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adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
yeah you would need all the magic container but only because it requires 120 magic at low levels. getting the containers would be much quicker than leveling your magic to level 8. also i forgot that you would still need the boots in order to get the flute. but still this would be an incredible run!
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
Also, RE: Great Palace, there is a route that, while slower than the route in the current time attack, doesn't require the use of Fairy. So if worse came to worst in the Great Palace, you could always go the more "traditional" route through it (Though it doesn't sound like this would be a problem in a glitched run). Also, he would need to grab the Magic Containers anyway, because if memory serves, having all the containers is the requirement for getting Thunder (Every spell except Shield has a requirement, be it obtaining an item or having a certain number of Magic Containers; in addition, you need to have enough Magic Containers to be able to use the spell at whatever Magic level you're at [Not an issue for Thunder]). And he would need to level his Magic a certain amount as well, to lower the requirements for Fairy. I know it's minimized at Level 5; I'm not sure how much lower than that you can go, however (Not to mention that Jump and Thunder aren't minimized until Level 8...unless the requirements are different in the Japanese version, Thunder even at Level 7 takes 100. This would mean that at a lower magic level you would have to either coordinate more magic pickups, find an alternate route through the Great Palace [Because you won't have enough magic to Fairy AND Thunder on the same life], or die intentionally)
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
The no-fairy route in the Great Palace is, off the top of my head, Left, Right, Right, Left, Right, Down, based on where the path splits (Down refers to the hole you drop through).
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
I seem to remember it being left, then just a bunch of rights and down, though this may A. Not be the fastest route and B. I could be remembering the route wrong, as it's been a year or two since I went through it.
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Thunder even at Level 7 takes 100. This would mean that at a lower magic level you would have to either coordinate more magic pickups, find an alternate route through the Great Palace [Because you won't have enough magic to Fairy AND Thunder on the same life], or die intentionally) there are several red magic container (which refill your magic completely) throughout the palace, most notably there is one in the screen right before the thunderbird. having enough magic in the great palace wont be a problem. Still, finding quick ways to level up your magic at least a little bit would be necessary
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
I thought those were random, much like the statues at the beginning of the palaces (Though in a movie such as this, it shouldn't be a problem..I've really gotta remember to not think about things in the traditional way when discussing these videos [As when playing through the game without emulator assistance, the risk of uncovering a red Bird-thing, whatever they're called, is generally too great to justify going for the red jar]). Just played through the Great Palace by the way...the traditional route (Or at least my route) is left, several rights (Until you get to the elevator where there's a fairy on your right and a 1-up on your left), then left and down. From there, the route is the same as the time attack (Right and down).
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
Joined: 10/24/2004
Posts: 60
Location: Quebec
Hum, for seeing the video, you ust have the new version of famtasia AND the nes rom, not the famicom disk system one
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
blitzag wrote:
Hum, for seeing the video, you ust have the new version of famtasia AND the nes rom, not the famicom disk system one
That explains it.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Joined: 12/5/2004
Posts: 60
Randomly, has anyone working on either version of the game found out anything that would help someone trying to speedrun the game on a console? Specifically (And this is a long shot, because I believe this section is avoided altogether in the timeattack), I'm wondering if there's a way to consistently make one blue HawkKnight in particular jump toward me (The one where you crouch down on the bricks and hit him as he jumps toward you). ALSO: Ferret Warlord and I were both technically correct in the Great Palace route; there are no path splits after several of the elevators--you have to go right (Which is why I remembered it as "a bunch of rights").
Emptyeye.com- Come for the music, stay for the blog.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Speaking of lazy, I guess I want to update on the possibility of skipping the fairy spell...no matter what I did, I couldn't cross the long lava room in Palace 6. I tried bouncing off enemies but that simply didn't work. The jump itself is simply much too long. Unless you can force yourself above the ceiling on that screen or there's some obscure way to bounce off enemies I hadn't thought of then you need fairy for that room.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3573)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
perhaps you could skip the palace all together, as in previous posts, there might be the possiblity of entering the great palace without completing the other palaces. i tried but my emulator freezes in death mountain so i havent been able to get far enough to try
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Quick question on the Dark Link fight: Was the loop you used to kill DL due to an "AI" loop or luck manipulation? (Not really sure if DL has an AI, that's why I'm asking)
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Zaku X wrote:
Quick question on the Dark Link fight: Was the loop you used to kill DL due to an "AI" loop or luck manipulation? (Not really sure if DL has an AI, that's why I'm asking)
Once he was trapped in the corner (the last 5 hits), he repeatedly did the same move as long as I struck him at the same moment each hit.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
OmegaFlareX wrote:
Bladegash wrote:
DSL/Cable modems aren't available in all areas.
Seriously. My new apartment is too far away from the nearest line relay to get DSL, and cable is $45 a month. Fuck that, I'd have to quit my job and be online 12 hours a day to justify paying that.
Hehe.. Funny.. I try somewhat to break my record of being online over 24 hours a day. Seems impossible to do. Does anyone know if there's a religion or anything which allowes more than 24 hours per day? A calendar or something. Hehe. Perhaps if I move through diffrent timezones while being online? That would be something. Then I could probably be online 24 hours in one hour? *drool* /me is getting insane.
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
I would think it'd be possible. Stay up near one of the poles and walk around the pole in whatever direction you want to go in. The closer you are to the poles the easier this is. Now the only problem is getting a connection there...
SWOOOOOOOM
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
An easier way to beat the record would probably to stay online during the whole day we change from winter time to summer time. Or if it's the other one, I can never remember. That'll net you a day of 25 hours.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
@Truncated - Hmm.. Didn't think of that. I've already done that. :D
Player (68)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Or you could move to Mars. That would give you about 40 more minutes per day. The latency could be an issue, though. (this thread is already way off topic, so don't point at me!)
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
Better to go to Venus, Then you'll have an extra 280 days in your day.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Post subject: I wonder if Newton had this much fun figuring it all out...
Joined: 5/17/2004
Posts: 106
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
As the local physics student, I feel compelled to chime in on this one and go all scientific on the discussion. First, the solution somewhat depends on what you mean by a day. If a day is one day-night cycle, just living at a pole is enough to lengthen it considerably - the poles spend half the year in darkness and half the year in light due to the earth's axis being inclined. Now, admittedly, there're short transitional periods around the equinoxes so you can't get a full year, but a day-night cycle still lasts 6 months if you play your cards right. It's notable that running around the pole won't help you at all, since the entire top 10% (approximating off the top of my head, here) of the planet spend some part of the year in complete night or day. 'course, with a faster vehicle than just your legs and a position closer to the equator you could spend an indefinite amount of time in day or night. However, this is a rather silly definition of day, since it makes the concept very subjective and quite prone to geographical variation. Typically, we just define a day is the time taken for one revolution of the earth, which is the same for everyone (well, everyone on earth, at least - but more on that later). You can therefore make the day longer by slowing down the earth's rotation. This is sadly not an easy thng to accomplish. The potential energy of the earth's rotation is given as
E_p = L^2 / ( 2 * m * r^2 )
where L is the Earth's angular momentum, given by
L = 2/5 * m * r^2 * w
W is the earth's angular velocity, which can be derived from the time of a single revolution as
w = 2 * pi / 85 823
85 823 is the number of seconds in a day. This gives us a final expression for the potential energy in the rotation as
E_p = 8/25 * pi * m * r^2 / 7365587329 = 2,606361399*10^30 J
with good values for m & r Now, assuming we're going to slow down the rotation from earth and not start slamming asteroids into the planet, something that would make living here uncomfortable, we're going to have to accomplish our task by discharging mass from the surface in the opposite direction to the rotation. For example, we could use the world's oceans as rocket propellant. So, let's say we make two large rockets on opposite sides of the globe, connect them to the nearest ocean and start blasting water out into space. Let's also say that we're shooting it away at the good, nippy and totally unrealistic speed of 3 000 m/s. If we had our rockets thus drain the world's oceans of all their water - 1,4 * 10^21 kg, all in all - and eject it into space, we would have spent 4,5 * 10^27 J slowing the earth down, according to the
E_k = 1/2 * m * v^2
formula for determining kinetic energy. Assuming all this energy went were it should, instead of generating heat by friction or somesuch (and ignoring the effect of changing the mass of the earth by removing all the water), we would then have created a change of 5% in the angular velocity of the earth - not much to brag about, really. We'd need our water rockets to fire at about 30 000 m/s to halve the rotational speed, and 60 000 m/s to stop it. There are other physically possible but more esoteric methods that can slow the rotation down. Special relativity has time dilation, which basically states that observed time slows down for things that have a high velocity - nearing the speed of light - compared to your own. You can also use an effect of general relativity that has time slow down when space-time is bent out of whack near strong gravitational sources, simply place the earth near a black hole or similar object and place yourself very far away from any such strong gravitational forces. Finally, quantum uncertainty allows you to be at multiple points in time with varying probability when at low energy levels, so freezing yourself to near absolute zero could concievably work as well. However, these methods are solutions that would only serve to make longer days for you and not the rest of the earth - indeed, one of them would probably destroy the planet - and thus I cannot recommend them. Edit: D'oh. Code tags didn't really work as intended, but I'm too lazy to fix it :p Also, I take no responsibility for embarassing calculatory errors. Those were all made by my evil twin.
Joined: 7/20/2004
Posts: 108
Fascinating. I remember when I first got internet access in the fall of '99 (yeah, I'm always late to the party) my time online one month was something like 240+ hours. All I did was chat on AIM and download roms and shit. All day. All night.
OmegaFlareX wrote:
My new apartment is too far away from the nearest line relay to get DSL, and cable is $45 a month. Fuck that, I'd have to quit my job and be online 12 hours a day to justify paying that.
Ironically, I now have cable. They advertised a really good introductory offer ($20/month for 6 months) and now I'll never be able to go back to dial-up. Words, eaten. Wallet after June, empty.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Thanks Xerophyte for that explenation. I feel all bludgeoned in my head now. You really over did it. :D OmegaFlareX - Good for you. Now you too are a high-speed addict. :D Welcome to the drug. BWAHAHAHHA!
Joined: 5/17/2004
Posts: 106
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Highness wrote:
I feel all bludgeoned in my head now. You really over did it.
Yay, mission accomplished! :D Sadly, I apparently had my general relativity hat on backwards when I wrote that - being near a strong source of gravity speeds up time for whatever is placed there instead of doing the opposite like I said. Err ... Oops. Also, to cease hijcacking for a second, I'd like to say that Adventure of Link & Link to the Past are my absolutele favorites in the series. I really enjoyed the runs made here so far - great job Boco & Arc! - and would cherish any improvements.
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
No, you had it right the first time. An observer orbiting the Earth will note that our surface clocks are running more slowly than his. A good way to remember this that doesn't directly involve any complex reasoning about relativity, time dilation, and frames of reference is to think of an extremal example, namely what a clock passing through the "surface" of a black hole would look like to an orbiting observer, if there were a way to see it. (Specifically that the image of the clock is frozen in time.)
Joined: 5/17/2004
Posts: 106
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Xebra: You're both right & wrong. The effects you mentioned (clocks in orbit, clocks at black holes) are present in special relativity and are caused by the relative speed of the clock compared to that of an observer causing time dilation. In general relativity, there is a separate effect that has mass stretch space-time so that time moves differently near it, regardless of relative veloctities. Me actually doing some reading before posting and not going from vague lecture memories says this causes time to slow near mass - so, yeah, I was right the first time. :p Since it should by now be clear that I'm embarrassingly bad at general relativity, I'll just [URL=http://fy.chalmers.se/~rico/spacetime2.html]link you[/URL] to someone who isn't for the details.
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