Post subject: [[Tool-assisted speedrun]] improvement drive
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
For a while now, I've been making a lot of edits to the Speedrun article on Wikipedia. It's really large and informative already, so I consider it nearing to completion. Since tool-assisted speedruns are so important in the speedrun society, it was decided (not by me, although I agree with it) that it should have its own article and that the speedrun article should contain a summary of that article. For a long time, the speedrun article had an elaborate small summary of what tool-assistance is all about, but now it is moved into its own article. So now might be a good time to ask this community to help me improve this article to a good status. If you would like to help out, simply check out the article and start writing, whether you have an account or not! Some things that I think should be in it:
  • An elaborate history section that starts with early Doom "tools-assisted speedrunning" or "built demos" and ends with the current state of the community which is mainly about playing with emulators.
  • Information about why and how these movies are being produced, similar to the information page on Bisqwit's wiki (although it should not copy anything from there without permission); while maintaining a NPOV attitude, of course, since I'd hate to see this article reduced into an outlet for propaganda
  • Information about why tool-assisted speedruns are sometimes regarded as controversial
Of course, we've got plenty of material to illustrate the article with, as well as many graphics of techniques and glitches that we can use, like the BisqBot graphic that is up. I hope that you'll come around and fix the article up with me, since right now it's very basic and I'm not sure if I'll have that much time to do it all by myself. And, afterall, collaboration is fun. Be sure to cite your sources. PS: the Speedrun article could also use some improvement, especially in some smaller areas (Super Mario series, Half-life, Mega Man series), since it's far from perfect yet. But that's less important right now, I believe.
Player (206)
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...It's good enough. Just leave it.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
...It's good enough. Just leave it.
I don't think it is. It's very small right now and only outlines the basics of tool-assisted speedrunning. It makes no mention of some very important aspects of the phenomenon and doesn't portray its significance (proved by, for example, the interviews Bisqwit and Phil have done for game magazines, and the attention the Zelda tool-assisted speedrun got when it was published on Slashdot).
Player (206)
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Does it need to?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
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I wouldn't give bisqbot so much attention on that page, because i've seen people think these runs are entirely made by robots, and if they go to the page and see that screenshot first, they will burn into their minds that these runs are made by robots. And we don't want that.
Player (224)
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FODA wrote:
I wouldn't give bisqbot so much attention on that page, because i've seen people think these runs are entirely made by robots, and if they go to the page and see that screenshot first, they will burn into their minds that these runs are made by robots. And we don't want that.
So wouldn't it be good to tell BisqBot is used for like 3 movies and even they aren't made by only robots?
<adelikat> I've been quoted with worse
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
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Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
You mean to tell me real people make these movies? I thought you guys hook up these emulators that do everything and you just make an AVI out of it.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Former player
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Wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to 'speed run' as two words?
Post subject: Re: [[Tool-assisted speedrun]] improvement drive
Editor, Active player (297)
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Omega wrote:
while maintaining a NPOV attitude, of course, since I'd hate to see this article reduced into an outlet for propaganda
That's why I don't think I can contribute in the article majorly. I'm too biased :)
Player (206)
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Non-point-of-view is impossible, so you may as well tell yours!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Non-point-of-view is impossible
I guess that's why the acronym stands for "neutral point of view"
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Player (206)
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Curse those neutrals and their neutral plot to spread neutrality!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
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I think a good example of something to add to the page would be other names Tool-assisted Speedrunning has been known by. I would add it myself if I wasn't at work.
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I think it might be good to add a discussion on luck manipulation. It would be interesting to many that Dragon Warrior or Final Fantasy can also be the subject of a TAS.
Post subject: Re: [[Tool-assisted speedrun]] improvement drive
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bisqwit wrote:
Omega wrote:
while maintaining a NPOV attitude, of course, since I'd hate to see this article reduced into an outlet for propaganda
That's why I don't think I can contribute in the article majorly. I'm too biased :)
Actually, even if you don't contribute, the text that has been written on your wiki is already pretty useful. And to be honest, it's usually pretty encyclopedic as well, even though it doesn't have to be. Gigafrost: yeah, I think that it should be mentioned how it used to be called a "timeattack", and just maybe there might be a possibility of mentioning how a different community prefers to call it a "cyborg run" (in the upcoming "controversy" section, maybe). That's a good idea. TheAxeMan: that's also a good idea. I'm not sure exactly how, though. I'm thinking in the form of a glossary. Bladegash: I'm not sure whether it should be "speed run" or "speedrun". The latter is the dominant terminology, although the former may be more correct in a sense. I'd rather use the most-used version, though.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bladegash wrote:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=speedrun&word2=%22speed+run%22
Hmm, well, that's true. It's strange, though, since I pretty much always see "speedrun" used on SDA. And here on NESVideos, too. In fact, pretty much every official documentation that I've seen uses this variant, except for the Internet Archive repository. Maybe it should be changed to "speed run", I'm not sure. That would make our runs "tool-assisted speed runs", not exactly too charming, in my opinion. Whatever is more correct, I guess, but I'm going to wait for a while before renaming the articles.
Post subject: Re: [[Tool-assisted speedrun]] improvement drive
Editor, Active player (297)
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Omega wrote:
Actually, even if you don't contribute, the text that has been written on your wiki is already pretty useful. And to be honest, it's usually pretty encyclopedic as well, even though it doesn't have to be.
Okay. Nice to be of help :)
Former player
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The advantage of "speed run" over "speedrun" is it makes a bad-ass acronym: Tool Assisted Speed Run = TASR which looks like "Taser."
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Yeah right, taser. Designed to shock.™
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 12/17/2004
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feitclub wrote:
The advantage of "speed run" over "speedrun" is it makes a bad-ass acronym: Tool Assisted Speed Run = TASR which looks like "Taser."
Tool Assisted Speed Emulation Run ... TASER duck and run ... cu Fabian
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
By the way, [[Speedrun]] has been promoted to good article. That's pretty great! It's not a featured article yet, but I think it'll become that in due time. It still needs a lot of work, though. Especially the Super Mario and Mega Man sections.
Former player
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Location: Heather's imagination
Omega wrote:
By the way, [[Speedrun]] has been promoted to good article. That's pretty great!
You share company with [[List of Mega Man weapons]] so I would not rejoyce. As for how that article was added to this list, I pretend not to understand any Wikipedia.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Player (206)
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What's wrong with List of Mega Man weapons?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
JXQ
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Does anyone else think this article incorrectly portrays the way these runs are made? We start with a picture of Bisqbot, a "robot designed to aid the creation of tool-assisted speedruns". If anything I think this should be toward the end of the article, following chronological history of the various tools that are used. Bisqbot has been used in three runs, and a handful of other TAS's here have used bots. A better introductory picture would be from Morimoto's SMB3 run, like a normal screenshot. One who reads this article could easily fall down the slippery slope and think we use robots to do most or all of our optimizing.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)