I figured if you exit the room in it's lowest possible position and sitting facing to the left, you'd avoid unnecessary airtime in the next room.
No. As hero suggested, just check Cpadolf's submission here. You can jump exactly same low like you did and still manage to exit with turn around by using hero's release trick.
And yeah, 49'05 is a great time for the first serious try. You already pwned every existing TAS here with that time. :-)
Hero:
The reason Kriole's exit is slower is not because of the turn around skip, but because he jumped off from the ledge in the next room much earlier instead of running through it till the end and falling with more momentum. He would end up same fast as Cpadolf's TAS if he would do just that. Still it's only a tiny 1-2 frames loss, so it's not a big deal, especially not in a entertainment run which is Kriole's speciality.
Lookin good Kriole. I am happy to see that you are not just copying other people's input, but rather trying things on your own and showing off some great intuition. This Wip has nice stylistic choices and overall good optimization. Keep it up :)
Thank you =)
hero of the day wrote:
As for the route...so maybe a few tanks can be skipped.
Cpadolf and Saturn discussed this over at m2k2, so I am aware of it. Though I think I'm rather rash in my decisions; I often take way too many packs than needed.
hero of the day wrote:
The torizo exit looks cool, but I am pretty sure it is slightly slower. I think I managed to exit the room like that a few months ago, before I found the most optimal way of doing it. You can refer to Cpadolf's submission to see it.
Hmm, I think I did that in my Gravy TAS. This is also something I need to work on; instead of going with something that feels like the fastest, I should try very many different tactics to tackle a room/obstacle.
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
wow I missed a lot. and yes, I did discover the "exit torizo while facing left". the olny reason I thought it would be faster is because Cpadolf's exit had 1 frame of falling in the next room, as did I with this trick. but without it, I had 3 frames of falling in the next room. but good job finding it on ur own Kriole. and because your stopping you Gravy TAS, can I see your route (if you have 1 planned out) through a PM so I can finish it, unless you dont want me to (which is perfectly fine, as you might want to do it 1 day). yay long post.
Edit: also, nice WIP Kriole. and in the room that you ended in, do what someone said and make sure to do it the way Cpadolf does in his SMI TAS, not the way me and hero do it, as I'm pretty sure Cpadolf did it faster.
Edit 2: didn't see you were already in red brinstar.
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
well hero found it, but you improved it. you took the damage boost al the way to you hit the ground, but hero turned around before he hit the ground. that what I meant when I said do it the way you did it.
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
and because your stopping you Gravy TAS, can I see your route (if you have 1 planned out) through a PM so I can finish it, unless you dont want me to (which is perfectly fine, as you might want to do it 1 day).
You can have the SMV and continue the run. I got far too many runs to do, and really don't feel like finishing the any%. Most of the tedious stuff is finished. Or the main tedious part. Mini-kraid; 6000 frame fight ;/
Just about to enter gauntlet in my RBO.. though I think I will redo the giant sidehopper room in red brinstar. Gauntlet without speed booster will be boring ;/
Woo! Double post.
Updated my run:
Reverse Boss Order WIP
Please be sure to poke holes into it. I feel that the big sidehopper room can be improved by some.
This is the best strategy to the sidehopper room I came up with after 20-30 minutes of testing, I believe it is the same that JXQ used in his 100% run. It is over 30 frames faster and also has the advantage of letting you pick up all the refills.
A few small errors I noticed:
In the big green Brinstar room with the Gate, it's faster to stay more away from the gate when it opens, and then run through it with much more momentum. The jump under it allows you to pass it a bit faster due to a reduced hitbox, but when you land you have to gain all momentum from scratch again, which is at least 10 frames slower than the strategy I mentioned above.
When opening the green door to the sidehopper room, you can save at least 2 frames by shooting the door on the first possible frame while aiming up instead of the usual horizontal shot that requires you to wait a few more frames until you reach the needed height to shoot the door. JXQ did the same mistake in both of his TASes there too. See my 2nd RBO teaser for a example on how to do it correctly.
And I strongly recommend to redo the sidehopper room using the strategy Cpadolf showed. I think I even did this room a couple of frames faster in my RBO run, but it required the Wave/Spazer Beam which you don't have yet.
Otherwise it looks pretty good so far. Keep going.
And I strongly recommend to redo the sidehopper room using the strategy Cpadolf showed. I think I even did this room a couple of frames faster in my RBO run, but it required the Wave/Spazer Beam which you don't have yet.
Otherwise it looks pretty good so far. Keep going.
I redid that room the way Cpadolf did. That and some other improvements put me about 45 frames ahead of myself =)
evilchen wrote:
Yeah! Finally someone's making a RBO-run with decent progress speed. This WIP made me really wait for the run, I can't wait 'till you pwn Ridley.
By the way, I suggest you learn some more about suitless Maridia optimization, since your test SM:I-TAS was kinda ruined at that point. :/ It'd be nice to see actually how fast movement can be there.
The best of luck Kriole.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
By the way, I suggest you learn some more about suitless Maridia optimization, since your test SM:I-TAS was kinda ruined at that point. :/ It'd be nice to see actually how fast movement can be there.
Relax. My SM:I TAS was ruined since I was very unsatisfied with my ammo management. Having to revisit a room just to refill feels extremely unoptimized. Well, I have to admit, my standards were a little too high, being a test-run and all. Hell, I didn't even bother to do serious UWWJ's.
Next goal being gauntlet, which will be very hard to optimize. I'm going to see what I can do with the assets I have at the moment. Will be a little a lá impossible.
Yes, I know it was short, but instead of releasing it in 90712558917 years when I'm finished with gauntlet, I saught advice with the giant side hopper room. -simuposts for the win-
However, facing an RBO, UWWJ's will probably be needed. And convinced that I was, the current "omg walljump as quick as possible" could not be the fastest anywhere. So I started some test:
All tests were done under the same conditions. Same starting position and same ending. The height was about 3 blocks, hi-jump equipped. By frame circle, that is how long I hold jump.
Three frame circle: took 339 frames.
Four frame circle: took 282 frames. 57 frames faster than the former.
Five frame circle: took 266 frames. 16 frames faster than the former.
Six frame circle: took 261 frames. 5 frames faster than the former.
Seven frame circle: took 255 frames. 6 frames faster than the former.
Eight frame circle: took 257 frames. 2 frames slower than the former.
I did not do any tests after that, looking at the pattern, I take it just gets slower and slower. So holding the jump button for 7 frames before executing the next jump underwater is the most optimal I found, 84 frames gained, over a 3 block distance, over the good ol' walljump as quick as possible. If anyone wants to disprove me, please do.
EDIT: Correction; the distance was 5 blocks.
Very nice analyses, Kriole. When TASing Maridia during the RBO, I found out that 7 and 8 frame UWWJ's work best with HJ-Boots, but I never made such tests to fully confirm that. It's good to see that my numbers were correct. :-)
Ok, after some testing I noticed a wrong statement by me that I want to clear up now to avoid confusion later:
Saturn wrote:
The reason Kriole's exit is slower is not because of the turn around skip, but because he jumped off from the ledge in the next room much earlier instead of running through it till the end and falling with more momentum. He would end up same fast as Cpadolf's TAS if he would do just that. Still it's only a tiny 1-2 frames loss, so it's not a big deal.
This statement is actually not true. I just tested this sequence carefully, and in fact, Kriole did the entire Torizo skip same fast like Cpadolf and everybody else. Although he jumps off the ledge much earlier and with less momentum, he gains the loss back by landing on the main ground much sooner and thus can run at full speed for a longer time. Just like using turnaround or not to exit Torizos room, falling or jumping off the ledge in the next room is same fast in the end as well.
The reason I first thought Kriole's strategy was slower is because of this wrong statement which I at first believed blindly:
moozooh wrote:
Well, that Torizo skip was 2 frames slower than the one I did in NBMB WIP...
I'm pretty sure moozooh either confused something, or just didn't mention that the gain is either somewhere before getting the bombs, or after them somewhere in the mainstreet room, but definitely not in the area between the Bomb collection and the exiting of the long room with the bats right after it.
So please moozooh, if you make statements like that, try to at least make them truthful. You really confused me and some people unnecessarily with that.
