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Posted: 3/13/2004 7:00 AM
Post subject: Zelda 2 anyone?
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I have 2 questions for everyone. 1. Does anyone know the world record for Zelda 2? 2. Is anyone currently doing a Zelda 2 run? Ive been wanting to do a Zelda 2 TA for a long time, so Id like to use the world record as a benchmark. I already have a good idea of the route to take and the levels to reach, etc. Im just a little concerned that it will look a little suspicious running through the monster infested caves without the candle :p. Also, Ill have to be careful not to use the speed glitch that famtasia has with the game. Reminds me a lot of the BH in Quake, my fave.
Posted: 3/13/2004 5:44 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Hi Sleeper :) TwinGalaxies doesn't have a time for Zelda II listed. This faq though looks helpful: http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/file/zelda_ii_time_trial.txt.
THE BEST POSSIBLE TIME "IN THEORY" NOTE: I used an original NES cartridge version of "Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link" to conduct this theory and walkthrough. If you are using an emulator, your time results will vary, as some are slower or faster than the original cartridge. Before actually going through the game as fast as possible, I conducted a theory as to how fast Zelda 2 could possibly be finished, by timing each part of the game as I traveled along. Here were the time theories in mind: Start of game to the end of 1st Palace: 6 mins, 19 secs NOTES: Skipped SHIELD spell and 1st Life containers. End of 1st Palace to Start of 2nd Palace: 20 mins, 27 secs NOTES: Got 1st and 2nd Magic containers, 2nd life container, JUMP and LIFE spells, the HAMMER, as well as the FAIRY spell and an Extra Life 2nd Palace: 6 mins, 3 secs NOTES: Substituted 2 keys for FAIRY spells. Shaved time considerably. End of 2nd Palace to End of 3rd Palace: 7 mins, 39 secs NOTES: All stops done beforehand. Went straight to 3rd Palace. End of 3rd Palace to Start of Palace 4: 7 mins, 57 secs NOTES: Got REFLECT spell and 3rd Magic container. Palace 4: 8 mins, 4 secs NOTES: Substituted 2 keys for FAIRY spells. Died once, exited Palace after acquiring MAGIC BOOTS to replenish Magic. End of 4th Palace to End of Palace 5: 10 mins, 7 secs NOTES: Substituted 2 Keys for FAIRY spells. Spent extra time raising levels long neglected. Got 3rd Life Container and Extra Life. End of 5th Palace to Start of 6th Palace: 7 mins, 50 secs NOTES: Got SPELL spell, 4th Magic and Life containers, got MAGIC KEY, got THUNDER spell (Not recommended before the Cross). 6th Palace: 7 mins, 32 secs NOTES: Did not take shortcut. (explained later) End of 6th Palace to Start of 7th Palace: 10 mins, 12 secs NOTES: Spent extra time to raise levels in forest. Great Palace: 7 mins, 32 secs NOTES: None. Little to do during the goal at hand. Theoretical Time: 1 Hour, 39 Minutes, 38 Seconds I had 27 unintentional action sequences along the way. It takes, on average, 6 seconds to leave an action sequence without fighting monsters. So that said, if assuming I could avoid all unintentional action sequences, then: 6 secs x 27 = 162 seconds, = 3 minutes, 2 seconds shaved off the journey. Theoretical Time: 1 Hour, 36 Minutes, 36 Seconds Other factors to take into consideration is the effeciency of leveling up, which I failed to do during this first trial run. I have reason to believe I can beat this time if I knew what to level-up first.
I doubt that that is really the theoretical best time in the same sense that 5:08 is the theoretical best time for SMB.
Posted: 3/13/2004 7:13 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Thanks Arc, My runs gonna skip all the heart containers, shield spell, life spell, fire spell, candle, cross, upward thrust, etc, with 0 encounters. Leveling up will be done along the way + 6 autolevels for completing each palace. Gonna try for under 1 hour if possible.
Posted: 3/14/2004 12:39 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
http://www.zhq2.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=742 According to this topic in the ZHQ forums, the world record is 1:36:32, held by Mike Damiani.
Posted: 3/14/2004 1:19 AM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Fastest Completion (Saved File) 42:36 - Ryan Williamson
What does this mean?
Posted: 3/14/2004 1:28 AM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Thanks for the info Mike. Apparently, famtasia has another more serious problem with Zelda 2. Whenever Link tries to get on an elevator, famtasia pauses and a popup comes up saying "Unknown opcode FF at 06D6". This is a real obstacle since you need to use the elevators to get through the game. Right now Im trying to find a different version of the game. The first 5 min of the run was looking really good too. >_<
Posted: 3/14/2004 2:46 AM
Post subject: Re: Unknown opcode
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I don't think it's related to the elevator. I think it's because you just made a quicksave and loaded it too soon. It happens sometimes. Try loading a quicksave, then taking the pause off. If it doesn't work, stop the recording, put it on "play", create a quicksave when it's near your place and then load it to resume recording.
Posted: 3/14/2004 3:01 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
What does this mean? I think that means that he played the game again after beating it the first time. I haven't played this game recently, but if I remember correctly, by doing this, you start with everything at level 8, all the spells, and the upthrust and downthrust. Whenever Link tries to get on an elevator, famtasia pauses and a popup comes up saying "Unknown opcode FF at 06D6". That never happened to me, you must have a bad rom.
Posted: 3/14/2004 3:43 AM
Post subject: Zelda2 error
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I confirm, it happens here too. The ROM is supposed to be GoodNES verified.
Posted: 3/16/2004 11:02 AM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Ok I've found the bug.First make sure unsupported document opcode is checked.For this go to file ,property then check it.Second the real reason Y the game is freezing its cause you jump on the elevator just walk on it and the problem is resolved.
Posted: 4/3/2004 9:12 PM
Post subject: Legend of Zelda II - The Adventure of Link
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I'm going to run Link no Bouken, because the elevators work, unlike in Adventure of Link. The sound is messed up sometimes, but it's still very livable. Now.. obviously I'm going to max out Attack before touching Life or Magic, especially since the "lose uneven levels when you die" thing is invalidated by, you know, not dying. I can get maxed Attack by somewhere in the middle of Death Mountain without going out of the way. Then comes Magic in order to have lower costs for Fairy. But here's a descision that should be made very early in play: Should I get the Candle? It takes about a minute and a half longer to get the Candle, but it would make all of the caves so~o much easier to play through for me without rerecording 1800 times per room (to make it look like I can see perfectly). I think a game without the Candle would be harder to watch, too, because the viewers at home can't see what's going on in the caves. But without the Candle is much, much more impressive. The Cross is another matter entirely. I'm going to ditch the Cross entirely and use Spell to reveal invisible enemies. (as far as I know, Spell and all 4 Magic containers are needed to get Thunder (is this correct?), and if I get Spell I might as well get the Key) So, Candle or no Candle? And any suggestions on what people would like to see, or alternate paths through dungeons (other than Great Palace)?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/3/2004 9:34 PM
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Culden
Joined: 4/1/2004
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
I think you should get the candle, so we could see what goes on in the caves. I don't really find it impressive seeing someone doing misc jumps etc... in a place we can't see just cause a person memorized it IMO, but your the one making it, so do what you think is best mate. I am just excited to know that i will actually see zelda 2 gone through, i never seen the game played through before.
When scores are drawn, who will you die for?
Posted: 4/3/2004 10:55 PM
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kopernical
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Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
Maxed attack halfway through Death Mountain? Is this version significantly different than the US version because I don't see how that is even remotely possible. I had a look at this game before I knew about its problems in Famtasia and I had planned to get the candle. Not just because it makes it easier but killing those extra enemies is the only way to get Attack Level 4 by the end of Palace 1. I thought you just needed the eight magic containers to get the Thunder spell. I could be wrong, though. In any case I wouldn't think it would be all that difficult to avoid the invisible enemies with re-recording.
Posted: 4/3/2004 11:34 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
kopernical wrote:
Maxed attack halfway through Death Mountain? Is this version significantly different than the US version because I don't see how that is even remotely possible.
The Japanese version's levelling system is significantly different. Enemies give vey different experience points and every time you level up, you can level in ANY category. In essence, it's Link levelling and you choose which stat he gains, not the stat levelling. So there's no option to skip a level, and levels get increasingly hard to get. The first few levels are easy (I think it's something like 50, 100, 150, 300, 300, 700, 700), so maxing Attack early shouldn't take longer than that (It should be possible to actually have 8-3-1 or so by the Hammer if you get a few 200 or 50 P-bags from enemies). The drawback in the Japanese version is that if you ever get a Gamew Over, all of your levels reset to the lowest level you have. So if you have 8-3-1 and you die, you get 1-1-1. If you have 5-4-3 and you die, you get 3-3-3. In a Time Attack, of course, you never die, so the drawback disappears and you can minmax without penalty.
kopernical wrote:
I thought you just needed the eight magic containers to get the Thunder spell. I could be wrong, though.
If this is true, skipping New Kasuto for the Spell spell and Magic Key will shave considerable time. The Great Palace only needs 3-4 keys from other palaces and those locks can be circumvented easily with Fairy. I always thought you needed all of the magic containers and Spell.. but I guess I'm wrong. I'll just work up to that point and attempt to get Thunder, and if I can't with just the magic containers, I'll get Spell and the Magic Key.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/4/2004 1:53 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
If you're making a speed run for AoL, make sure you beat 1:36 because that's about what the world record is.
Posted: 4/4/2004 2:47 AM
Post subject: リンクの冒険
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
*copies latest LiveJournal post* Here're my times so far: 
Event Total time    Time elapsed  Event description

000	00:00:00.00	00:00:00.00	System reset!!
001	00:00:28.75	00:00:28.75	North Palace enter!!
002	00:00:58.05	00:00:29.30	Magic Container get!!
003	00:01:29.51	00:00:31.46	ATK->2, next level at 0100
004	00:01:39.05	00:00:09.54	Trophy get!!
005	00:02:20.50	00:00:41.45	Parapa load!!
006	00:03:53.57	00:01:33.07	ATK->3, next level at 0100
007	00:05:25.73	00:01:32.16	ATK->4, next level at 0300
008	00:05:43.31	00:00:17.74	Candle get!!	
009	00:05:58.84	00:00:15.53	ATK->5, next level at 0300
010	00:07:05.88	00:01:07.04	ATK->6, next level at 0300
011	00:07:30.18	00:00:24.30	Parapa win!!
012	00:07:36.22	00:00:06.04	ATK->7, next level at 0700
013	00:08:25.84	00:00:49.62	Ruto enter!!
This includes 34 seconds of load time that aren't in the US version and me being slow on the name entry screen. So as you can see, levelling takes about the same ammount of time as in the US version, but because you can choose what to level up, you can min-max. Hopefully I'll get enough EXP to get Magic to 5 or so during Midoro, so I can cast Fairy twice to avoid going out of the way for keys.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/4/2004 3:03 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
How can you be slow on the name entry screen when you can just slow the game down? Did you see how fast I entered my name in my Zelda speed run? Actually, an even faster way of passing that screen that only works in AoL and not LoZ is to turn on autofire and press start, and that somehow starts the game without having to enter a name.
Posted: 4/4/2004 4:07 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
By slow I mean I waste 11 seconds entering the name "BOCO" (that's including about 9 seconds of load time) instead of just choosing the AAA file (which is 1-1-1 with 000 deaths, so I could've just chosen it - as you say, turboed start - to amount to the same thing). I could always rerecord the thing and use the AAA file, but it's only 11 seconds, which you can just subtract from the total time. The Twin Galaxies rules say timing starts when you can first control the character (about 29 seconds into the video as it stands), so the name entry is meaningless anyway.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/4/2004 12:17 PM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
You only need eight magic containers to recieve thunder. Check out this site, might prove helpful: http://www.zelda.com/universe/index.html
Posted: 4/4/2004 4:54 PM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
You might want to try my route since it should be faster. I can show you my fmv if you want. I dont mind since I cant finish it anyway: 1. North Palace 2. Magic Container 1 3. Statue(Trophy) 4. Ruto Town(Jump Spell) 5. Ruto Cave 6. Bagu's House 7. Saria Town(Skip Life Spell) 8. Death Mountain(Hammer and Magic Container 2) 9. Medicine(Water of Life) 10. Mido Town(Fairy Spell and Downward Thrust) 11. Parapa Palace(Skip Candle) 12. Swamp Palace 13. Island Palace With this route, you should have the Hammer at around 7:00, Fairy Spell and Downward Thrust at 9:00-10:00. Also: 1. You can use the fairy spell instead of wasting time getting any of the keys. 2. You can use downward thrust to get past certain enemies without pausing, and finish the bosses faster. 3. You will have high levels by the time you start the first palace. I also recommend skipping the Candle since this is a time attack. 1:30 is a lot of time wasted. If someone else did the exact same run, but without getting the candle, they would beat your time by around 1:30. You should also skip the Cross. As for magic, you do need to collect all 4 magic containers to get Thunder. The only concern you should have is having enough magic left to cast jump after using thunder on Thunderbird(Angel). It takes a lot of time to beat it if you dont. For fairy spell, you can always get one of the enemies to drop a magic refill in the next screen with re-record. This is my strategy for AoL. You might want to change the strategy around a bit for LnB since it lets you level up ridiculously fast.
Posted: 4/4/2004 5:51 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
That route IS very much faster. EDIT: About 3 minutes and 18 seconds faster! And that's not counting time saved walking! But at a cost of about 700 EXP, which can hopefully be made up by the late statue-sealing. I would love to see your video. The only other Zelda 2 run I've seen is one VMV of a 100% completion run in an hour 50. I guess I'll also post my incomplete video somewhere, but not many people have the Japanese Zelda 2, so I don't know how much good it will do. Besides, this will give me a chance to clean up some things near the beginning. The main point of getting the Candle is for Death Mountain, and as you say, getting Fairy before doing Parapa is faster, so there's no reason to get the Candle except for Disvalley, at which point all the screens can be avoided by timing random battles. YAY REMAKING VIDEO~! Oh, is there a Heart Container limit for Downstab or Upthrust? And is there ever a situation where Jump can't be substituted for Upthrust (getting it would take about 30 seconds extra)? Also, what do you suggest about Maze Island? Should I grab the Magic Container, grab the Boots, grab the Child, get Reflect, kill Carock? Or is there a quicker way?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 4/4/2004 10:18 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
>Oh, is there a Heart Container limit for Downstab or Upthrust? And is >there ever a situation where Jump can't be substituted for Upthrust >(getting it would take about 30 seconds extra)? As I recall, the only requirement for getting the up and down stabs is the jump spell so you can get into the house. Downward thrust is a definite time saver, but Upward thrust is really useless. There are one or two keys in the game that require you to break blocks upward to get. However, there are still ways to get them without using up thrust, plus you are going to skip getting the keys anyways. >Also, what do you suggest about Maze Island? Should I grab the Magic >Container, grab the Boots, grab the Child, get Reflect, kill Carock? Or is >there a quicker way? You will need to grab all 4 magic containers anyways. Plus, you need to grab both the 3rd magic container and the Child before the old man forks over Reflect spell, which you need to kill the boss. You do need the boots to get to 5th Palace. Ill post my video in the Game Movie Making forum.
Posted: 4/4/2004 10:27 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
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Sleepz wrote:
I'll post my video in the Game Movie Making forum.
I think it belongs here, because it's a followup to the discussion of this game...
Posted: 4/4/2004 11:04 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
>I think it belongs here, because it's a followup to the discussion of this game... The post deals with my other video too.
Posted: 4/4/2004 11:30 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Famtasia v6 Tester supports the FDS wavetable correctly, but can't record ;_;
Sleepz wrote:
>Also, what do you suggest about Maze Island? Should I grab the Magic >Container, grab the Boots, grab the Child, get Reflect, kill Carock? Or is >there a quicker way? You will need to grab all 4 magic containers anyways. Plus, you need to grab both the 3rd magic container and the Child before the old man forks over Reflect spell, which you need to kill the boss. You do need the boots to get to 5th Palace.
It's that the Child is really far off of the path to the palace. The Magic Container is on the way there.. so if I just go to the Palace, get the Boots, get the Child on my way back to town, I think that's best. EDIT: For those of you who have the Zelda 2 FDS image, here is the video up to the 2nd Magic Container using the old path. PLEASE give comments and suggestions. I'm going to make multiple versions to increase efficiency, but I still want the first complete version to be entertaining. I'm thinking of never using the sword unless the hit connects (which should be easy), doing more aerial maneuvers and artful dodges (you can see a few - there are parts I have recorded that aren't in this that have better ones), leeching EXP by forcing P-bags to drop more often (all of the drops in the video you see here are natural, or leeched from potion drops (pots become bags with a frame or three different timing)), and attacking quicker by using rising instead of falling crouch-slashes for standing enemies (= about 2x attack speed). Any other suggestions or advice? Also, should I delete the default _AAA save to create a new save (wastes 11 seconds), or should I just use the _AAA save? Because that's outside the 'true time', I think it looks better with a name other than _AAA. Alternatively, a save file could be included with the FMV that has a blank BOCO file instead of the _AAA one... would that be better?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
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