Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Cpadolf wrote:
...however I had some problems getting it to work with an even higher speed than I reached here, as the delay to reach that speed meant that the Ki-huter at the end was too far away to both kill it and get a good damageboost.
Can you shoot a missile or the beam right after the jump to hit the Ki-hunter for it to stop for some frames to give Samus time to reach him, or is the ki-hunter too far to reach even shooting him (maybe twice)?!
It seems only the beam makes the enemies to stop for some frames, but it seems possible too to shoot the Ki-hunter twice.
Joined: 5/12/2009
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Triple post: Had an idea that seems feasible, though i don't know if it would be faster. After collecting Ridley's Energy Tank, go to the very left till Samus touch the wall, turn around and run, shoot the door and do a cwj from it from the highest possible spot, in the next room shoot diagonally up to open the door and then mockball to the other room and keep jumping with the spring ball till the door. The idea here is to avoid the slowdown charging the Shinespark and the crash animation. Usually Samus have not enough height to reach the door with one jump, but maybe using the cwj from the door gives her enough height to reach the door and mockball.
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I tested it for a while but I didn't ever get that close to getting high enough. I actually got closer by doing a regular jump at the highest speed I could from the bottom of the room, but was still about 1 block too low.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Joined: 5/12/2009
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Location: Brazil
Thanks for testing it! Btw, i had an idea where i would use the X-ray glitch to charge the echoes in zero distance, but when i tested it (first time i tried that trick) i couldn't keep the echoes, only charge the shinespark. Is there a way to keep the echoes using this trick instead of charging the shinespark?
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<^>v AB X LR s
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The idea would be to use that spike to charge the echoes and then use a mockball to break the two blocks. But it seems that it's not possible...
Player (89)
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Yea I too have tried to get the echoes from a zero distance charge, but I have never been successful. Would be awesome looking if it worked.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Joined: 11/26/2010
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Have you ever tried doing a forward boost speed keep thing to a Blueball to break the blocks after the zero distance charge?
My name is Forensics.
Joined: 5/12/2009
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Location: Brazil
I managed to make Samus to stay with echoes after a damage boost, but she has no speed for mockball. Unfortunatelly. I tried damage boosting with Speed but Samus doesn't keep the Echoes.
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Btw, would this be faster?
BigBoct
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Holy crap, that looked awesome! Man, the new 100% is gonna be a thing of beauty if you guys ever actually do it.
Previous Name: boct1584
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Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Btw, would this be faster?
Pretty sweet looking. For some reason I thought a diagonal spark would be blocked here by the platform. Seeing that it is possible, it could indeed be faster. But with the time spent charging the spark and the cool-down, I would imagine it would be very close time wise. I hope it is faster, because it certainly looks cooler than what the current method does. Nice find man.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
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Reeve your amazing still finding things and coming up with good ideas!!! I don't know if that's faster, but man its fucking cool!!!
My name is Forensics.
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Agreed. That trick would be sweet to include in some form.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 5/12/2009
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A quick test i did says that it could be some minor frames faster, but it would have to be done slightly different. I didn't take into account the Pirate position and also it could be hard to get into position without loosing time to do the super short charge from left to the right. So instead you could land in the right side and charge the shinespark going to the left, then do a diagonal shot to both clear the path and open the door, jump and get the damage from the pirate. I tried to make an smv but i can't get the damage in the right position to fly through the door. I have a guess of something that would work, if i can do it i'll post it here. Edit: Damn, i think i did something wrong when testing. In the first smv it seems it would be around 10+ frames faster, but in the new smv it is around half second slower. So it's probably the slower unfortunatelly. Anyway i'm attaching the smv, if it could be at least equally fast it would be the way to go for sure. smv
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This is (obviously) just my opinion, but I'd rather see as many new tricks as possible in a new 100%, even if it means sacrificing some time.
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BigBoct
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*splat sound effect*
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Cpadolf, can't you use this trick in this moment? I mean, not like the old way, but the same way as in the first url, so you would still be able to use the backdown trick to avoid landing in the platform while falling.
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You have to fully land properly in order for the backdown trick to work. This is because it only works while you are in a "falling" state, which can be achieved by running of the edge of a platform, unmoprhing midair etc. From a normal jump though, it will not work, and turning around without landing won't change that.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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Thanks for the clarification, cp, but i know how the back down trick works, i just thought that when you enter the big vertical room, before old MB's one, Samus land in the top platform, and you use that turn around trick to make her fall, but it doesn't seem the case and you just touch it or something like that, right? Anyway, i've been talking with hero of the day about this and decided to post it here as well. Dessyreqt, a realtime speedrunner came up with a route that he said to be faster both in-game time and realtime. Actually he said he uses a program to bruteforce the game searching for possible routes and the results were over 1000 different possibilities with the route i'm describing below as the fastest one, as i said, both in-game time and realtime. The route changes after Wrecked Ship. You would go for Crateria Shaft, get the Missile pack in the left, below the save room, then go down to the big fall and get the Super Missile above old MB's room. Fall again through the shaft and get the Missile pack in old MB's room. Then proceed to clean the right side of Blue Brinstar, and then goes straight to Green Brinstar, getting the Power Bomb pack in the way. Now get the Missile pack in green brinstar, inside of the fake bug's pipe and then proceed to Maridia (of course, getting the X-ray in the way in TAS conditions). After the Norfair clean up you should proceed to Pink Brinstar to clean up and then for the elevator. Then go for the Power Bomb pack in the landing site and then for the gauntlet area. And finally to Torian. It doesn't seem to me this route would be faster, mainly because you would have less equipment to speed up Blue Brinstar and when you're going for Pink Brinstar clean up, you couldn't use the new equipments to speed up that area because the possible tricks are too hard to pull off in realtime. Also, going for blue brinstar and from there to Maridia would let you with 1 less Super Missile pack (iirc). Well, for TAS conditions i thought that this route could be maybe something to look into, first because you can use better alternatives to speedup the blue brinstar area that realtime runners couldn't. Also you could take full advantage of the new equipments for cleaning the Pink Brinstar area and also, something i've just realized and what actually made me post this is that you could avoid a back track in the original route posted by dessyreqts, that again, a realtime runner couldn't. The idea would be to go for the gauntlet after Wrecked Ship as usual, then, after that you would proceed to Crateria shaft, avoiding two back tracks, one up in the green pirates zigue zague room when you were supposed to climb it going to the landing site area for the power bomb pack, and another one by not having to go from the entrance of the crateria shaft to the landing site, again for the Power Bomb pack. I'd like to know your thoughts about this. Edit: Btw, something i just realized to be another huge advantage over the realtime route, is the fact that you can use the upper exit after collecting the Pink Brinstar Power Bomb pack, which not only is faster but avoid the path that would leads Samus to a big back track. That alone would be a huge time saver over the realtime run suggested by Dessyreqt.
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Well I have an interesting idea for a possible Route now that you mention it. Instead of going to clean up area from the Wrecked Ship you could go back down the Red Brinstar elevator and straight to Maridia collect everything in Lower Norfair then exit through Maridia which you could get the main street Missile Pack on exit. Then back up the Red Brinstar elevator and Clean Up above the ship down to Green Brinstar and Pink Brinstar then exit though Blue Brinstar to Torrian. Just a thought. Not even sure it would save time because you don't really need power ups it the first clean up but could be interesting.
My name is Forensics.
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Iirc i posted the same route some time ago, when the searching for tricks started, then i realized that this route has one extra elevator transition. I did a test comparing the time to cross the rooms going through the route, using old and new TASes and the route was slower by 20 or 30 seconds. I don't remember if i considered getting the Maridia Mainstreet missile later, but even if not, it would save time enough to make the route worth it. Also, another big problem is that after Wrecked Ship you don't have health enough for a shinespark going for the X-Ray scope and another one back to Brinstar Shaft, so you would have to stop to refill somewhere and it would cost more time. Another issue is that you would skip two Super Missile Packs that you usually get in the Brinstar Clean up. Although a Later Brinstar and gauntlet area would be faster by having Springball and Spacejump for the clean up, it would probably not save enough time to make the route worth it.
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http://pastebin.com/D9rUJaws That's a list of the routes I ended up permuting. "fastest without springball" is the racing route I use nowadays because springball glitch is not a good race strat. Obviously inapplicable in a TAS setting. "my route" is the old racing route that I used to use and that some of the racers on SRL still use. It's basically the "m2k2 route" but without springball glitch. The score is the value in frames of the tested parts. The route tree is listed at the bottom. Here's the list for ingame time for those wondering: http://pastebin.com/9P1Lg4Ft Anyway, it does seem that going down blue and up green is faster than the reverse. I've still yet to be able to quantify why exactly that is, but I've observed distinct improvements in my times, both realtime and ingame time, by switching the order of those two around. I agree that the result is counterintuitive, but my testing indicates that having springball, screw attack, and space jump for blue speeds it up less than it does speed up pink and the etecoon area.