Great!!!
Now it's 4 frames faster than Saturn's GravityKagoTech.
Btw, I had this idea some time ago and made a smv, though it was, iirc, 10 frames slower than Cp's strat. Now, i know that the smv is improvable, but can you guys improve it enough to beat the current 100% run strategy?
Edit: Ok, I tested it again and it's 9 frames slower. Good luck!
It does indeed look likes it's 2+ frames faster.
Smv
Btw, does Snes9xWatch work for anyone in v17, or do you all use the built in one? If anyone has it working, could you post the target line for it in s9xwconf0?
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
Nice strategy Reeve and nice improvement with that .smv Cpadolf!!!
I had an idea and was wondering if it would be faster? You've probably tested this before, but in that room after the E-Tank shoot the blocks morph and unmorph and back down all the way through.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
hey everyone, check out this never before seen technique. Its much like the one seen in the RBO run which uses the door to do a CWJ off of. The difference here is that it can be done on a stationary object, instead of on a door which disappears from samus' path. There should be several areas where this can be applied. The green bubble room can benefit from it, if it can be executed from the top tier of blocks. Check it out here (play it in slow mo and watch the input, or you may miss it).
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1582916771/Forward_CWJ.smv
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Thinking there might be a limit on speed. Otherwise it requires pretty precise x/y positioning. It would be nice to see it done without having to unspin too.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
here is another fascinating thing:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1070703533/super_high_speed_CWJ.smv
It seems that CWJ's can be achieved at max running speed, if you precipitate the jump by putting samus into her "about to walljump" stance early. In this case, I used the bottom ledge to activate her "stance" by using left/right at once, which then allowed for a CWJ off the door.
That's even better. With this CWJ it's possible to reach the Eyed door without the need to morph. Don't know if it would be faster though...
smvThis looks better.
But probably just the same speed as the usual strategy.
I don't know, Hero. In one test i did, don't know if it is the one posted, I managed to hit The eyed door 1 frame earlier than Saturn in his In-game time any%, though i think it was the first frame to hit the eyed door, so getting there with a spinjump will probably be the same as you have to wait for the eye to open anyway.
Btw, Cpadolf, thanks for testing that grapple damage strat. It was really cool.
Edit: Crazy smv, hero. You really think out of the box.
The extra damage may not be a problem if you manipulate the Big Hoppers to give you health, as you probably won't have problems with ammo refill using Wave/Charge/Spazer.
If health is not a problem, you could take a little more damage and get it from the hopper if it's faster.
Regarding that Eyed Door to Kraid's lair, I got to the plaform with speed to shoot the super straight into the eye of the door, but it doesn't make any difference, cause as i said, you have to wait for the eye to open.
smv
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
Nice findings hero!!! Its amazing how things are still being discovered.
Anyway Reeve I think hero did that just for a quick demonstration, just to show how the technique works. The Kraid area is just an easy way to demonstrate it because you get full run speed and its very straight forward. I'm sure that technique could be very useful in other areas. Again great find Hero!!!
hum... i didn't quite understand... Would it be for another CWJ?
Edit: Can you guys save at least 2 or 3 frames here?
This smv is 2 frames slower than Cp's run, though it looks more entertaining due to the Door CWJ. If at leastt 2 frames can be saved so it will be equally fastt and can be used.
It would be significantly faster to just run through the door. The reason I jumped through it in my run was to save realtime (lessening door scrolling), I think I lost 20 frames or something ingame from that.
EDIT: Extremely cool findings btw Hero!
It would be significantly faster to just run through the door. The reason I jumped through it in my run was to save realtime (lessening door scrolling), I think I lost 20 frames or something ingame from that.
I see. I never liked that in-game time sacrifices to make the door transition align and stuffs like that. It's pretty strange, for example, when going for Speed booster in an any% run, it always looked sloppy to me to see samus not ledge grab in that bubble room with the bugs pipe, going to the big corridor before Speedbooster.
True. I think it's the correct choice for the glitched any% run, since that aims for the absolute lowest possible time. But I'd say all the other runs are better of not optimizing door lag.
Regarding the Full Speed CWJ that hero posted, can it be used in that Energy Tank room in Pink Brinstar, below the Charge Beam, when coming back? There's a two blocks ledge right before the door that could be used to prolong the cwj animation. If possible, it could be possible to morph right after the CWJ and use that trick that makes Samus keep her vertical speed while morphing in the ledge of the ceiling. So you could go higher and save some time.
Edit: Also, after the Brinstar Clean up, in the room before the noob bridge, right after openning the blue gate, it should be possible to not use armpump for samus to get the highest speed and use the same trick to cwj from the door straight to the noob bridge without the need of morphing in mid air. There's a small ledge right before the door.
Edit 2: Btw, Cp, regarding that GravityBots Early Shot, would it be faster if you shoot just the first robot, use the speedkeeping trick to reach the Statue but still landing the Power Bomb to clean the false Chozo, then manipulate the second robot to be in a position to fall quickly? You could try to shoot that robot right before morphing over the SpeedBooster blocks going to the robots area.
The problem with morphing in mid air to clear the ledge after the E-tank is that you'll continually rise through the air until your momentum drops to 0, which means you lose a lot of time floating in the air.
For the noob bridge, it is possible to get a high enough speed to skip the mid air morph, but it's actually faster to just go full speed with armpumps and do the mid air morph to reach the platform.
For the Gravity Statue room, it could be possible, but I think the second robot will be in too bad of a position to go down quickly if you do this.
The problem with morphing in mid air to clear the ledge after the E-tank is that you'll continually rise through the air until your momentum drops to 0, which means you lose a lot of time floating in the air.
I see. I supose, if the cwj is possible, that it's not possible to clear the ledge making Samus hitbox smaller, holding down, like i did in the first smv hero posted, in the eyed door area.
Cpadolf wrote:
For the noob bridge, it is possible to get a high enough speed to skip the mid air morph, but it's actually faster to just go full speed with armpumps and do the mid air morph to reach the platform.
That's cool! The "no armpump" was more to make it possible without the morphball, but if it is better with it, then it's cool!
Cpadolf wrote:
For the Gravity Statue room, it could be possible, but I think the second robot will be in too bad of a position to go down quickly if you do this.
I understand. So the time gainned by keeping the speed in the Statue area could not pay for the time lost making the robot to go down, right? You can consider too to not loose time landing the pb in the upper area, and land while shooting the robot.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Regarding the Full Speed CWJ that hero posted, can it be used in that Energy Tank room in Pink Brinstar, below the Charge Beam, when coming back? There's a two blocks ledge right before the door that could be used to prolong the cwj animation. If possible, it could be possible to morph right after the CWJ and use that trick that makes Samus keep her vertical speed while morphing in the ledge of the ceiling. So you could go higher and save some time.
Edit: Also, after the Brinstar Clean up, in the room before the noob bridge, right after openning the blue gate, it should be possible to not use armpump for samus to get the highest speed and use the same trick to cwj from the door straight to the noob bridge without the need of morphing in mid air. There's a small ledge right before the door.
(pink brinstar - etank room) It's actally possible to do the morphball upwards trick without having to do a CWJ here. The benefit of a CWJ off the door here is only if you can clear the top ledge after going through the door without morphing into a ball. Like CP said, there is too much hang time if you morphball when going up. It might be possible to CWJ through, and then simply point downward, and give you enough room to clear the top ledge. I've gotten the high speed CWJ to work no problem, but getting past the top ledge is proving difficult.
(noob brindge) I am still testing this, but finding a spot where you can both launch a super missile and stay on the ground to enable a spin jump is very difficult.
Another Half second time saver. Actually in my test it was 27 frames faster but if optimized it can be at least half second probably. I actually pointed this before, but i don't know if i was clear enough about what i was talking and i don't know if it was tested or not. So i tried it myself. The bad news is you need to waste one super for that, but i don't think this would be a big deal.
smv
Edit: Managed to save 2 more frames, now it's 29 frames faster.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Another Half second time saver. Actually in my test it was 27 frames faster but if optimized it can be at least half second probably. I actually pointed this before, but i don't know if i was clear enough about what i was talking and i don't know if it was tested or not. So i tried it myself. The bad news is you need to waste one super for that, but i don't think this would be a big deal.
smv
Edit: Managed to save 2 more frames, now it's 29 frames faster.
Nice Reeve!!! Have you tried grapple beaming off that top spark for a boost instead for wasting a Super Missile? Also I'm sure you could get that one a few frames faster if you use grapple as well.
Edit: Also hero what were you thinking of exactly?
