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Posted: 4/7/2007 5:15 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
The Arena was real fast, and nice skippage of the boss fight!
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Posted: 4/24/2007 2:47 PM
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Tengu
Joined: 12/4/2004
Posts: 7
any progres so far?
Posted: 4/28/2007 6:40 PM
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Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
Continued today... It took me nearly the whole day to find out the fastest way of killing Graham. I somehow even messed up me savestates and had to redo the fight. Anyway. Before the fight I was about 4400 frames ahead of Atma, afterwards it were almost 6900 frames. So the fight saved about 40 seconds. The Final Sword really is incredibly fast. If I continue like this I should easily save more than 2 minutes at the end...
Posted: 5/2/2007 4:28 AM
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Magish
Joined: 11/28/2006
Posts: 16
Just watched your WIP, the only thing(s) I can think of are when you kill that one giant armor thing (that gives 120% str soul), and especially at the valkyrie-thing before the 2-hand/eye boss that gives the Bat soul (yes, I'm bad with names.), the delays for luck-manipulation are really noticable. I have no experience personally, but it seems to me that there'd be some way to make it less apparent (delay a couple hits on the armor slightly, maybe?). Otherwise, looks awesome! I do have a recommendation, though: when you write your submission text, you're probably gonna wanna give a description of how you skipped most of the bosses and stuff, cause I didn't even notice which ones you DID skip. :P On a side note, anyone know who's doing that all-souls run/what his progress is? I'd really love to see one, but given that the run would essentially be pure luck-manipulation, I don't think anyone would have the willpower to finish it before some method of getting souls besides brute force is found/made, like understanding the RNG better.
Posted: 5/2/2007 4:30 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (735)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Our good 'ole Pirate_Sephiroth is doing the all souls. I believe he has a handy frame search tool to help him with luck, and inside his own head mostly mapped out exactly how to run is going to turn out/where he needs to go/what to do. As for this, yeah, I had noticed the obvious delays, as compared to say the 12 minute hard mode warp run... I'd have to watch Atma's old run again to see if this was indeed slower or not.
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Posted: 5/2/2007 7:45 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
Magish wrote:
Otherwise, looks awesome! I do have a recommendation, though: when you write your submission text, you're probably gonna wanna give a description of how you skipped most of the bosses and stuff, cause I didn't even notice which ones you DID skip. :P
http://tasvideos.org/922S.html
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 5/12/2007 7:27 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Hey, Yrr. Repeating what I told you on IRC, you should redo it from the point you get Longinus Spear. What you did with Lubicant was great, but Longinus and Final Sword get really off the boundaries.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 5/13/2007 6:47 PM
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Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
Hm. Positive. In two weeks I should have more time to redo that. Problem is only that I play Dawn of Sorrow at the moment which is stealing my time :) Btw, Catoblepas-Soul and (and another soul from which I don't know the name) allows one to cancel a backdash. That is, you can move faster than usual just like with medusa head. Important! Our backdash run method isn't optimal. I've found out that it is better to backdash for 11 frames instead of 9 frames like we did before. Besides that, we should only open the menu in backdash. Opening menu costs one frame in which we can't move. Edit: I was wrong; our backdash method IS optimal.
Posted: 5/19/2007 8:17 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
lucky old us!
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 6/1/2007 2:01 AM
(Edited: 6/1/2007 2:04 AM)
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Location: Away
Apparently, certain souls that cancel Soma's current animation or drive him into [semi-]uncontrollable state (Manticore, for example) can be used to cancel the fall-from-great-height daze. Dragondarch seems to have used that in his NG+ speedrun, just before the first chat with Graham. Zurreco pointed out the lack of the daze so we analyzed the reason and came to this conclusion. More unneeded text here. Also, cocks.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/1/2007 2:03 AM
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IMPblackbelt
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
If you bother to get it, the Flying Armor soul cancels it if held when you land. Too bad it gets skipped, if I remember correctly.
Posted: 6/1/2007 2:04 AM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Yeah, Flying Armor is way out of the way.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/1/2007 9:42 AM
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Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
moozooh wrote:
Apparently, certain souls that cancel Soma's current animation or drive him into [semi-]uncontrollable state (Manticore, for example) can be used to cancel the fall-from-great-height daze. Dragondarch seems to have used that in his NG+ speedrun, just before the first chat with Graham. Zurreco pointed out the lack of the daze so we analyzed the reason and came to this conclusion. More unneeded text here. Also, cocks.
I know this, too, but Manticore just kills too much time, doesn't it? But it can be used in certain rooms to save a hell of time. Lol, has to be tried obviously. Man, the game starts annoying me. With medusa head this lag can also be skipped. Besides that, just equiping flying armor costs more time than a lag.
Posted: 6/1/2007 9:47 AM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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Location: Away
I mean, if you have a rush soul (or any other, for that matter) already equipped, you can easily avoid the lock by using the soul on the first (or so) frame upon landing.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/8/2007 8:25 AM
(Edited: 6/15/2007 6:43 AM)
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
Joined: 5/22/2007
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I am also working on my own run. I think it will show you something interesting. : ) However there is a problem bothering me....How do you time a run of this game, by the length of the run or using the in-game timer? Imagine that you have got two speedruns now: one of them takes more time in the menu so that its full length is greater than the other one, while its in-game timer indicates a shorter elapsed time than the other in the end. Then which one is better? Another question: Will a speedrun which takes damage to save time beat a damageless one if the difference between their length is small?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 6/8/2007 8:26 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Real time is recorded; in game time is not. Also, taking damage or not taking damage does not matter, so long as you only take damage to save time.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 6/8/2007 8:44 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
Joined: 5/22/2007
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Thanks for answering my questions (quickly it saves my time! ) :p Now I don't need to get Skull Archer Soul since it takes more than 140 frames and then I can go on with the run. Still, there are many problems such as whether to get the "STR+16 Soul" (I forget the name) and/or Longinus(or Ronginus?) and so on.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 6/8/2007 11:20 AM
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Yrr
Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern
klmz wrote:
Now I don't need to get Skull Archer Soul since it takes more than 140 frames and then I can go on with the run. Still, there are many problems such as whether to get the "STR+16 Soul" (I forget the name) and/or Longinus(or Ronginus?) and so on.
Get them. Ronginus rocks against Balore.
Posted: 6/15/2007 7:20 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
Joined: 5/22/2007
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Yrr wrote:
Get them. Ronginus rocks against Balore.
You mean both of them? Ronginus is well, but I think to get and equip "STR+16 Soul" will cost longer time than the bonus STR it gives can help to save on the way to Lubicants.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 6/15/2007 8:18 AM
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ShadowWraith
Joined: 8/7/2006
Posts: 344
FYI the STR+16 soul is Triton's soul.
Posted: 6/23/2007 10:19 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
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Yrr wrote:
Thx, but I've already tested it, the only thing I could get is the battle axe. My WIP. Try it yourself, I wasn't able to get the soul, and I have been working on this for 2 weeks now...
Now I have been getting lots of Zombie Soldier Soul and Rotten Meat instead of Combat Knife for two weeks.... Is there a way to know what should I do in order to get a certain item dropped by enemy?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 6/23/2007 2:42 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
klmz wrote:
Is there a way to know what should I do in order to get a certain item dropped by enemy?
No certain way yet. You have to manipulate randomness and hope for desirable outcome. pirate_sephiroth has listed all things that affect randomness somewhere in this or some other AoS-related thread. They include attacking, making the game generate flames or dust clouds, killing enemies, etc.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/24/2007 4:39 AM
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
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moozooh wrote:
No certain way yet. You have to manipulate randomness and hope for desirable outcome. pirate_sephiroth has listed all things that affect randomness somewhere in this or some other AoS-related thread. They include attacking, making the game generate flames or dust clouds, killing enemies, etc.
I've already checked the RNG value in Memory Viewer, tried to affect it by every means I know and then just got more Zombie Soldier Soul and Rotten Meat since a week ago. None of the five Zombie Soldier drops Combat Knife unless I stand still before them for over 300 frames or get damaged by them then kill a certain one in the right frame. I really don't want to slow down to get something dropped, but that ideal seems quite unreachable. To be honest, I've got discouraged and decided to take a break. EDIT1: I have even tried to enter to leave the room with White Dragon a few frames later with a different RNG value. But nothing seemed to change. @Yrr: I would like to know your progress and watch the latest WIP if it's available. :-)
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Posted: 6/24/2007 8:45 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
The randoms numbers are generated each one based on the previous one. Also, they have specific patterns: Soma generates certain numbers, enemies and other objects generate other values. In a nutshell, try to change what you do in a previous room and see what changes. Even if there are no enemies on the previous rooms, you can change the timing of your backdashes. The "dust clouds" generated by the backdash appear to increase the rng 2 or 3 times the value nomal attack does. Short backdashes will "increase" it faster (that makes sense, because you say you have to wait to make the combat Knife appear). Long backdashes change it slower (maybe you have to wait because you missed a opportunity a few moments before). Good Luck
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 6/25/2007 4:40 AM
(Edited: 6/25/2007 2:14 PM)
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klmz
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2160)
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My WIP here. I wasn't able to get the knife, and I have been working on this for 2 weeks now.... You may notice that I did neither turn around to the left the very frame I got Grave Keeper Soul, nor open the pause menu during a back dash. I did test doing them "the normal way", and I found my way faster in the end, which surprised me. EDIT: I did also test killing Creaking Skeleton when he was crawling back AND holding up his skull, which made the last two hits miss unless I jumped higher and then had my movie becoming longer.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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