Nice run Catastrophe. And given a choice, I would have preferred KUTAN, as this run wasn't entirely for speed, but to show off the glitches of the game.
And how would you define 100%?
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Thank you. I was trying for speed though. It just happens that someone started another run while mine was in progress, finished before I did, and did it faster. x_x
kwinse wrote:
And how would you define 100%?
All characters, 253 items, steal the 254th during the final battle, all espers besides Odin and Ragnarok, and all character enhancing side-quests done. And of course, all of the above done correctly. A 100% run sort of loses its value if I obtain the Paladin Shld with the Sketch Glitch. I'm supposed to get Locke, drag him to Narshe, and deal with the Cursed Shld as I do other quests so that I don't waste time uncursing it. Likewise, my Illuminas should come from the Colliseum only and there should only be one of those, too. Things I wouldn't have to do: mail the wounded soldier's letters, get rages, get lores, get dances, learn spells, save cid (though I would), fight Sigfried in the Colliseum, acquire more than 1 of any item, or encounter every monster.
I would have intrest in a 100% run, but how long do you think it would take? Would it even get accepted here?
Also I do not suppose a "clean" run considers Joker-doom, a dirty glitch does it? Just as that would, in theory at least, make me further want to watch it.
I would have intrest in a 100% run, but how long do you think it would take? Would it even get accepted here?
Also I do not suppose a "clean" run considers Joker-doom, a dirty glitch does it? Just as that would, in theory at least, make me further want to watch it.
Second that... at face value, it would seem very interesting as to how you'd handle using a group of weaklings (one equipped with the cursed shield, to boot) fighting the 8 dragons without joker-doom.
In practice, it might suck. :(
I think it would be good, though. Some people can watch eight hours of football on thanksgiving. This 100% run would have to be as interesting as that, at least.
Some people can watch eight hours of football on thanksgiving.
I do this every sunday >.<
I would really like to see a 100% or a clean run, or ANY KIND OF RUN ON THIS GAME :D
Already the current run is awesome, any other kind of run on this game will be a gift to every ppl that was TAS :)
Eh... has anyone else been able to watch the completed movie from start to finish, without savestates? I keep getting the same desync near the end of the FC. Celes uses a warp stone, Relm smacks the Naughty, Sabin does a blitz, everybody dies.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
A 100% would pretty much have to be episodic. Take an 8 hour movie, chop it up into 24 20-minute episodes, and call it a 'season'. Show/make one new episode per week and take half a year doing it. x_x Technically, you could concatenate all of the episodes and submit a 6MB .smv file...
In a 100% run I might want to use all of the tricks once just to show them off. I'm thinking of 777 on the IAF, but not Ultros4 or the Air Force, and never anywhere else for the rest of the game. All of the bosses should be fought honorably, at least. I could try different strategies where they won't slow me down too much. That way Offering+Fixed Dice, Quick+Meteor, and series of desperation moves don't get worn out. (Or, different from the 100% run, if everyone really really hates Setzer now, I could do the Airship Glitch and turn Setzer in Kurin! Everyone except Terra, Locke, and Mog are skippable. You will have to take Kutan, Kumama, and Kirin in the WOR. You don't need Setzer for 100%.)
I've been playing around with 6j trying to find something new and exploitable. So far I can crash the game with bad sprite data immediately after reaching Figaro castle! (Equip an Ether, punch a Leafer, BOOM!) Now all I have to do is figure out if I can garble any useful memory addresses and then find a way to recover after. I'm trying to get a Moogle Charm equipped during the first half hour. That would help the speed/running so much!
Dromiceius wrote:
Eh... has anyone else been able to watch the completed movie from start to finish, without savestates? I keep getting the same desync near the end of the FC. Celes uses a warp stone, Relm smacks the Naughty, Sabin does a blitz, everybody dies.
Celes (Kutan) should be using a Flame Shld. If you don't have any Flame Shlds then you might be using v1.1. I tested watching the movie without save states in snes9x v9 and the Sketch Glitch did record and playback correctly for me.
Celes (Kutan) should be using a Flame Shld. If you don't have any Flame Shlds then you might be using v1.1. I tested watching the movie without save states in snes9x v9 and the Sketch Glitch did record and playback correctly for me.
Ah. Of course. Wrong version. My bad.
In a 100% run I might want to use all of the tricks once just to show them off. I'm thinking of 777 on the IAF, but not Ultros4 or the Air Force, and never anywhere else for the rest of the game. All of the bosses should be fought honorably, at least. I could try different strategies where they won't slow me down too much. That way Offering+Fixed Dice, Quick+Meteor, and series of desperation moves don't get worn out. (Or, different from the 100% run, if everyone really really hates Setzer now, I could do the Airship Glitch and turn Setzer in Kurin! Everyone except Terra, Locke, and Mog are skippable. You will have to take Kutan, Kumama, and Kirin in the WOR. You don't need Setzer for 100%.)
Setzer is still cool... misplaced moogles are cooler, though.
I think a fun run would be a minimum-experience run. It could be fully glitched but beat the game with mostly level 6 characters. It wouldn't cost that much time at all compared to the existing run. It may not deviate enough from the normal run to merit publication, though.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
FreshFeeling wrote:
I think a fun run would be a minimum-experience run. It could be fully glitched but beat the game with mostly level 6 characters. It wouldn't cost that much time at all compared to the existing run. It may not deviate enough from the normal run to merit publication, though.
Unless I beat the existing minimum run's time. Level 6 is the traditional LLG but that requires hanging around on the Veldt for a month to learn AP without earning XP. I could keep it under lvl 10 by getting my AP on the FC and using a consistent party. That's sort of what I already do, minus 5 levels, which probably won't affect much. At worst I'll need one extra desperation move to kill certain bosses, but it'll look cooler and all of the overhead of doing in a DA is in waiting 28 seconds for them to appear. And just think of how much time I wasted on Mt. Koltz and around Narshe gaining a little XP. I shouldn't have bothered. I can manipulate status attacks and killing a boss with one more hit is faster than grappling with a bunch of stupid enemies to gain two levels. If I can beat Number 128, I can beat anything. (Setzer! Help! I'm pincered by three robots who are all triple my level!)
I'm still hoping that FF6j (SNES) turns up some rediculous glitch. Being able to put the Moogle Charm on anyone is such a big help! Unfortunately I have no idea how to get one besides the only one. Not even the sketch glitch can give you one and that glitch doesn't work anyway. There are a few places in the game where, if I could walk through walls, I could travel between the WOB and the WOR. I'm trying to find more NPCs that I can pass through. (Sneaking into Umaro's cave is one of those points. I wish: sneak in, exit into WOR Narshe, pickup Mog and the MC.)
I'm still hoping that FF6j (SNES) turns up some rediculous glitch. Being able to put the Moogle Charm on anyone is such a big help! Unfortunately I have no idea how to get one besides the only one. Not even the sketch glitch can give you one and that glitch doesn't work anyway. There are a few places in the game where, if I could walk through walls, I could travel between the WOB and the WOR. I'm trying to find more NPCs that I can pass through. (Sneaking into Umaro's cave is one of those points. I wish: sneak in, exit into WOR Narshe, pickup Mog and the MC.)
The desert fills with clocks and locke somehow produces an atma weapon, but it takes something really bizarre to make Edgar freak out... something like... fire 1.
Heh...
I've been messing with the equip anything glitch. Nothing particularly good happened. But I'm wondering, what happens if you do a desperation attack while holding two hi-potions, or maybe Soft? I don't know the address to watch.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Dromiceius wrote:
The desert fills with clocks and locke somehow produces an atma weapon, but it takes something really bizarre to make Edgar freak out... something like... fire 1.
Yup, seen that one. Did you see the one where the attacker spins like Setzer, turns into esper-Terra, attacks with a sword, and reverts? That's item 125. Item 113 does a suplex. I'd love to work in a suplex on Kefka. That'd be my screenshot: angel-Kefka upside-down.
I tested all 255 items in Locke's left hand (minus the weapons of course). Not many items do something different in Locke's right hand but I tested a bunch of those too. Item 253 had a pretty crazy effect that was never consistent. The list of dangerous items is: 159, 160, 165 (I forget why the emphasis), 167, 173, 193, 199, 202, 203, 205, 206, 214, 217, 220, 221, 223, 224, 235, 241, 243, 246, 247, 248, and 250. I did all of my tests against mould 0 (Leafer). That mould means certain doom when used with the sketch glitch. So even though the sketch glitch can't happen I should probably test against different formations just to make sure there isn't a magic formation, like 6, that produces the perfect effect. Item 159 created the problem where the camera would not follow me when I entered a map. That's one of the classic effects of the sketch glitch so I was encouraged by that. I just need something big enough to blast more memory.
erokky wrote:
I have a feeling that Marvel/RunningShoes (along with one Earrings) might've been faster against Goddess.
Live math example! Not even I know the outcome as I type this!
-Goddess HP: 44000
-Edgar must go first and use the debilitator.
-Edgar and Kutan will alternate turns after that but Edgar may get an extra turn over Kutan either due to the +7 speed of the Illumina or because Goddess stalls Kutan without stalling Edgar. For the sake of this example assume that neither character gets two full moves ahead of the other.
- Kutan can deal 3712 damage per round.
- Edgar can deal 4604 damage per round with no enhancements.
- Edgar can deal 5755 damage per round with one Earring.
- Edgar can deal 6906 damage per round with a double boost.
- Characters with haste take turns about 33% faster.
Assuming the Goddess just doesn't do anything:
Kutan = 3712 damage/round
Boosted Edgar = 6906 damage/round
Combined = 10808 damage/round for 4.5 rounds (and either character can be the .5)
Hasted Edgar = 5755 damage/round * 133% = 7481 damage/round
Combined = 11193 damage/round = 4 rounds!
I can't remember if I remembered to manipulate this or not, but Edgar should never be 'queued' while the Goddess attacks. If I do that, and if I hold Kutan back a second or two in order to queue up the Goddess, then I think I could get the same 4 rounds with either set of equipment. (NO Whelk! It's not your turn yet!) Still, I might as well use the haste strategy since I'll have to manipulate less. Or would I have to manipulate more counterattacks from the Goddess? But then again I might have to test it. Extra Fire3 animations might negate the difference.
Against the Tentacles there might be mutiple enemy moves to take into account. But, against the Tentacles, haste = immunity to all their stuff. BUT, I've already got a dozen Paladin Shlds anyway, which also = immunity to all their stuff PLUS Bio. BUT next time I'll have Celes with an Illumina. If Edgar weakens Mr. 7000 and a rediculously boosted Celes can do just 3k MT (easy) then it could be over after one round. (In which case Celes would then fight the Goddess with Edgar...)
I made an analysis AVI of your whole run. It's 500 MB so I'm not just going to put it up, I'll send it to people who ask on IRC. If there's demand, I might put it on a file sharing site (they all suck if you ask me). But it shows a possible flaw in your Goddess battle.
Plus it's an AVI of the whole run...
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
You encoded it! And added commentary? Wow! How long did that take? I was going to do something JXQ style myself but I was still in the planning phase of doing that. You know, 4 hour movie, what am I going to say, and what is interesting. Right now I'm 30% for improving this run and 70% for moving on to another game. My commentary was going to tell me how worthwhile an improvement would be. Heheheh. Now I guess you can tell me unless you forget to say something that I already know. :) (That sentence sounds funny.)
Although I've been going on and on about the GBA remake in this thread for most of a year before it came out, it doesn't look very promising for a TAS. I don't have it and I can't test on it but right away it looks like every major and minor loophole has been closed. They even took away Gau's Nightshade rage! There is pretty much no way to do a Celes-Edgar-Setzer challenge anymore, not even with excessive leveling. Manipulating a 777 is probably the only trick I have left and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they fixed muddle-doom and added a bunch of new formations to the anti-777 list. Ugh. If the Fixed Dice are compatable with the Merit Award then I'd suggest Fixed Dice + Force Shld + Offering (no effect on the dice!) + any smart relic choice. Gau probably does alot of damage in the WOB. I think Celes and Terra require too many levels and AP (for a speedrun), although I'd probably still use them. Shadow would win with the throw command whenever he's around. If they jiggle the RNG around a little bit then maybe I'll be able to get legit Flame Shlds from the Balloon monsters in Thamasa. That'd be sweet. But the only way I'd ever want to run the GBA version now is if there is either crazy high demand for a run of that version, or if the random encounters suddenly become as manipulatable as they are in DW1. I wish.
I haven't found any early-game exploits on FF6j and I don't think I ever will. A lot of items give rediculous stats when equipped in the wrong spot and that should help with fights. For example I think the Chain Saw is one of the few items that gives a perfect +255 magic power. Maxed magic power plus some broken fire rods, which already ignore defense, means one toasty enemy party. All that combined with the ability to have all three parties wear the Moogle Charm in Kekfa's Tower is probably more of an improvement than anything I could squeeze out of the Sketch Glitch. I just don't like playing RPGs in Japanese. I do actually need to read some of the text.
Your statement suggests you havn't actually watched the AVI. There's no JXQ style commentary; god knows I don't have a good public speaking voice. No, this is my AVI information overlay program discussed earlier. Took about 8 hours to make, requiring my attention for no more than about 5 minutes.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
DeHackEd wrote:
Your statement suggests you havn't actually watched the AVI. There's no JXQ style commentary; god knows I don't have a good public speaking voice. No, this is my AVI information overlay program discussed earlier. Took about 8 hours to make, requiring my attention for no more than about 5 minutes.
I wrote my post while it was downloading! It took a few hours (so I said thanks) and I watched it immediately. Of course I watched it!
I found the mistake. Kutan didn't have to use his last Flame Shld. He could've passed his turn to Edgar and the Goddess would've died anyway.
Your random encounter counter showed me something strange in Kefka's Tower. At about 3:38:30 watch Edgar walk thru the dragon's room and the room after it. The counter jumps from 6 to 29 and 9 to 31. When Setzer reaches the other room-behind-the-other-Dragon's room the REC does something similar again (6->32). I wonder what's going on there? Could I switch groups, take a step in that room, delay the encounter, and switch back to a group in hostile teritory? That's strange because I remember being able to fight Dark Forces in those back rooms. So it's not like there are no encounters there. And if those rooms were void of encounters then the REC wouldn't decrement.
This one is also a little strange. Fast foward to the room that looks like the entrance to the Imperial Castle. That's the room where the REC does not decrement. Now wait until the three groups start hitting the series of switches. At about 4:02:30 Setzer will cause the counter to jump from 57 to 14! That's bad.
WOR = awesome. If I do a run of the GBA game you can look foward to the new dash button, clever tactics, and turbo-A (dialog). The dash button might make more clipping glitches available; hopefully one during the Narshe battle. The dash button could be what saves this game. Fighting bosses with damage takes time and being prepared takes even more time. But if dash speed cancels everything out then it's all good. :) Kutan is still in the GBA version but now I'll actually need Celes to actually do something in battle. They didn't fix every bug - they just fixed everything that was even slightly useful for a speedrun. Once this game comes out in February I hope I discover something awesome like the Sprint Shoes near Arvis' house being moved one tile to the left. I wish. Would be nice.
