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Posted: 6/26/2006 3:56 PM
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Mitjitsu
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Yay I made a 71 frame improvement on the seconds special minus a frame for collecting an extra ring so thats 70 frame net gain which is quite astonishing. http://rapidshare.de/files/24181121/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html Now act 3, I have an idea that might save 1-2 frames on this level but I couldn't be certain. I doubt 30 secs will be possible though. EDIT Could someone please clarify on my behalf please I think I've made a 2 frame improvement on Green Hill Zone act 3. http://rapidshare.de/files/24197917/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
Posted: 6/27/2006 9:23 PM
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Mitjitsu
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Someone please help me in Marble 1 I'm currently ahead of the previous 46 run on Marble one. I was ahead at the start with an ingenius jump that not only saves frames but collects more rings, but the advantage was short lived with the timed movement of the green podiums. I'm now ahead after more efficent movement after the rasing spikes that requires a block to move it upwards, but the damage boost is doing my head in because I nearly always get boosted to the left and when I get boosted to the right I don't go far enough. When I don't go far enough I required to jump under the falling block and get forced out which causes me to waste significant time. Unfortunatley I haven't grasped the concept of how damage boosts are pre determined, my only logical guess is the animation that sonic is currently on. Here where I'm it would be great if members would post now because I couldn't do this in the test run so I left it out but I have no choice but to include this in the current run. http://rapidshare.de/files/24308589/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
Posted: 6/28/2006 12:46 PM
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Mitjitsu
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OK done marble 1 in 46 with an 11 frame improvement over nfq which includes the time saved from collecting less rings I certainly hope you like this one. As well as that I did the special stage and made a two frame improvement over philipptr with a radically altered route. http://rapidshare.de/files/24368020/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html I'm going to take a break since marble 2 is where I'll lose the most time compared to the pure speed TAS. Whats the best source for maps as I don't have a proper ring route for it. EDIT: I've used the map provided on TSC and edited in the all the rings and boxes that can be relistically got. http://tagworld.com/pictureX/PictureDetail.aspx?id=6be67c7d-fb62-481f-b55c-0bf3967121b3&un=pictureX There is two possible methods but it would be quite an achivement to beat the level in under a minute 1. Collect all rings and wait approximatley 3 seconds for the spikes (which I edited in) in order to avoid taking damage. Get the invincibilty box (which I haven't edited in) to collect the rings hovering above the lava and thus proceed to the end of the level. 2. Mimic JXQ's run taking damage from the spikes and retriving 1-2 rings and getting the three ring boxes while collecting 20 additional rings as well and not getting the invinvibilty box. I know its difficult to see the rings and boxes but if you use the drop down menu you can view in its original size. This is the most important stage in the game for me so it would be extremley helpful if I got feedback. EDIT 2: Special 4 has been done onto Marble 3 http://rapidshare.de/files/24591937/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_1_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
Posted: 7/3/2006 6:52 PM
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Mitjitsu
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What a complete bastard. I'm 11 frames ahead of the previous run, but the moving platform before the signpost was slightly higher and caused me to increment my jump by two units and for each frame that you need to increment the jump by it costs 5 frames, but at least I made a 1 frame improvement on marble 3. Spring Yard will be easy and I'll experiment if 23 is possible (unlikely). If not I'll go for 30 secs. I trully convinced that sub 1:13 is impossible unless there is some zipping glitch. I've done Spring Yard as well and I (think I(please confirm) ) broke 24.33. I couldn't see a better route through because I don't think think its possible to fly directly into the the button and hit the yellow bouncer with 50+ rings. http://rapidshare.de/files/24862960/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_1_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
Posted: 7/4/2006 1:50 AM
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mike89
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30 - 24.33 = 5.66 5.66 * 60 = 340 50000 - 10000 = 40000 points get ticked off at 100 per frame 40000 / 100 = 400 You actually needed 23.33 to be quicker than stopping. For the sake of consistency you'd better redo this.
Posted: 7/4/2006 11:40 AM
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Mitjitsu
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Silly me I though I needed to break 24.33, I calculated it as being 24.25 or if I being mathmatically correct it would be 24.249999999....... I would like some advice on this stage although there is no way I think I could relistically get into the lower half of 23.33 since I don't see how I could arrive directly at the button/bouncer with 50 rings without have to do a delayed jump i.e. hit the box with 10 rings. I could have re-alligned that jump when I was upside down and collect one instead of 2 but there is simply not enough rings at the start to do that, so theoretically the higher half of 23 is possible but not <23.333.
Posted: 7/5/2006 10:20 PM
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Mitjitsu
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YESSS!!!! I've finally aquired all 6 emeralds and I'm currently on Spring Yard 3. Overall compared to the pure speed TAS I diverted 2:33:58 of time. So from here on in since no stages need to be completed in 30 seconds since the two star light stages can be completed in 22 and 17 seconds. I can now try and nit pick JXQ's although I doubt if there is many improvemts to it and I'm even more doubtful if the in game timer can be lowered in any of the stages. So here it is. Main Game Complete http://rapidshare.de/files/25111068/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_1_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html
Posted: 7/8/2006 1:48 PM
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Nsm
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it isn´t better you get some esmerald in Star Light Zone 2? If i remember in JKQ´s a big ring appears :p
Posted: 7/8/2006 2:05 PM
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Brushy
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Nsm wrote:
If i remember in JKQ´s a big ring appears :p
Who the heck is JKQ?
Posted: 7/8/2006 2:53 PM
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nfq
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Guybrush wrote:
Who the heck is JKQ?
JXQ, but you probably knew that.
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Posted: 7/8/2006 4:59 PM
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Mitjitsu
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NSM said: it isn´t better you get some esmerald in Star Light Zone 2? If I remember in JKQ´s a big ring appears :p No, that was Spring Yard 2 and in Star light he only collected 16 rings within 17 seconds, which makes it the shortest stage in the game. I don't see how 50 rings could be got with a 6 second diversion.
Posted: 7/9/2006 8:42 AM
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mike89
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There's 50 rings on the top path near the end...
Posted: 7/9/2006 1:28 PM
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JXQ
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This is looking good! I never would have thought so little time would be sacrificed to get the extra rings. I especially liked Marble Zone 1. Good luck in stomping my times in the remaining levels! Edit: Since you are going for absolute time over game time, you may want to finish Star Light 3 in 45 seconds instead of a high 44, unless you can gain enough frames to make it worth it.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 7/9/2006 2:56 PM
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Nsm
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lol, im talking about JXQ´s run, sorry :(
Posted: 8/5/2006 3:21 PM
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Mitjitsu
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Might as well give an update since I haven't posted in a while (this topic). I've have spent well over 1200+ re-records on this stage that I thought would be relativley straight forward . I'm currently at the boss on Spring Yard 3 but I've encountered some annoyances during it. Firstly the obstacles are timed in a way that forces you to wait so there is a limit to how fast you can really be. I lose a frame on the on the skid just before you're meant to get the invincibilty and speed boots. this is because when me and JXQ skid my character always floats for one frame longer despite the fact I synced with his run for 5 seconds so I could overcome this. However, I gained two frames on the jump to the button imeadiatley after that, I could very nearly land on the button without jumping if sonic stayed in the air for one frame longer, but during the penultimate jump to the robotnik section, the platforms are a one frame further away from me since I'm a frame quicker, this forces me to alter my jump and because of that I lose two frames to JXQ and the lag before Robotnik appears two frames earlier for him. So my point is, is it OK if I accept a one frame loss and move onto the (fatal) labyrinth since its destroying me. p.s. I'm actually on Robotnik, but its unlikely that I can do it one frame quicker.
Posted: 8/7/2006 3:05 PM
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Mitjitsu
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OK finally done it Here's the WIP for Spring Yard 3, I added in some of my own stylistic choices and collected one less ring which to me qualifies as a better level, but no improvement. Here's how it went I lost one frame on the skid before the invincibilty and speed boots. I then gained two frames on the jump to the button, but because of the setup of the moving stairs before robotnik I had to use a delayed jump into the bouncer before the stair section ENJOY ! http://rapidshare.de/files/28523231/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_1_ALL_EMERALDS.gmv.html Now to shit my pants on the (Fatal) Labarinth stages. I also put this up as well just to shown that nothing is ever random http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtoEgl1akU0
Posted: 8/7/2006 4:05 PM
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JXQ
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Interesting comparison video. Nice find toward the end where you pulled ahead for the win! In my experimentation on this (hellish) level, there was a very slight degree of randomness. Depending on when I arrived at an earlier place (I don't know exactly when, I just did pausing sometimes), I could make the platform appear on six different frames, I believe. I think xebra also mentioned a similar window for the moving walls near the beginning. The only question I have about the run is on the bonus stage you visit for Spring Yard 1. You seem to get hung up on several of the corners, is there a reason for this? Otherwise, nice work. I'm excited to see what improvements you find in the remaining levels.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/7/2006 6:01 PM
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Mitjitsu
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JXQ wrote:
The only question I have about the run is on the bonus stage you visit for Spring Yard 1. You seem to get hung up on several of the corners, is there a reason for this?
That special stage is highly questionable I know and will probally see a marked improvement if either me or someone else wants to do it but the trouble with the special stages that everything apart from the bouncers seems to be square based collision system which can often lead to huge inconsistencies of how sonic moves and re-acts, which is weird because I exploited a programming error in Marble 3 but cutting a corner of a circular based collision on the jump before going into the wall where the extra life is which saved about 10 frames. The special stages also jerk into the new postion every eight frames which can make seeing into the furure a little tricky. All of this leads to immense frustration, you also want to avoid jumping as much as possible since it loses about 90 frames for doing so. I'm not going to re-do that though unless someone else does it and can hex edit it in. Anyhow I think the other 5 stages are near enough optmized espeacially the first one. If I can just somehow avoid becoming another morgue TASer on the Labarinth stages.
Posted: 8/8/2006 2:11 AM
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xebra
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AKA wrote:
I'm now at the cursed part of the game, but I've always been curious to know what you meant by You also missed a minor collision/boost in Labyrinth 1, though by itself it's not enough to improve the clock. The other levels use paths better than anything I have knowledge of. Obviously it won't break 40 seconds lowering the ingame clock is a rare thing in Sonic these days, but if it gains a frame I want to know. My only guess was that it part of a corner that pushes sonic down the way or is it something else.
At the beginning of Labyrinth 1, at the first place where you enter water, there is a switch you have to hit just before a gate that is blocking you. While the gate is rising, if you jump into it just right, the game will boost you ahead. I think this can save 10-15 frames tops, if even that. Good luck!
Posted: 8/8/2006 5:54 AM
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pirate_sephiroth
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xebra wrote:
At the beginning of Labyrinth 1...
It's written like this: LABARINTH.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 8/8/2006 6:00 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Srrrzzzly?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 8/8/2006 9:05 AM
(Edited: 8/8/2006 10:25 AM)
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Mitjitsu
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Posted: 8/8/2006 9:23 AM
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Mitjitsu
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AKA wrote:
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
xebra wrote:
At the beginning of Labyrinth 1...
It's written like this: LABARINTH.
Actually Xebra was right and you were wrong and so am I. Although I've always questioned why the Sega translators spelt it as "Labyrinth" as opossed to "Labarinth".
EDIT:
xebra wrote:
At the beginning of Labyrinth 1, at the first place where you enter water, there is a switch you have to hit just before a gate that is blocking you. While the gate is rising, if you jump into it just right, the game will boost you ahead. I think this can save 10-15 frames tops, if even that. Good luck!
The boost seems non existent can you show me or is there a WIP you have of it.
Posted: 8/8/2006 9:41 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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AKA wrote:
Actually Xebra was right and you were wrong and so am I. Although I've always questioned why the Sega translators spelt it as "Labyrinth" as opossed to "Labarinth".
Because that's the current correct spelling?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 8/8/2006 2:12 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Because that's the current correct spelling?
That's what they want you to believe.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
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