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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:27 PM
Post subject: Wild Guns
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
I've been working some on a Wild Guns run, and so far I think it's looking pretty good. The goal is not to complete the game as fast as theoretically possible, since a run like that would get pretty boring because you would have no time to pick up bonuses or anything like that. If my run would only aim for time and not entertainment, I'm guessing it might be 5 seconds faster or so, so I don't think it's a huge deal. The run I'm making focuses on being entertaining while completing the game pretty fast without loosing entertainment. So far no there are no missed shots, even if some of them might look like it. Watch it at 6% speed and you'll see that all shots hit. ;) So far I'm about 18 seconds ahead of Nightcom's run, and my score is 15 860 higher, mainly because I destroy more things like tables and doors. This game can be played at HARD difficulty, but I have no idea what the differences are. I tried doing a run on HARD, but I didn't think it looked as entertaining as it did on NORMAL difficulty, so I think I'll stick with NORMAL. If anyone knows what the differences are, please let me know. Here is what I have done so far. Any thoughts or comments about the run so far? Or any interest at all? :)
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:41 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Is Nightcom's played on a HARD difficulty? If it is you should make it on HARD too.
Posted: 1/12/2006 4:44 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Guybrush wrote:
Is Nightcom's played on a HARD difficulty? If it is you should make it on HARD too.
No, his movie also plays on NORMAL difficulty.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:46 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
But it should be played on hard, right? Or is there a plublished movie of this already? I don't remember.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/12/2006 4:50 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
There is already a published movie played on normal skill, here: http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=188 If you think I should redo it and play on hard, I guess I could, but I still have no idea what differences that makes :) There are neither more or less enemies and I didn't notice that the enemies were any more difficut. But I guess I could make it on HARD, I just thought that since the current movie plays on NORMAL that this movie should too.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 4:52 PM
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Walker_Boh
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Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I don't know the game at all. I think I saw the movie once but that's it. I thought that all games should be played on hard if that was an option, but since it's already played on normal I guess it should be played on normal again.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 1/12/2006 4:56 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Yeah, I just don't want to get it rejected because it doesn't play on hard =/ But as you said Walker, since the previous movie plays on Normal this should probably do so too. Once again, if anyone knows what differences there are between normal and hard on this game, I would really like to know ;) There isn't any guide on GameFaqs that tells the differences... And don't worry if you haven't played the game, this game is really, really simple so you don't have to have played it to enjoy the movie. It's just your ordinary shooter. :)
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Posted: 1/12/2006 6:11 PM
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Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
I think you should definitely do it on hard mode, even if you have to restart. The problem with published normal mode runs is this: what if someone makes a hard mode run that's only slightly slower (due to being harder)? Should a slower run be able to obsolete a faster run just because of the level of difficulty? The Wild Guns video has been bugging me for AGES because of this.
Posted: 1/12/2006 6:12 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I would say play on the hardest level anyway unless it's extremely boring.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/12/2006 6:22 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Allrighty, I'll redo it and make a hard mode run then. I'll get a new WIP up as soon as I can.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 7:56 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Allright, first WIP for hard mode is now done. So far only first level is completed. Currently 148 frames faster than Nightcom and 4980 higher score... Most time that was saved in the previous movie was on the third boss, so don't expect any major improvements in time for the first levels. :) Here's the movie My score on hard mode was a little lower than on normal, but timewise they were pretty much equivalent, I think this hard mode run is about 20 frames slower.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:09 PM
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Brushy
Former player
Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
This is quite fun to watch. Good job Randil! Looking forward seeing the whole run, but don't get too carried away with this because you still have the SML2 run ;) PS. The ROM used is Wild Guns (U)
Posted: 1/12/2006 8:24 PM
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atro_city
Active player (256)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Haven't watched it yet, but I have a question. Have you given thought to the order of levels to do in order to get Vulcan guns at the most opportune times? I remember watching the published run and thinking that surely the Vulcans can be gotten for some of the bigger (and longer to defeat) bosses.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 1/12/2006 8:34 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
atro city wrote:
Have you given thought to the order of levels to do in order to get Vulcan guns at the most opportune times? I remember watching the published run and thinking that surely the Vulcans can be gotten for some of the bigger (and longer to defeat) bosses.
Actually, I haven't given that much thought. Any suggestions about what order I should play the levels? As I see it, a problem would be that if I'm going to save up the Vulcan for a specific boss, in the middle of a stage I might have to stop killing enemies at a point, because the next enemy I kill gives me the vulcan gun which I want to save for the boss. You could also look at it the other way, if I get the vulcan in the middle of stage, I can take out the enemies a lot faster, so the question is if it's really that much faster to make sure you get it for a boss. For those who don't know, the Vulcan weapon appears when your vulcan meter is maxed, and the vulcan meter goes up as you kill enemies. As you fire the Vulcan, the vulcanmeter goes down. Oh yeah, the vulcan gun is REALLY strong :) So basically I'm open for suggestions on a new route, but unless someone knows of a faster route, I'm thinking of sticking with Nightcom's.
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Posted: 1/12/2006 8:39 PM
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atro_city
Active player (256)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Actually, the Vulcan meter depletes as time passes, not when you fire it. I also remember thinking of slightly better use of dynamite than how Nightcom used it. I'll go watch the published run again (and yours) to see if I can find a better route.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 1/12/2006 8:43 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
atro city wrote:
Actually, the Vulcan meter depletes as time passes, not when you fire it.
Hehe, I guess I just fired too much once I got the vulcan that I thought that ;) Thanks for the correction. By the way, big thanks for helping out! :)
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Posted: 1/12/2006 10:08 PM
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atro_city
Active player (256)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Hey, no problem. After some observation, I found that the Vulcan meter actually rises as you shoot down enemy bullets, not as you kill enemies. That means that not only do you have reasonable control over the Vulcan meter, but you can get it more often than Nightcom did. Also, now I think the route Nightcom used actually is the fastest. I figure that if you play your cards right, you can get the Vulcan Gun at the following points: The boss of the first scene in Desolation Canyon (or whatever it's called). Possibly the first boss of Ammunition Depot. You can use the gun to the right to charge up, as well as the boss. If you can't get it charged, you can always charge it up for the one below. The Blue Orb boss. It fires bullets at you, so you can hit the bullets and hit the boss at the same time. The scorpion-like boss. It also fires many bullets that you can use to charge up your meter. Right before the last part of the armored train (the red part). If you're fast enough, you might even be able to use it against the jetpack guy, too. Probably not possible, but the twin robots at the beginning of the final stage fire 3 bullets from each arm. 12 bullets at a time might allow you to get the Vulcan Gun fast enough to smoke them. Either the boss right before the final boss, or the final boss. Most likely the former though, since it fires bullets like there's no tomorrow. To accomplish this, you would have to leave some bullet-crazy enemies alive so you can use them to charge up. Here would be some good examples: The very first boss, although you might not need to. The first boss at Desolation Canyon. The gun at the right on the first scene of Ammunition Depot. The first boss of Ammunition Depot. The blimps at the first scene of the stage where miners ride up in carts and throw dynamite at you. The second boss of Ammunition Depot. Instead of using a bomb like Nightcom does, get the Grenade Launcher and blast the main part until the two arms fire, then you can charge up with them. The scorpion-like boss. The Gatling guns on the right on Armored Train. The twin robots at the final stage. The guys in the second scene who run up and fire a bunch of bullets down a narrow column. The boss before the final boss. Oh, and one more thing. Save the bombs for the blue-shirted guys only. The one in the first stage requires one, the next one two, and the last one two. I don't remember how many bombs you can get in the game, but that should cover them as long as you don't use them on anything else. Wow, that's a long post. Sorry about that. I just hope you find it helpful.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:22 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Yeah, that was a long post! ;) Well thanks, that should prove really helpful. I didn't know that the vulcan meter rises as you shoot down enemy bullets, as you said, that way it should be a lot easier to manipulate when to get the vulcan. You said that it could be possible to get the vulcan on the very first boss... Do you think I should replay that stage? I find it pretty hard to believe that getting the vulcan this early could save any time. I shoot down every enemyshot that is fired at me, and my vulcan meter is only about 5% full at the boss. As I see it, the only way to get the vulcan this early would be to let enemies live longer than necessary, in order for them to fire at me. Though every enemy I let live will waste some time... Haha, there seem to be a lot more strategy behind this run than I first thought! ;) One good thing I noticed in my run was that even though the vulcan meter is only about 5% full when I have killed off the first boss, it's about 3 times fuller than in Nightcom's run at this point, his meter was only about 2% full or so at this point. One last question, atro city, are there any bosses or places where you strongly recommend that I use the vulcan, I mean where it can save significantly amounts of time?
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Posted: 1/13/2006 2:03 PM
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atro_city
Active player (256)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
No, I meant that the first boss would be a good example of where you would charge up your meter some, since one of his attacks has him firing bullets. However, I probably wouldn't redo the first scene (although I didn't watch your most recent WIP...did you remember to get the bomb in the upper left-hand corner?). There are plenty of opportunities to charge the meter between then and the first boss of Desolation Canyon. Also, one thing you might want to try is with the guys who roll out onto the screen, then shoot, wait until they shoot to shoot them (which shouldn't be long, and shouldn't cost you any time). One last question, atro city, are there any bosses or places where you strongly recommend that I use the vulcan, I mean where it can save significantly amounts of time? That would be this part of my last post: I figure that if you play your cards right, you can get the Vulcan Gun at the following points: The boss of the first scene in Desolation Canyon (or whatever it's called). Possibly the first boss of Ammunition Depot. You can use the gun to the right to charge up, as well as the boss. If you can't get it charged, you can always charge it up for the one below. The Blue Orb boss. It fires bullets at you, so you can hit the bullets and hit the boss at the same time. The scorpion-like boss. It also fires many bullets that you can use to charge up your meter. Right before the last part of the armored train (the red part). If you're fast enough, you might even be able to use it against the jetpack guy, too. Probably not possible, but the twin robots at the beginning of the final stage fire 3 bullets from each arm. 12 bullets at a time might allow you to get the Vulcan Gun fast enough to smoke them. Either the boss right before the final boss, or the final boss. Most likely the former though, since it fires bullets like there's no tomorrow. I would recommend trying to get all of the above, with the probable exceptions of the first boss of Ammunition Depot, and the twin robots at the first scene of the final battle.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 1/14/2006 6:56 PM
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Nightcom
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Joined: 3/24/2004
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Location: West 81st Street
This'll be fun to watch ^_^
Posted: 2/26/2006 2:22 PM
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atro_city
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Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Any progress on this puppy?
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 2/26/2006 4:25 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Sorry for the lack of updates... I've been very busy with school and other stuff lately, and I've also had another run I wanted to finish too, so this run has been my fourth priority or something... But I do have a WIP which plays the first two levels (level 2 = inside the bar), but it was quite a while since I did it. I have one other run I want to finish before this, but I'll try to finish that run next week. But I do intend to finish this run, it was just that it sounded like a lot more planning and researching for this game than I first thought, with the different Vulcan strategies and all... But I can post the latest WIP once I get to my home-computer, I could perhaps play one level or two next week too, so don't worry, I haven't given up on this game yet!
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Posted: 2/26/2006 6:48 PM
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atro_city
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Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
That's good to hear. I thought I scared you off this game or something.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 2/27/2006 4:27 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1827)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2161
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Haha, well you did scare me a little with all that vulcan strategy. ;) This should be the latest WIP I have: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/860/wild_guns_hard_randil.smv Comments and tips are of course welcome, I would like to know if I need to redo it, you know. ;) And as I said in my previous post, don't expect any large new update the following days, but I should be able to get another WIP up in about a week or so, hopefully. Enjoy the WIP. :)
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Posted: 2/27/2006 4:36 PM
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atro_city
Active player (256)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Well, one obvious mistake is that you didn't get either of the two bombs for some reason, as well as 3 gold bags at the end. It also looks like you didn't hit the boss directly with the last few Grenade Launcher shots at the end. Otherwise, it looks good.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
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