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Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Can the pause menu skip trick be used to gain access to the epoch early on, kinda like how he unlocked the pyramid with the swallow in it early?
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
Saturn wrote:
As far as I know the de-equip trick only increases magic defense, not attacks. I did a quick test to be sure, de-equipping Crono's armor and helmet in a NewGame+, and Luminaire still did ~6050 HP damage, just like usual.
I did a quick test with a sub-level-50 Magus the other day. Dark Matter did about 1800 damage with stuff equipped, and 2100 with no helm or armour. Perhaps the higher your level, the less of an effect it has? My theory for this "glitch" is that it was deliberately implemented in the English version to help in the Blackbird -- specfically, if Ayla were fighting with nothing on. I noticed that her Tail Spin moves seemed to do a lot of damage to the enemies there. Were there any magic attacks there? Dalton Plus, I guess, if you didn't get any of Ayla's stuff before fighting him.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Saturn wrote:
Maybe inichi can clear us up further
Called up. :) Sorry, I provided false or misleading information in the earlier deequip trick explanation. I'll try to fix it: -About the Magic Attack increase If you deequip either armor or helm, his Magic Attack value is increased by 10, if you deequip both, it's increased by 20. Although you can't visually confirm these gains in the status screen, these values are actually added to the same address that Magic Attack value is stored in when a battle starts. (FYR, 7E5E66 is one for 1st character.) Also the trick doesn't allow Magic Attack to exceed 99, the limited value for Magic Attack, just as some accessory boosting Magic Power such as Magic Ring has no effect on a maxed character. So for the new game + case in which Crono's Magic Power is already 99, magic damage remain unchanged with the deequip trick. Also that means, each magic damage gain with the trick should always be fixed regardless of his level, of course except for an extremely high level that Magic Power is more than 79. To take Dark Matter as an exapmle, as long as Magus's Magic Power is less than 80, damage gain when you deequip his armor and helm would always be 300 or something as Floogal described, though I haven't tested it on my own. -About the Magic Defence Please forget the magic damage decrease rate I stated earlier, which is a hell of false. Here is the right decrease rate, I beleive. If you deequip either armor or helm, magic damage excluding Fire and non-element reduces to 4/19, if you deequip both, they reduce to 2/17(4/34). If a magic element is the same with his/her own element, the damage decrease rate is like this: 1/4(5/20) and 1/7(5/35). You can also confirm it, watching 7E5E6C - 7E5E6F, in which valuable of magic resitence is stored. They are correspond with Lightning, Shadow, Water and Fire in order and are used in each magic damage calculation. -About the version differences I wrote that the de-equip trick only works in the English version, but it was totally wrong. The trick doesn't increase Magic attack at all in the Japanese version. However it surely works on Magic Defence and it reduces even Fire damage as well as the other three elements. I have no idea why such difference happen.
hero of the day wrote:
Can the pause menu skip trick be used to gain access to the epoch early on, kinda like how he unlocked the pyramid with the swallow in it early?
Yes. You can skip the first unavoidable and unescapeable battle and the first conversation between the little frogs in Sewer Access with the skip trick. Here. I think the skip trick would save about 15 seconds there. The Epoch room cutscenes are also skippable. Here. But, the frame gain there would be so small because it takes somewhat long to reach the back of Epoch and to wait until the sealed door opens. I think the trick would save only 2-3 seconds there. However, I think I won't probably push the storyline that far. My current plan is just tell the woman to plant the tree in Zeal Palace in the 1st visit then immediately return back to 600 A.D. and head to Sunken Desert. The 12000 B.C. gate is still available at that point. So it would be at least 3 minutes faster than the usual way, sitting through the looong cutscenes, fighting Golem and going to 600 A.D. via the Mystic mountain gate, I guess.
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
I'm watching the WIP, but for me it freeze in truce cayon, and you can only advance by FastFowarding, is it normal ?
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
ZeXr0 wrote:
I'm watching the WIP, but for me it freeze in truce cayon, and you can only advance by FastFowarding, is it normal ?
No it isn't normal. Is it the first visit there in my test TAS WIP or other times? I passed through Truce Canyon seven times in my TAS. So it might be helpful for us to look into the cause of freezing with the info about when the freeze happens out of the seven visits.
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
Well it really happen often, but it seems to freeze the emulator for a couple of seconds, and then it unfreeze, but the game does not desync. I think it's more an emulator problem.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
ZeXr0 wrote:
Well it really happen often, but it seems to freeze the emulator for a couple of seconds, and then it unfreeze, but the game does not desync.
Hmm...That's odd. I've never encountered such symptoms on my emulator. I'm sorry, it seems I couldn't be of your help.
I think it's more an emulator problem.
I think so. Does anyone have ideas what is happening? That's too bad that I only have very limited knowledge about the emulator things. Thanks.
gocha
Any
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya
Unchecking "Sync Sound" may improve the situation, may not.
I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
It seems to have solve the problem
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
That's good to hear. I hope you enjoy the rest of the run!
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
If you got the epoch on the first visit to the future, you could just go directly to the dark ages and tell the woman to plant the tree. You wouldn't even have to advance the plot up to getting robo. Any reason not to do this?
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Ah I guess I've got it wrong with your question, due to my lack of English skills. Sorry for the confusion. There is no way to open the sealed door on the first visit to the future with the skip trick and any other currently known glitchs. Therefore, it is absolutely necesarry to normally advance the plot and charge the Pendant in Zeal Palace to get Epoch. That's a shame. BTW, we posted on exactly the same time.:)
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
In the fight against Magus, why does the HP of Chrono go down twice when he is hit ?
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Maybe, one is done by Magus's hit. And the other is done by Gayser's effect. Gayser is Magus's technique which causes HP gradually down during the battle. But I may be wrong, so I'll check it out. [edit] I just checked the smv and couldn't find any Crono's HP down other than by Magus's attack and Gayser's effect. So I guess you saw his HP was decreased by 1 with Gayser's effect just after Magus attacked him, and thought that as Crono's HP went down twice by Magus's hit.
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
During the figth of the BlackTyrano, you use Falcon hit and then a Volt Bit, is there a reason why don't use Volt Bit all the time as it seems stronger.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
It would be slower because the Volt Bite animation takes about 300 frames longer than the Falcon Hit one. Even so it would be slightly faster if two Falcon Hits and one Volt Bite can be replaced with two Volt Bites. However I only did 10528 damage to Tyrano which has 10500 HP in that battle. So if you did that replacement, it would be really impossible to beat Tyrano until he sets out the fire, which causes the serious delay, really.
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
Just popping in here with an AI-abuse trick for final Lavos: - In the Mammom Machine time zone, Lavos Core will wait until the left bit is revived before using Invading Light. If you keep destroying the Left Bit immediately after it's revived, Lavos Core will keep waiting and never actually do anything.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
I've finally managed to skip the whole Lavos Shell battles entirely. Here it is. Lavos Shell skip I think this trick would easily shave off 15 minutes from the run, and would save me from the tadious work such as developing a new strategy for each Lavos Shell form. Also some of you might think that Lavos Shell had already beaten before the movie was recorded, since you can see there is a hole on Lavos Shell's face. However, that Lavos with the hole is located there whether he's beaten or not. Actually, even the Lavos Shell apperance cutscene has not happened in the game yet, which would be easily confirmed by going back to the End of time using the near gate, and going to A.D.1999 again via the bucket. Oh, just so you know, I decided to stick to 1.43 for a while, although I said I would switch to 1.51. The reason is I found 1.51 contains a graphic bug issue like this, which frequently happens when loading a save state and frustrates me so much, it seems it doesn't cause desync though. I'll probably post the detail about the trick later, but in short, I made Crono appear at the same coordinate with where Lavo Shell's mouth is. This is the reason why the screen immediately changes right after Lavos Shell appears. Anyway I hope you enjoy it!
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Oh my god inichi, you are the greatest. The glitches you find are just sick and far beyond my understanding (at least on the first look). I really wonder how one can find the correct position to appear in Lavos mouth while being completely blindly and apparently without any clues at all while just running around in the end of time room. The way you break such a popular game like CT and do with it whatever you want is something I haven't seen in any game of such a level before. Just crazy, man. Now it seems that there are indeed chances to break the 2 hours barrier when using all the skip-glitches and therefore completely getting rid of any forced leveling ups. Looking forward for your final run.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Player (100)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Sorry to be a nuisance but I cannot watch Inichi's run as it desyncs for me as early as when Crono's supposed to collide with Marle. Is there somewhere that I can find the exact emulator configuration to play the movie or should I look for a new rom and hope it's compatible with the movie? I'm also curious as to why people post .smvs all the time instead of recording it to .avi and uploading it somewhere so it becomes easier to watch.
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
Vykan12 wrote:
I'm also curious as to why people post .smvs all the time instead of recording it to .avi and uploading it somewhere so it becomes easier to watch.
1. SMVs are small, AVIs are huge. 2. Encoding to AVI is more complicated than you might think it is. 3. Bandwidth isn't free. Seriously though, (not that the above wasn't serious..) playing back SMVs is not that complicated. You just need the right ROM, the right emulator, and the movie file. For the emulator, I suggest you get this one (if you don't have it already): http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6471
Player (100)
Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I agree with 1), but 2) is easy with Anri Chan, I do it all the time for my own videos and how is bandwidth an issue if you upload to filefront or YT? Edit: Seems the new emulator fixed the desync, thanks a bunch!
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
I've found that "Save anywhere trick" on GameFAQs is also available with the pause menu abuse. For those who doesn't know what Save anywhere trick is, it is a trick to allow you to save the game literally anywhere. And the effect never disappears unless you enter a room with a savepoint. In Chrono Trigger, an event check point has usually only 16 pixels wide. That means you can skip some unavoidable cutscenes and battles if you manage to go beyond a check point and save the game before you lose control. Here are all the result I got: Yakra skip Heckran skip Zombor skip v2 & Tata skip Also, here is a performance showing how to make it available Save anywhere trick at the End of Time. It would be about 500 frames slower than usual, but it's necessary to perform the trick at Zenan Bridge and Denadoro Mountains as above. I think you may need further explanation about Tata skip. Actually, there are a few points where two different landforms share the same coordinates in the game. And apparently the game saves only what coordinates are, not which landform Crono is. So, if you save/load the game on such a point, Crono will be located at one predeterminded landform regardless of which landform he was at. Very fortunately, it is always upper landform that Crono is located in such cases at Denadoro Mountains. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it. Also, Here is a detailed explanation about Lavos Shell skip trick. First of all, here are two facts that makes it possible to skip Lavos Shell: 1) In trying to warp to A.D.1999, if you somehow open the menu just before the fade-out starts, then the coordinates that Crono will appear at in 1999 are totally the same with where he was at the End of Time. 2) If that x-coordinate is the same with the Lavos' hole x-coordinate (which is 8) and that y-coordinate is the same with or below the Lavos' hole y-coordinate (which is 8), then the game immediately sends him into Lavos Shell. The thing is, you can directly access the inside of Shell Lavos if you manage to open the menu at (8,8 or any less) at the End of Time right before the fade-out starts. Of course it is out of the question in a normal manner. First, you lose control of your character as soon as you examine the backet. Second, (8,8 or any less) is outside the moveable area. To solve the problem, I took the help of another two gates, Bangor Dome gate and Tyran Fortless gate. Bangor Dome gate was used to change the direction that Crono flies to, and to get close to the needed position. Also, because Bangor Dome gate is the most left below gate out of nine gates, unlike the other gates, a line segment between the backet and the position Crono flies to contains the upper right corner of the gate floor, a moveable area, of course. This is of great importance after you regain control. Tyran Fortless gate was used to regain control and occur the second flying action. If you choose "yes" just before Crono starts flying, you can open the menu again. And if you change your party's order twice in that condition, Crono gets out of flying and you can control Crono again. As I said above, the line Crono fly along contains the moveable area. So if you restore the control on that area, you can have Crono run around as usual. If the other two characters finishes flying, Crono takes the second flying action. Very fortunately, a line segment between the bottom left corner and the position Crono flies to contains (8,8or7). And the fade-out starts when Crono passes on (8,8or7). So I simply moved Crono to the bottom left before he started flying again and opened the menu on a certain timing. Crono appeared at the same coordinates with Lavos' hole and Lavos Shell skip was possible. Also, I think the other gates proably wouldn't play the Tyran Fortless gate's role well since all the gate message is generally shown in order of priority no matter how you examine them. And it is only the Tyran Fortless message that is always shown after the Bangor Dome message. I myself have not exactly grasped the detail yet. So the explanation may be redundant and arbitrary.. But I hope the explanation will clear up some confusion. To Vykan12: I uploaded my test tas avi on Megaupload. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=E0P9SKAY I was not sure Megaupload was the right place and image quality isn't good at all. But if you have troble watching the smv again, you may want to try to downroad it from there. To Saturn: Thank you Saturn.:) But I honestly think sub 2 hours will be still far from realistic, even with Lavos shell skip trick and all the above new skip trick. My current target times is to break 2:15. I'm doing everything I can in order to accomplish that goal.
Joined: 6/2/2007
Posts: 55
inichi wrote:
I've found that "Save anywhere trick" on GameFAQs is also available with the pause menu abuse. For those who doesn't know what Save anywhere trick is, it is a trick to allow you to save the game literally anywhere. And the effect never disappears unless you enter a room with a savepoint. In Chrono Trigger, an event check point has usually only 16 pixels wide. That means you can skip some unavoidable cutscenes and battles if you manage to go beyond a check point and save the game before you lose control. Here are all the result I got: Yakra skip Heckran skip Zombor skip v2 & Tata skip
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're skipping here...I haven't played the game in a few months, but are you simply able to reload the game at certain points?
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883
I don't understand either. I just played the movie, but it didn't skip anything ?
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