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Posted: 4/25/2010 11:23 PM
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sonicpacker
Active player (426)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
N64/DS TAS of 2021 TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
Just for kicks, I'm wondering what is considered a "100%" Run.
https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/
Posted: 4/26/2010 4:56 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I believe all badges, all quests/Side Quests done, maxed level/BP/HP/FP. I think that's all, but I could be wrong.
Posted: 4/26/2010 5:33 AM
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blahmoomoo
Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347
That would be incredibly boring to watch. I would drop the maxed level idea for sure, that would just require a lot of grinding. Not to mention that old enemies give you less star points as you level up. You can max out a stat fairly easily through a normal playthrough [doing so in a TAS may be unnecessary due to luck manipulation and the ability to defend against attacks; though maxing out FP would be useful], but maxing your level would involve fighting hundreds of random enemies until none of them give any star points. All badges would not really work either... that would involve going to the person that trades star bits for badges and getting everything there. Getting all badges that are hanging around on the worlds [i.e. not those which are being sold], however, would be acceptable to me. Getting all star bits would likely be a good goal for 100%, as it is similar to grabbing every honey comb from the BK 100% TAS. However, as this is an RPG, it's much harder to define what is 100%. I would think that any% should be the only category for RPGs. The main reason is that some goals that might go toward a true 100% would be boring to watch (i.e. get to level 99 for all characters in Chrono Trigger).
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
Posted: 4/26/2010 6:01 AM
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sonicpacker
Active player (426)
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
N64/DS TAS of 2021 TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
I agree. The main thing I would consider "100%" would be collecting all star pieces. The only other thing i would consider is all badges, but that could be a stretch. Edit: Also, here's something to look at.
https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/
Posted: 4/26/2010 11:46 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Somehow I actually forgot about the Star Pieces. However, all badges would be a requirement, as they are collectables. And besides, you would only have to visit the person with the badges once after you got all of the Star Pieces. But, yea, I agree about the max level thing. It would be extremely boring to watch all of that grinding. I've always wanted to see a 100% Speed Run or TAS of this game. I hope it does get done eventually.
Posted: 4/27/2010 7:59 AM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
It doesn't take as much grinding as it may seem to max out levels in Paper Mario: You can only go up to 27, and you can defer that to the room in Chapter 6 where you meet the Amazy Dayzee; it may even be possible to manipulate the area so it appears every time you come in, and the battle yields 37 Star Points when you're at level 26 and even more at lower levels (it's the only way to max out, there aren't enough star points among the boss characters and the regular enemies stop giving experience long before level 27).
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
Posted: 4/27/2010 8:15 AM
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Mr._Pwnage
Joined: 6/6/2004
Posts: 223
There are two non-boss, non-special enemies that continue to provide star points through level 26: Dry Bones and the Bombshell Bill cannons. Clearly you wouldn't want to grind with them, but if the run does seek to hit maximum level, you can adjust the amount of grinding you do elsewhere so that those few enemies (along with the anti guy squad) are enough to seal the deal and hit 27 right at the end of Bowser's Castle.
Posted: 4/29/2010 10:55 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I just thought of another requirement that would be needed, and that's Goombario's tattles on all enemies.
Posted: 4/29/2010 4:12 PM
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funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
is anyone planning a run of this, i would love to see it.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 4/30/2010 1:34 AM
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sonicpacker
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Joined: 9/21/2009
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Location: California
N64/DS TAS of 2021 TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
Depending on the final requirements of a 100% run, I was considering it. And I assume people will debate on what is better - a 100% or any% run.
https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:09 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I've already seen a lot of any% runs for Paper Mario over at SDA. I'd like to see a 100% run or TAS at some point in my pitiful life. :3
Posted: 4/30/2010 8:16 PM
Post subject: The Wizard Merlee
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SoulCal
Active player (335)
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 383
Location: Texas
I think the biggest improvement we can make to the any% run from SDA is the use of the wizard Merlee from the Dry Dry Outpost. I did a demo run using her to double my attack power for about 1/2 the boss battles. I was able to pay for her upgrades by collecting Whacka-Bumps (25 coins each) in the mountain area on the way to the Outpost. If we can eliminate at least 1 turn per battle in the run, then sacrificing about 2-2.5 minutes to collect the magic upgrades is a must. However, I am not able to predict when Merlee can appear. If anyone could get into the code of the game and find out what makes her appear, so we can manipulate her to double our attack power in battle, then we got ourselves many 1-turn boss fights. I've done some testing to try and find out what makes her appear, but for the most part it seems random: 1.) Let's say I load a save file, and I enter a battle and on the nth turn she appears. If I turn off the console and restart, by entering any other battle, she will also appear on the nth turn of that battle. So resetting the system does not affect her. 2.) The number of coins, experience, or the game timer (as far as I can tell) does not affect her appearances. I can wait 15 minutes, or collect coins, outside of a battle I know she will appear in, and she will still appear regardless of when I decide to start the fight. 3.) The use of items only delays her appearance. Back to what I was saying in 1.) If I am guaranteed that see will appear on the nth turn of a battle, but instead I use an item that turn, she will appear GUARANTEED the next turn, unless another item is used. What are your thoughts?
Posted: 4/30/2010 8:59 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Well, I would say, that in a TAS, you could probably get Merlee to appear whenever you want her to. It might just be a matter of luck manipulation, although, I could be wrong.
Posted: 5/1/2010 2:00 AM
Post subject: The Wizard Merlee
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SoulCal
Active player (335)
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 383
Location: Texas
Merlee's appearance is not as simple as you think. It is not like other RPGs where you can manipulate the AI just by delaying your actions by a few frames or by doing things that seem random to adjust her. There appears to be a static formula for her appearance, but we need to figure out what that is.
Posted: 5/1/2010 3:07 AM
Post subject: Re: The Wizard Merlee
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Antoids
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
SoulCal wrote:
I was able to pay for her upgrades by collecting Whacka-Bumps (25 coins each) in the mountain area on the way to the Outpost.
PROTIP: Learn how to luck manipulate Tayce T. and buy a handful of Mystery?s from Boo's Mansion, cook them all into 300-coin dishes, and your money problems are solved. Should be far faster. I know Boo's Mansion comes after, but you'll be using this trick all game, won't you?
Posted: 5/1/2010 5:48 AM
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SoulCal
Active player (335)
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 383
Location: Texas
Collecting Whacka-bumps doesn't take hardly any time at all. Buying the upgrades takes most of the time because of a cutscene. We must collect coins on the way to the Oasis, so backtracking should not even be considered. If it is even possible Antoids, then we can use Merlee for all battles. During a test run, I coincidentally was able to use Merlee for 1/2 the battles I was in. It is great to get rid of General Guy's tank in 1 turn, or destroy Huff N' Puff without him attacking but once.
Posted: 5/1/2010 2:53 PM
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funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
aren't there areas where you can upgrade you team members. are you guys going out of the way for those?
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 5/1/2010 4:09 PM
(Edited: 5/2/2010 12:29 AM)
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SoulCal
Active player (335)
Joined: 1/19/2010
Posts: 383
Location: Texas
There are cubes with orb things in them that are used to power up your party members. Many of them we can get without sacrificing but a few seconds. We only power up a few party members, like Parakarry, Bombette, and Watt.
Posted: 5/2/2010 12:27 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I have to admit, although I don't hardly use him myself, parakarry is really the best choice in a TAS or Speed Run.
Posted: 5/25/2010 4:00 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Well, after looking on SDA, it would appear that the person who was originally working on a 100% run, has resumed working on said run. So even if it doesn't happen here, we'll get our 100% fill from SDA at some point. :3
Posted: 6/22/2010 7:14 PM
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RinKaenbyou
Joined: 6/22/2010
Posts: 44
Location: The Hell of Blazing Fires
I think at best a 100% run involving collecting all the star bits alone would be justification enough. Sure, you could get to max level easy enough, but is it really required? You could certainly overkill with that much BP, possibly slaughtering Bowser in a quick hurry, but I think it might be more impressive doing that without such an abundance of badge equipping power. A lot of Star Pieces are actually very well hidden and getting all of them in interesting ways can spice up the movie a bit, though that would be hilariously difficult given the style of the overworld, possibly. Either way, this TAS? I would watch it. Possibly masturbate to it too.
This is only a little obsessive.
Posted: 6/22/2010 8:10 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
RinKaenbyou wrote:
I think at best a 100% run involving collecting all the star bits alone would be justification enough. Sure, you could get to max level easy enough, but is it really required? You could certainly overkill with that much BP, possibly slaughtering Bowser in a quick hurry, but I think it might be more impressive doing that without such an abundance of badge equipping power. A lot of Star Pieces are actually very well hidden and getting all of them in interesting ways can spice up the movie a bit, though that would be hilariously difficult given the style of the overworld, possibly. Either way, this TAS? I would watch it. Possibly masturbate to it too.
Um... What Star Bits? And I really don't think you should use that fourth-to-last word here; there might be preteens around.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 6/22/2010 8:30 PM
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funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
There are star bits scattered throughout the world. you have to do alot of backtracking to find them. if you get 5 you get something, but I forgot what that is.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 6/22/2010 11:03 PM
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arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120
Star Bits come from the Galaxy series, where Mario gets an extra life for every 50 collected; I think RinKaenbyou meant Star Pieces, which are very difficult to find in total and can be traded for badges (all pieces must be collected in order to get all of the badges).
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Posted: 6/22/2010 11:18 PM
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ivmaddnessvi
Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 85
Come on guys we obviously know what he is talking about. Star pieces.
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