone might want to see if my theory is true, as it might save a frame or two for each level.
Posted: 7/12/2006 10:59 PM
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skamastaG
Former player
Joined: 6/25/2006
Posts: 138
Location: Fort Collins, CO
I do not understand what you are getting at. How does getting a certain amount of stars at a gate have anything to do with the amount of frames it takes to beat a level. If anything this would complicate things by affecting lag. On another note, if normal flight and spin flight have the same ascending speed then I think I might do normal flight in the pipe of DS1 and cape the koopa instead of spin flight. It looks closer to 275 when I do that and I sometimes mess up doing a spinfly. I am curious as to how good of a 275 you(JXQ or Fabian) got when leaving the pipe in DS1. By that I mean was it a solid 275 maybe even close to 276 or was it just a 275 by a couple of frames. I want to know because I have tried so much and can't get 275 so I think it is impossible on console. I'm thinking it would have to be absoulutely perfect and an emulator would be needed to know exactly how much you press left to not hit the koopa but also to not slow down. If you were closer to 276 I might have to keep trying to see if I can get 275.
Posted: 7/15/2006 4:32 AM
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thegreginator
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Joined: 6/4/2006
Posts: 267
Location: CO
skamastaG, I watched JXQ's video on snes9x and used the frame step function to try and answer your question. When the timer turned to 275, I counted the number of times I pressed the frame step button until JXQ entered the pipe. To know when exactly the pipe was entered, I listened for the first loud "beep" noise (the pipe sound in slow motion) that would signal the pipe being entered. I counted 39 frames from when the timer turned to 275 to when the pipe was entered. There are 41 frames in 1 "mario", so this means the pipe was entered just 2 frames away from a 274. This also means that a 275 would be almost impossible to get on console, so I wouldnt really work on it.
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