First, I'd like to say that the strategy looks good, and the manipulation is good too. Now, I'll get into some optimizations.
General: You're much better at pressing buttons on earlier frames now, but it's still possible to do certain things (such as select a character, select a destination, or start moving the cursor) one frame faster. When in doubt, just keep doing it earlier until it doesn't work.
Chapter 1, turn 2: When wasting RNs, it's usually better to waste them while moving the cursor in a useful direction. In this case, up+left, down+left, up+left, up+left, down+left, up+left, down+left, up+right would reach the same RN and make the cursor reach Seth's destination about 20 frames more quickly than you did.
Chapter 2, turn 1: Moving the cursor to Gilliam and pressing L is 3 frames faster than moving the cursor to Vanessa directly. (Moving the cursor to Franz and pressing L twice will also work.) Also, after moving Vanessa, moving the cursor off her before pressing L will save 1 frame.
Chapter 2, turn 2: Again, moving to Gilliam and pressing L is faster. Also, moving the cursor in a way which forces the screen to scroll back after selecting Vanessa's destination lost a few frames. As in turn 1, move the cursor off Vanessa before pressing L (which is even more important now that pressing L immediately makes the screen scroll).
Chapter 2, turn 3: You made Vanessa move 2 extra spaces, thus losing 8 frames. This can be fixed by replacing up, nil, up+right, down+left, up with up, left, up+right, down+left, up+right.
Chapter 2, turn 4: I assume you've considered this, but I'd just like to point out that (if the RNG cooperates) it would probably be faster to make Eirika kill that brigand during the player phase.
I apologize if any of this sounds harsh. I merely intend to point out things you could have done slightly faster, most of which can only be noticed by someone with experience TASing a Fire Emblem game. I encourage you to keep up the good work on this run.
Thank you for the comments, I'll go through and fix the mechanical things. Also...I'm not quite sure why I manipulated the briand dying during the enemy phase. I had a reason, but I cannot for the life of me think of what that reason was, so I'll change it.
Redone through chapter 2, here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5748/FE8Speedv4.vbm
Didn't want to start chapter 3 until I was at least sure I was pressing buttons as early as possible, getting the cursor to characters in the optimal way.
EDIT: I also need advice on how many javelins to buy. I'd hate to have the same issues I had before with hex editting. I'm guessing I'll need something like 5 once you factor in ones coming with new characters, but Id like to hear other people's opinions.
Just a few things I didn't mention yet:
1. In menus, you can press A on the same frame that you press the last directional button. A small warning: if you do this in the item menu, that direction will also be pressed in the next submenu (equip/use, discard, trade).
2. Because L doesn't work unless the cursor is on a square, if you want to move the cursor before pressing L, you should continue holding B even on the frame that you press L. Also (you did this correctly once), you can press A immediately on the next frame after pressing L.
I didn't check any of the times you skipped a cutscene, but I'll assume you did that optimally. Other than what I mentioned here, I don't think there are any other places where you can shave off a few frames.
As for javelins, I don't know how many to buy. I can tell you that Molotov bought 10 javelins in his run, and I think I remember hearing that he had one left at the end.
Through chapter 4.
Chapter 3 is pretty optimla I think, but I'm much less confident about chapter 4. If someone could find a way to make that final Mogall attack Artur even when Seth doesn't have a javelin equipped, then I could give him his silver lance, OHKO the random zombies, AND get str, skl, and spd for both Vanessa and Seth (as opposed to just str and spd) while only abusing about 20 RNs. As it is, I'm happy to have found a situation that beats the chapter while still getting the levelups I did.
Well, normally I wouldn't post a WIP with just one new chapter (and a short one at that), but I'm busy studying for finals and won't be able to get to chapter 5x for a while. Thus, here's Chapter 5.
Chapter 3: Unless I'm mistaken, this is approximately 1 second faster than Molotov's run, which means the strategy is slower. Were the levels gained by Vanessa worth the extra time taken?
Chapter 4: This chapter looks good, and winning before the reinforcements show up on the upper left is impressive. As for your question, I don't know exactly how to do it, even though I successfully did the same thing (unmanipulated, even) in chapter 26 of my FE7 test run. I know lowering Artur's HP helps, but I'm not sure if that would be enough here.
Chapter 5: May I suggest moving to this space on turn 2 instead? It's a slightly longer route (measured in squares), but you'll get into 3 fewer battles, and you'll still win in 3 turns.
Thanks for the suggestions--I'll get on them right when I have a chance.
I'll also make sure to watch Molotov's chapter 3 to see what his strategy was.
EDIT: Wow, never even thought of going up and around with just Seth. I'll make a point to always watch Molotov's run before planning my own strategy from now on.
EDIT2: I've counted it up, and my strategy only has two more attacks (the primary source of wased time, considering that Molotov's strategy takes a more roundabout path) than his, which I believe to be worth it for two levelups. Hence, I'm leaving chapter 3 how it is unless someone can convince me that his strategy really is better. I think the time I lost simly came from the fact that I got more levelups, which take several seconds each.
Also, allowing Artur to be hit by one of the skeletons makes him higher priority to attack than Seth with a silver lance. I'll look to abuse two levelups and a failed dodge, now.
Here's my redo of chapter 4 and 5. I also realized that without both of those levelups in chapter 3, Vanessa isn't one-round KOing the enemies in chapter 4, so I'm definitely keeping it.
Fire Emblem for a TAS? Oh boy, this will be a big one if it is completed. Whoever perfects this and submits this is a god in my book.
Hrm...it seems to me the most important stats for a TAS here are Strength and Speed. Just saying if it hasn't been said already. If you need to gain a stat in a level up, I'd put high priority on those two and usually ditch everything else in favor of time. Of course, then there is the problem with finding the right RNs for misses and hits.
Can Pierce activate in a triangle attack? Because if you have that + max str + Vidonfr...I believe that might be a OHKO...but I haven't bothered calculating that yet.
I'm trying for str, skl, and spd every levelup, but if crazy things like 5 straight dodges or 1% criticals or whatnot have to be manipulated, I'll just go for str and spd.
I'm also planning to at least look into a triangle attack in order to OHKO Formotiis, but in general, Vanessa will have enough skill to critical things on her own (or, in the worst case scenario, I give her a killer lance). I am a bit worried about getting an Elysian Whip, though, because I'll be finishing the chapter with Cormag before he even appears. I'll just have to see if I can get the one in chapter 8 without too much fuss. I'm almost certain it'll save time in the end, unless it's one of those chests in the upper right, in which case I'm not so sure.
EDIT: It is...this is a very good reason to consider Ephraim's route again, which allows me to recruit Cormag. I'll of course be able to promote Vanessa with the Earth Seal in chapter 15, but I may lose a few turns due to not being able to smash through bosses, and having to attack again/bring Seth along.
EDIT2: Just took another look at Eirika's route, and there's no real need to have Vanessa promoted before chapter 15. My confidence in my choice is once again well-founded.
Skill eh? I wonder though, is it worth the time to raise a stat that has very little effect except in large quantity? It takes two level ups to gain a point in Crit rate, which by itself is negligible. Let's see, is it favorable to gain 10 levels for a grand total of 5% more crit rate?
I expect also you will sell all promotion items in favor of funds, and not wasting time promoting units. I know you get one guarenteed knight's crest, and I think you probably get a Orion's Bolt considering that you crash through chapter 6 with Seth. Hrm....methinks you might be able to use that to buy more killing weapons at the right Secret Shops (DOH, those come late in the game anyway), cause otherwise, you only get just a few...unless MAYBE you effectively abuse the control-enemy glitch.
Hah, it looks like you are actually going to have a very useful Syrene in this run when she's an otherwise completely worthless unit.
Yeah, I salute you for considering this game for a TAS. May it work out.
The point of getting skill isn't in making luck abuse easier against normal enemies. It's to ensure at least a 1% crit rate against bosses. Buying killer weapons will be a huge waste of time, so I'd rather not.
Vanessa is the only unit I currently intend to promote (because Wyvern Knights can pierce), but I may end up promoting Gerik, for the increased range of a Ranger.
I don't intend to sell anything. I don't intend to buy anything past the javelins I've already bought, so I don't need money.
Indeed, manipulating a 54% hit with a 3% critical can be annoying. It may be faster to waste the RNs on a previous turn, but I could be wrong. Also, I'd just like to remind you that this isn't FE3, and thus the cursor is allowed to cut across walls and other places you can't move in order to reach somewhere you can move.
I'd just like to point out that I believe you could save time by using Kyle to kill that Mercenary in Chapter 5x. This way, you avoid gaining a level with Forde, which eats time. That is, unless you had a reason for powering him up.
Other than that, I'm not really any good at spotting TAS mistakes, so I can only focus on things that jump out at me. Good job so far though. :)
...that would save time. I'm torn between thanking you and get annoyed at you for making me redo it, but at any rate, I will redo it. Not until at least tomorrow though, as I have a math final to study for today.
Looks good to me. There is one thing I want to suggest, but I'm not sure if it's actually faster. When you move Orson in range of the Archer the first time, shouldn't you equip him (through trade, I guess) with a Javelin? I notice you go through 2 extra battles because you spare his life. Since Orson gains little experience anyway, it seems logical to get him off your back.
Then again, I'm not good with these sorts of frame count specifics, so it could be faster to let him bully Orson.
[Edit]: Disregard all that. Nitrodon told me Orson can't kill in one shot without a 3% critical. Not worth manipulating.
(Actually I meant 3% minus the 2 luck the archer had, sorry for the misunderstanding.)
I checked, and the 1% critical can be manipulated anyway by wasting 34 RNs (which you would waste on the way to the 54% hit, 3% critical anyway), so it would be worth manipulating. Since you don't use the silver sword during this chapter, it would be faster to trade that away to put the javelin in the first slot. (If you plan to give Seth the silver sword and don't need the extra javelin prior to chapter 15, this also saves a trade in chapter 8.)
I also noticed you unnecessarily killed a mage with a javelin counter on turn 6. Since you use the Steel Lance against Zonta and don't trade it to Ephraim at the end, you can do all of your trading to Ephraim before dropping him on turn 6, thus avoiding this counter efficiently.
Dang both of you. Also, I do equip the silver sword, as it allows Orson to kill the fighter at the mouth of the corridor without manipulating an extremely unlikely critical early.
But I guess I'll go redo the chapter again, though at least this time I can keep the first two turns.
After looking again, I can see that manipulating the critical to kill that archer makes it harder (98 RNs wasted) to manipulate the critical against the cavalier next turn. However, getting criticals against the next two enemies only wastes 11 and 29 RNs respectively in that case, assuming my memory doesn't suck. Your current run has 17, 2, and 67 RNs wasted respectively.
If you don't kill the archer, the fighter still dies to a critical if you waste 4 RNs instead of 2, so the silver sword is unnecessary either way.
Turns out that I have to choose between criticalling the archer and the cavalier, as manipulating both pushes me beyond my RN for the 54% accuracy critical. Criticalling the archer will save me 20 or 30 frames over the cavelier, though, so I'll gor for that one. (If Orson had even one more strength, he could OHKO the cavelier with a silver sword...).
Anyways, here's the new version. And before anyone asks, criticalling the boss takes more time in manipulation than it saves.
EDIT: I didn't see Nitrodon's post, and I'm not sure I understand it. Which enemies are you referring to? Also keep in mind that once I'm in the trading screen it takes like 3 frames per trade, so an alternative has to be really fast to beat that.
What I meant was that if you manipulate criticals on both the archer and the cavalier, you will still be able to get the 54% hit 3% critical from a different RN, approximately 32 later than the one you used.
The silver sword thing was mostly based on the assumption that (1) you'll want the silver sword sometime in chapters 9-14, and (2) the javelin Orson took can wait until chapter 15. If either of these assumptions is incorrect, I didn't really have any point at all.
Also, I still mentioned trading Orson's weapons to Ephraim at the end of turn 6 before dropping him, which will probably save a pitiful 10 frames or so from your current version (the time it took to change Orson's equipped weapon).
Also, I still mentioned trading Orson's weapons to Ephraim at the end of turn 6 before dropping him, which will probably save a pitiful 10 frames or so from your current version (the time it took to change Orson's equipped weapon).
Sorry, didn't notice that.
Given that Ephraim's group will have to do some movement in chapter 8 anyways (as enemies will carge at them whether I like it or not), I'll have plenty of opportunity to trade Orson's weapons away from Ephraim, but I don't know if I'll take that opportunity. On the one hand, if I will be trading during chapter 8, it doesn't matter when Orson gives away his silver sword, as it'll take the same time to give it to Ephraim or Forde.
So I just need to decide if I need the sixth javelin. Buying another from the shop is I believe out of the question, as it will be sent to storage. I think I also get a short spear some time during Eirika's route, though that may be a drop from an enemy I won't be killing, and I know I get a javelin from Tana in chapter 9. So 7-8 ranged weapons, over 10 chapters...I think I should be fine, given that some of those chapters are 1-2 turn victories.
So I guess that means I ought to trade the silver sword to Forde, making me redo from midway through turn 2, same as last time. And here I was, hoping I'd be able to keep up through the beginning of turn 3. Oh well.
At least I'm starting to get really good at redoing this chapter.
