I wasn't sure at first whether or not this was a good game to do. Having watched the previously cancelled 1p run of the game. It seemed pretty bleak that I should ever consider doing this run, but I enjoyed the game a lot when I was younger and I always wondered for a long time why a 2p run was never done. After considering that I thought why can't I fill the gap. The first moments of running it, I didn't think this was going to work out until I found a jumping glitch that enables either player to travel triple the height of what there normally capable of doing. The greatest piece of advice I recieved for the run was from Nitsuja when he said that I should the autohold feature. This never would have been possible on previous versions of GENS.
  • One person controls two characters
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Uses left+right movement
The levels end when the trailing player touches the end point of the screen so its important that the leading player does everything in their power to help the trailing player maintain there speed so I use a magic cape jump to deal with enemies and obstacles. Although its not always that simple because sometimes the other players cape stuns the other person, leading to a significant delay. There also other complications such as the enemy recovering before the trailing player can run past them. The magic cape jump does lose speed a little, but usually not enough to trail behind the other player. Donald always starts ahead of Mickey in the range of 10-20 frames, more often than not it 20 frames.
World 1: For the jumping glitch to work you just need something thats springy that will propel that player twice there normal jumping height. Its frame specific but its more than replicatable and is risk free if you jump late. Tapping the button for one frame at the exact moment will cause the player to propel twice the height, holding the button for two frames will allow the player to go triple the normal height. Holding the button any longer will allow the player to go slightly higher, but it will cause the floaty effect that a normal jump would cause and is entirley useless throughout the game. I also use left+right movement to pass through the eagle, but that was the only use it had in the game.
As soon as a player is in crawling animation and is under a tunnel, the game puts the character into auto pilot so doing any kind of fast crawl cancel is not possible. Crouch running under high up tunnels is infinitley faster than normal crawling the best timing I found for doing it was down for six frames and letting go for three frames and then iterating the process.
World 2 :
The Wild West level is by a country mile the hardest level in the game to do, as its a vertical climbing stage where nearly every enemy on the screen causes either players problems espeacially during climbing animations. A third of the re-record count was taken up by this level alone. The rope glitch was a sweet find, it happens becuase the rope is fully unwinded before the screen has caught up with the current on screen player. Only one player was able to reach the ledge first time after performing it, so the other player needed to wait until the other player was high enough to reach the ledge and then touch the rope themselves, while still facing the correct direction while performing it. The drawback to doing it is that no player will be able to hand down any rope until either player takes damage or dies. The next glitch was legendry and it hard to properly explain until you see it yourself. When performing the magic cape move in midair it is briefly assumed that when the player is in their finishing stance that they're standing on the ground, but its not possible to jump during this process because the falling animation imeadiatley kicks in preventing them from jumping again, but this can be abuses if the other player is standing in the right place above them becuase its assumed that they are able to stand on top of them and therefore they can jump. When the help speech bubble appears, the game is confused becuase it thinks a fully formed rope exists and pulls them up to the previous screen coordinates of the last rope position.
The glitch still exists in the clouds and would have been annoyingly activated if I jumped a frame later on my second jump for either characer, I did find one cool shortcut for it though, but the glitch was lost as soon as the Mickey casts the "Alakazam" trick after the boss battle.
World 3:
left right swimming saves roughly four to five seconds during vertical accents.
Before I get hit by the starfish in the Sunken Ship level I go into crawling animation before I get hit to avoid the normal damage animation.
World 4:
I thought at first what I did was a sequence break, but it turns out after all these years that the Christmas Tree level was nothing more than a secret level, but I did use a shortcut that saves 20 seconds. Candy Land level is my favourite level in the whole game.
World 5:
I seriously want to kill anyone who ever worked on the game for producing such a lame and tedious second level namely the Mystery Door level. You are made to do various sections from previous worlds and you can't avoid them, All the gameFAQS where wrong on this level as they said that you have to choose the right door to advance to the last level or face doing a previous level. It doesn't matter what door you choose first as it will always be the swimming level and if you choose the same door again you'll have to do the level all over again. The second door will always be the Magic Carpet level, then the Diamond Mine level, then the previously skipped Christmas Tree level and finally the Magican's hall.
The last level seemed to lag a lot which was somewhat annoying. The bosses in the are barely worth mentioning a whimper becuase it easy to optimize the first frame of opertunity becuase the cape has a long time damage period and large attack radius.

Truncated: This has taken a while, will try to reach a desicion within a week.

Truncated: After discussing this some, my verdict is Reject. Many levels have long streches of mindless running, with nothing interesting happening. The water levels are the worst. The only fun parts are the high jumps in the first level and the rope glitching later, but overall I don't think there's enough going on to make this interesting, and nifboy had it right when he cancelled his movie of this game with the words "I picked an awful, awful game to even try to run".

adelikat: Unrejecting and accepting for publication to the Vault

nanogyth: Processing for publication...


Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
comicalflop wrote:
can you use the editing of this page to create new webpages i.e. a new section for tricklist or a user profile page?
Not really, but if you put a request there, I can do something about it. If you would like a user homepage, contact Bisqwit.
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Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I think possibly if the sandbox section can be used to let any user besides editors to make their own home pages that'd be an interesting feature, instead of only editors having their own home pages. Just a little thought, as I learn new information about TASers from their homepages, and it'd be a nice feature if maybe a homepage was automatically created when someone makes a submission that the player can edit, much like how they can edit their submission.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
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comicalflop: anyone can edit their homepage regardless of if they are an editor. But homepages are not created automatically any more (after someone evil registered with names like "FrontPage", "FAQ" and "RecentChanges"), so you have to ask Bisqwit. See the list of permissions for who can do what.
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Truncated wrote:
comicalflop: anyone can edit their homepage regardless of if they are an editor. But homepages are not created automatically any more (after someone evil registered with names like "FrontPage", "FAQ" and "RecentChanges"), so you have to ask Bisqwit. See the list of permissions for who can do what.
mean people making forum names like that- ya I see your point. the list of permissions seems inaccurate, as I've spent about an hour noodling around and cannot do any editing of web pages to create/link to newly made pages, despite in the permission list players listed as able to edit homepages.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (980)
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Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I feel like I'm missing something with what you are saying. But I'll try again: Players can obviously only edit their own homepage, and you don't seem to have one. Ask Bisqwit and he will create comicalflop.html for you to toy around with. This does not give you permission to edit the rest of the pages on this site, but you can of course ask him for permission to do that too.
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
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alright all cleared up from that post and the thread in the sites forum. sorry to have detracted in this thread.
Homepage ☣ Retired
Mitjitsu
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Posts: 2997
I disagree with the bit where it says the water levels were the worst. I personally thought the Mystery Door level was the worst. I know there is a few unoptimized bits, which you mentioned earlier and I know where some of the later bits were, but I didn't feel in the mood to optimize the entire game becuase I was so unsure as to whether anyone would find it entertaining even if it was a trully frame perfect run. The rope glitch doesn't actually work in the first level because the rope needs to touch the ground and become fully formed while the screen is still scrolling upwards. What pissed me off the most was the fact that I lost the rope glitch after casting the "Alakazam" trick after the second boss battle. I disagree with Adelikats comments in relation to being able to easilly replicate that in a speedrun. Its true for most of it I would agree, but 95% of enemies you see on screen pose some challenge and are hard to avoid without pausing. The jump gltich is frame specific but doable, but the rope glicthes would be near impossible to do in real time due to the nature of the precision thats required, but to conclude I think I was doomed before I started, but its nice to say that I have a 2P run under my belt as there isn't that many people that could say that.
adelikat
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
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Well, I was speaking of the way it looks. In actual practice, I am sure it would be difficult to replicate. It looks rather mundane. This isn't a lack of optimizations on your part but rather a problem with the TAS potential of the game.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
TASVideosGrue
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om, nom, nom... blech, stale!
Mitjitsu
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Posts: 2997
Having watched it back a couple of days ago I find it pretty cringe worthy to watch from a technical stand point. Not doing a bigger jump when using the cape is a pretty noticable error in the first level. Missing health pickups which would have allowed for more damage in later stages is another one. There is also the momentum bug where you can maintain higher speed if you continually jump after sliding down a slope. I will admit I didn't put a great deal of effort into it at the time. Knowing full well there was a 50/50 chance of it being rejected. The plan was to submit an improved version in 2007 in the event that it was accepted. Nowadays with my waning interest in TASing I couldn't care less if it was accepted or not since I have no interest in submiting an improved version. Link to video
adelikat
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Are you going to cancel this submission?
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Mitjitsu
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I'm not sure, it depends if it will inspire someone else to submit an improved version somewhere down the line.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2217] Genesis World of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck "2 players" by Mitjitsu in 18:47.73
Mitjitsu
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Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
Been known about for a while, but there is a wall clipping trick that can be done with 2 players, by abusing the crawl glitch. You can continually build up speed. Allowing for some potentially crazy stuff. However, it's hard to exploit. Link to video Link to video Link to video