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Posted: 3/4/2012 10:13 PM
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itsPersonnal
He/Him
Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
That's called a Saw Dash
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 2:10 AM
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itsPersonnal
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Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Yeah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P33wn54CJhE Here's a problem: the turrets in this game (or anything that shots afaik) shot differently on different computers... atm I am the only person that can play back the DTM from the start. If ptorflaxendrosis plays it back it "desyncs" at the pirate I used to get a speed boost, if I send him a save state from after the pirate shots me it syncs up fine until the second last room where I get shot by a turret to be put where I need to be standing for the dash. We have the exact same settings and ISO, I even sent him my folder and ISO to make sure of it...
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:59 AM
(Edited: 3/15/2012 11:11 PM)
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amaurea
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
Your progress looks good, but the desync is worrying. You have probably read this one already, but I will point you at it anyway: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12484 As a side note, it would be convenient if you edited out the into in these WIP updates.
Posted: 3/15/2012 1:00 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Are you in different time zones by any chance? If so, does the desync go away if he sets his computer's time zone to yours before playback?
Posted: 3/15/2012 4:47 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
If your computer's time mattered, it would never sync for anyone. My first guess is either dual core or idle skipping aren't disabled. Both of these can cause random desyncs that might not be immediately seen.
Posted: 3/15/2012 4:57 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
rog wrote:
If your computer's time mattered, it would never sync for anyone..
I didn't say time. I said timezone. (I'm a programmer but I've never looked at dolphin code so I may be wrong, but I've come across similar situations when dealing with network sync on connected apps) If some randomness depends on the gamecube's clock which is set based on an epoch, the epoch is a different amount of time in the past from the current system time for different timezones. If UTC (or some other way of discounting timezone differences) isn't used, then that would explain the problem. Either way, it should be very easy for itsPersonal to state which windows timezone he has set and for ptorflaxendrosis to try the same one and see what happens. If I'm wrong, at least it narrows it down to emulator settings and hardware. Also FWIW, this week, some parts of the world are on DST while others are not.
Posted: 3/15/2012 4:59 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Yes, but if something was based on the system clock, then trying to play back a movie on the same computer would always desync, since the time would be different than what it was when the movie was recorded. Am i wrong?
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:12 PM
(Edited: 3/15/2012 5:15 PM)
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
rog wrote:
Yes, but if something was based on the system clock, then trying to play back a movie on the same computer would always desync, since the time would be different than what it was when the movie was recorded. Am i wrong?
I'm saying that hypothetically, the time of the gamecube clock is reset for sync purposes to a specific time, say, "midnight, Jan 1, 2001". well, that is a different amount of milliseconds from "absolute zero time" depending on what timezone is being used to determine said date, because "midnight" is relative, see? Again, the problem could be unrelated, but what I am saying is possible. Also, itsPersonal could debunk this himself too, by setting his own timezone to something else and playing back the DTM
Posted: 3/15/2012 5:13 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Ah, i see what you mean. My bad, that could be it.
Posted: 3/15/2012 6:02 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
If that's really the case, the emulator should probably be modified to by default set the console clock to a specific epoch time instead of a system-relative time. How much sharing around of Gamecube/Wii TAS files has there been so far? I would think we'd have run into this issue before, since it's very common to use the console clock to initialize the RNG, and our TASers certainly aren't predominantly in only one timezone.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 3/15/2012 6:07 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
How much sharing around of Gamecube/Wii TAS files has there been so far?
Not much. And ThatGugaWhoPlay was unable to get my muramasa run to sync. It seems unlikely that timezones affect syncing, but it's not impossible that it does, and no one noticed it before.
Posted: 3/15/2012 6:09 PM
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CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Rog was able to play two of my Paper Mario: TTYD movie files back perfectly, and they were two slightly different lengths. However, it's possible that the randomness in that game may be based on the frame number and not the GameCube clock. I don't know if anyone else has had problems playing someone else's movie on their computer (this could be the first game that's had this problem).
Posted: 3/15/2012 7:41 PM
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itsPersonnal
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Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Its not really input desnyc, its because the TAS used the turrets/pirates to ether gain speed or be in a certain position. I would blame the audio settings because they can change luck manipulation (if that makes sense) Having different audio settings (LLE/HLE) can change the randomness of the enemy's in this game (it can also change the randomness of the emeralds in hunting missions in SA2B and most likely anything that involves luck manipulation in any game.) Problem here is we have the exact same settings (I gave him a USB with metroid prime and my dolphin folder on it) So here's the problem, yesterday when trying to get a higher quality framedump dolphin "desnyced" consistently at the turrets and I have to keep trying for hours before it just decided to work, I did nothing differently, it just worked every once in a while. So the DTM "can" be played back, but not every time you try, Idk if I should stop progress til this is fixed or what... And me and ptorflaxendrosis go to the same school, we have the same time zone exact same settings and exact same ISO, I think that dolphin just doesn't have 100% guarantee the same outcome with happen randomized enemy's in metroid prime :(
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 7:44 PM
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RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
So the DTM "can" be played back, but not every time you try, Idk if I should stop progress til this is fixed or what...
Sounds like dual core and/or idle skipping is enabled. Are they?
Posted: 3/15/2012 7:45 PM
(Edited: 3/15/2012 8:03 PM)
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itsPersonnal
He/Him
Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
No. Edit: Idle skipping managed to turn itself on <_<let>_>
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 7:55 PM
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ptorflaxendrosis
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
Idle Skipping has been enabled, Dual Core is not. It syncs the same way with it off, though.
www.youtube.com/user/ptorflaxendrosis
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:04 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Idle skipping is definitely the problem them. Turn it off, and redo whatever doesn't sync.
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:08 PM
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itsPersonnal
He/Him
Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Oh also here is another problem tho, its a problem with prime not dolphin afaik: watching cutscens then deleting your file then playing back the movie causes desync <_< so I need to delete the memory card itself to play back the DTM
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:10 PM
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RachelB
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Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
That will happen with any game, if you use a save file. Just make a .bat file to delete it whenever you play back from the start.
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:11 PM
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itsPersonnal
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Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Aw ok good idea, and btw I'll know if idle skipping was the problem in a second, dolphin runs at 60FPS but when playing back a movie goes at like 10 <_<
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:23 PM
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itsPersonnal
He/Him
Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Still got desnyc
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:26 PM
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RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Because it was recorded with idle skipping. You'll need to redo everything after the desync.
Posted: 3/15/2012 8:26 PM
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itsPersonnal
He/Him
Player (230)
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 540
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2015
Ugh <_<
Completed: 2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes 2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23 2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87 2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time) 2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350 2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10 2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567 Currently working on: SA2:B DARK STORY
Posted: 3/15/2012 9:13 PM
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ptorflaxendrosis
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2011
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
Hey, rog, is there some way to view the rerecords of a dolphin movie file? I see in your Muramasa TAS there is a rerecord number on the submission page.
www.youtube.com/user/ptorflaxendrosis
Posted: 3/15/2012 9:24 PM
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RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
It starts at 0x2d in the header. The rerecord counter in dolphin is retarded though. If you load a save state with read only, it'll read the rerecord count from the save state's .dtm, so if you make a new save state while playing back, and start recording from that, the rerecord coujnt will be wrong. if you were to use one save state every so often to verify your movie syncs, you could easily end up with a rerecord count of 0.
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