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Posted: 6/14/2004 5:13 AM
(Edited: 8/11/2004 12:21 AM)
Post subject: Theoretical legit speed run limits
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
In this topic, I want people to estimate for different games what they think is the fastest time than anyone could hope for without using save states or slow motion. Of course perfection theoretically could happen but it never will. Here are my estimations for the fastest times I could imagine anyone getting for a few games: SMB - 5:09 SMB2 - 10:00 SMB3 - 11:12 LoZ 1st quest - 31:00 LoZ 2nd quest - 34:00 AoL - 1:08:00 ALttP - 1:39:00 OoT - 5:00:00 DKC - 44:00 Edit: Because of some things that have happened, I've decided to change some of my estimates, and I also add in DKC.
Posted: 6/14/2004 5:21 AM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Rockman X 100% - 42 minutes Rockman X2 100% - 50 minutes Rockman X4 using Zero - 45 minutes Rockman X5 - 10~15 minutes, I don't know for sure how long it takes to do the last levels naked SotN - 55 minutes SotN Richter/Maria - 10 minutes SotN Axelord - 45~50 minutes, I don't know how much the faster running speed will help if you have to switch out to jump Bionic Commando - 17 minutes Umihara Kawase - I've never known anyone who's even finished the game, much less in a speed run THAT'S IT! UMIHARA KAWASE AESTHETIC FORM ATTACK W/ RERECORD!!! ..I have a new purpose in life~!
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 6/14/2004 11:15 AM
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Boco wrote:
THAT'S IT! UMIHARA KAWASE AESTHETIC FORM ATTACK W/ RERECORD!!!
:) NES or SNES version?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 6/14/2004 1:27 PM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Is this with or without glitches? Here is without: DD2(single) - 15:00 Kid Icarus - 30:00 Little Nemo - 32:00 LoZ 2nd quest - 36:00 (its really tough) MM1 - 28:00 MM2 - 31:30 (we'll see about this) MM3 - 45:00 RCR - 15:00
Posted: 6/14/2004 1:59 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Nach wrote:
Boco wrote:
THAT'S IT! UMIHARA KAWASE AESTHETIC FORM ATTACK W/ RERECORD!!!
:) NES or SNES version?
..there's an Umihara Kawase game for NES? I thought there was only the SNES and PSX ones.. Anyway, because the game has built-in recording capabilities, it has built-in rerecord (record a level in game, use savestates in the level, etc.. when you play it back, record the demo playing for distribution along with your save data).. so I don't even have to wait for a stable rerecording emulator. But then again, the game is hard to play prettily.. I always just mess around ^_^;;; So I really shouldn't go near this game.. >.>
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 6/14/2004 2:07 PM
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Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Boco wrote:
Nach wrote:
Boco wrote:
THAT'S IT! UMIHARA KAWASE AESTHETIC FORM ATTACK W/ RERECORD!!!
:) NES or SNES version?
..there's an Umihara Kawase game for NES? I thought there was only the SNES and PSX ones..
I only heard of it for SNES, but the rest of your list was NES so I figured I'd ask. I couldn't get past level 7 or so, how many levels are there?
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 6/14/2004 2:13 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Nach wrote:
I only heard of it for SNES, but the rest of your list was NES so I figured I'd ask.
Only one game on my list was NES.
Nach wrote:
I couldn't get past level 7 or so, how many levels are there?
There are 49 Fields, as far as I know, and most have multiple exits. The numbers go all the way up to 57, but I can't figure out how to access some of them.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 6/14/2004 5:47 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (827)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Maniac Mansion - 9:45
Posted: 6/14/2004 10:04 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Is this with or without glitches? Here is without: I'm not sure, whatever you want. Of course it also depends on what you consider a glitch and what you don't, and also whether you ban all glitches or just some. I wouldn't consider the shortcut in Bowser's Castle in SMB3 a glitch. However, I would consider the alternate pipe glitch in 8-4 in SMB a glitch, but I would allow it anyway, but I would ban walljumping. In SMB2, I would ban the doublejump glitch only if used to skip a part of the level you normally have to play. In LoZ I would allow the key glitch. I don't know too much about the Megaman games, but I would obviously ban the glitch where you get stuck in a wall and get pushed really fast, and I would also ban the glitch that lets you warp to the other side of the screen.
Posted: 6/15/2004 7:04 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
OoT - 4:55 ALttP - 1:38 Thought I'd give my two cents on those two.
Posted: 6/16/2004 2:13 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Would that OoT time be with or without glitches? Edit: By the way, 4:55 would be a pretty cool video to see. How much time do you think you would need to practice in order to be good enough to do that?
Posted: 6/16/2004 8:33 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Because OoT is a far longer and more complex game than any 2D Zelda, I'm going to have to say it takes a long time to get so good you could speed run it. I mean, most of the best players for OoT played it for years on end. If you're a newbie, you can do pretty well, but I'd be shocked to see a sub 5:30 run by anyone who hadn't played the game for at least a considerable amount of time.
Posted: 6/23/2004 8:12 PM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
DKC- 47:00 It may be possible to get 46 in a speedrun, I'll find out soon enough.
Posted: 6/24/2004 1:18 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Would 47 minutes be with or without saving at Candy?
Posted: 6/24/2004 1:51 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
without, but it would require the run to be flawless.
Posted: 6/24/2004 5:46 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
DKC- 47:00 It may be possible to get 46 in a speedrun, I'll find out soon enough. I just looked at Penev's website and I noticed he said he beat the game with 101% in 46 minutes on an emulator (I assume this was with save states). He also said that he beat the game from start to end in 27 minutes on an emulator. Here's the page so you can check that out if you want: http://www.geocities.com/spenev/karttimes.html
Posted: 6/24/2004 6:43 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
DKC 101% 48min!! (46!!!! on ROM)
so he did it legitamately in 48 mins? I'm guessing that's with saving. Interesting thought, if someone ever did manage to get 46:00 in a pure speedrun, it would be so amazing that there wouldn't be any need for a time attack of this game.
Posted: 6/24/2004 5:12 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Never underestimate the power of save states and slow motion. No matter how good the legit speed run is, you'll always be able to find plenty of ways to improve it. I wouldn't be surprised if 45 minutes, or maybe even 44 minutes was possible.
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:17 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
"SMB - 5:09 SMB2 - 10:00 SMB3 - 11:12" my times... smb- 5:09.3 smb2- 10:20 smb3- 11:57. In smb1, a 5:08 is possible. I am extremely close. 1 game unit better would be a 5:08 i beleive. with the alternate pipe glitch, i am sure i could gte a 5:08, i just want to do a no glitch run though.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:20 AM
(Edited: 2/20/2006 12:23 AM)
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I don't want to crush your hopes or anything andrewg, but: SMB 1 in 05:06 - http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario1.html SMB 2 in 09:42 - http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario2.html SMB 3 in 11:11 - http://speeddemosarchive.com/Mario3.html These are all legit speedruns played on a real NES.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:23 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
my smb1 time is better... by SDA timing my time is 5:06, by Twingalaxies timing is a 5:09. It is .3-.4 seconds faster than trevor seguin's. the others i have been practicing on a bit, i know i can beat the smb2 time, and possibly the smb3 time. I was watching the smb2 run, and it was almost IDENTICAL to how I play, but it was crazy the similaries. I even used all the same characters. heres the video. http://www.vidilife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=E8E7EA35-E98E-451F-AB34-5&action=10 and check out the full completion run i did at SDA if you like.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:31 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Oh, sorry didn't take different timings into aspect... Out of curiosity, do you play all runs on emulator or are some of them on console? If you can pull a faster SMB 1 speedrun off on console, that would be really awesome. :) If you didn't know, emulator speedruns are not accepted because they can't detect whether you used savestates or not.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:33 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
console. i dont have an emulator actually. i have played using one though. unforunately, SDA said they wouldn't accept my run because it wasn't a second faster.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:34 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1828)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Wow, then you really have to send some tapes or DVD-recordings to SDA and/or Twin-Galaxies. :) Beating the Super Mario speedruns is quite a huge deal... If you're unsure how to record to VHS or DVD read the FAQ on SDA first...
My own page on this site.
Posted: 2/20/2006 12:36 AM
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andrewg
Experienced player (702)
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 742
Location: Quincy, MA
NES TAS of 2011
i edited the post. umm.. i have, no one really cares it is .3-.4 seconds faster, which is kind of stupid. it has been verified by TG ans SDA wont accept it.
Super Mario Bros. console speedrunner - Andrew Gardikis
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