Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
You can fly over the detransformation zone for BGS and you can fly underwater by entering it from out of bounds.
I'm going to make a compilation video of RBA tricks tomorrow. Me and Ringrush have already found lots of new clips and tricks =)
Hm, this means that dive might not really be needed then (from what I gather from RingRush's skip basic moves video).
(Ugh, could enter CCW puzzle w/o dive, but couldn't exit...using method to get FP honeycomb)
Cool, looking forward to them. :)
These are some real great discoveries! Keep at it!
It takes 25 mumbo tokens to become a bee. There will need to be some worlds in which you will need to stop for a few more mumbo tokens.
Another thing is that we need to know if we should do Clanker's Cavern or Bubblegloop Swamp. It's up in the air.
I would like to see a normal TAS run of this with these glitches having 41 jiggies, just to have a basis on what it would be like. It would be extraordinary if this run can be done in an hour and a half. I don't completely understand the Bee part, so it would be nice to see how it works out.
If we can find a 765 note door skip (is there one?) and a 810 note door skip, then theoretically you can complete this game with 260 notes and 16 jiggies if you do CC, or 18 jiggies if you do BGS. 1 jiggy for MM (most of the jiggies can be gotten here because the jiggies are extremely easy and quick), 2 for TTC, 5 for CC if you do that, or 7 for BGS if you don't want to do CC, and 8 for FP. You can do all 100 notes for MM, 80 notes for TTC, and 80 notes for CC or BGS. There may be better routes though for the notes. After that you can use the 450 note door skip, 640 note door skip, the undiscovered 765 note door skip, the undiscovered 810 note door skip, and the GoD skip.
RBA might not be necessary to complete this run. Or am I missing something?
Need to have the water raised with pumpkin to do the 640 note skip...so that's one of the issues with the route planning.
I'm wondering if the any% should learn all spiral mountain moves (faster), or only some moves (entertaining)...I guess that depends once the route is figured out...
I attempted to do the beginning part of the run without dive.
MM - All jiggies, 94 notes (in TAS, probably could get 3-6 underwater notes, so 97-100)
TTC - 9 jiggies (beak buster for blue jinjo, can't get get the jiggy that's underwater with the bomb thingy, all notes possible (though I only got 96, didn't attempt the one with blubber's treasure).
Skipped CC, had 190 notes (probably can get slightly more)
BGS - Got 7 jiggies, 72 notes... could get to 260 note door...
That's as far as I got...realized needed to get to MMM and get more jiggies...which messed up going directly to CCW after FP to change to bee.
Need to have the water raised with pumpkin to do the 640 note skip...so that's one of the issues with the route planning.
Oh damn, true. So this run will require 45 mumbo tokens? That's a lot.
Let's see, MM has 5 tokens, TTC has 10, BGS has 10, FP has 10, and MMM has 15. That's 50 in all. Minus 5 and you have your requirement. Grunty's Lair has 10 as well, and I doubt that you can get all of FP's mumbo tokens without wasting a lot of time.
It's inevitable that there will be some worlds you will need all the mumbo tokens.
AnotherUser wrote:
I'm wondering if the any% should learn all spiral mountain moves (faster), or only some moves (entertaining)...I guess that depends once the route is figured out....
It's faster to have all the Spiral Mountain moves right away.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
MortyOak wrote:
AnotherUser wrote:
I'm wondering if the any% should learn all spiral mountain moves (faster), or only some moves (entertaining)...I guess that depends once the route is figured out....
It's faster to have all the Spiral Mountain moves right away.
Any% and Low% would be different categories. The new TAS should be any% since there isn't one yet and low% is kind of a novelty run.
Oh, I see. Ha, never realized the difference.
MortyOak wrote:
Oh damn, true. So this run will require 45 mumbo tokens? That's a lot.
Let's see, MM has 5 tokens, TTC has 10, BGS has 10, FP has 10, and MMM has 15. That's 50 in all. Minus 5 and you have your requirement. Grunty's Lair has 10 as well, and I doubt that you can get all of FP's mumbo tokens without wasting a lot of time.
Hm yeah, looks doable. There's like 5 tokens in the lair you can get along the route. (CCW puzzle, CCW warp cauldron, Gobi's Valley, FP, MMM puzzle)
There are also 25 in Click Clock Wood that you can pick and choose from on the way to becoming a bee. It all depends on how many notes the run plans to pick up in the non-Spring areas.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
I found a lil' bitty time saver (maybe) in phase 3 of the Gruntilda fight. You can ground pound her twice back to back to get two hits. This could be used as the final two hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1P88Br2Fto
I don't know if it's faster or not.
I found a lil' bitty time saver (maybe) in phase 3 of the Gruntilda fight. You can ground pound her twice back to back to get two hits. This could be used as the final two hits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1P88Br2Fto
I don't know if it's faster or not.
That means beak bomb is no longer necessary to beat the game?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
JSmith wrote:
That means beak bomb is no longer necessary to beat the game?
Correct =) I mentioned this earlier when Ringrush listed it as a required move.
Cronikeys wrote:
RingRush wrote:
4. FP for beak bomb
Beak bomb isn't needed. You can ground pound Grunty in the final fight.
Groundpounding her isn't that hard and can easily be done realtime. Doing the double groundpound is really hard though (I had to TAS that video). I thought there might be a way to perform many groundpounds in a row to quickly finish the phase, but after the second one I kept getting knocked back without the ability to flap. A better TASer should probably play with this, though, because it might still be possible.
I thought there might be a way to perform many groundpounds in a row to quickly finish the phase, but after the second one I kept getting knocked back without the ability to flap. A better TASer should probably play with this, though, because it might still be possible.
Do normal air pecks work during phase 3?
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
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Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
JSmith wrote:
Do normal air pecks work during phase 3?
I don't know. I tried and couldn't get it (✿◡︵◡) This is something an experienced TASer should test. I haven't put nearly as much time into the Grunty Fight as I have into the rest of the game, so I'll work on it more later, too.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
I think this is max% bee (as of now) for the levels you would get into without paying using RBA
Some things I'm going to work on are clipping into RBB boat and GV temples to get more notes.
You can afford to miss out on 90 notes altogether, right? So RBA already has enough to skip the maximum number of jiggies.
Of course, there's the question of whether it's worth skipping the puzzles for every level you can, or just only the more expensive ones.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
810-(96+70+85) = 559 if Bubblegloop Swamp before RBA
810-(83+70+85) = 572 if Clanker's Cavern before RBA
Worlds before RBA if you skip opening 3:
Mumbo's Mountain
Treasure Trove Cove
Clanker's Cavern or Bubblegloop Swamp
Freezeezy Peak
Mad Monster Mansion
Click Clock Woods (20 notes in Spring, 16 in Summer, 48 in Fall, 16 in Winter)
It seems to me like you'd be better off paying for an extra world that you could use RBA for rather than going to Winter (assuming I did the math right).
Mumbo's Mountain - 1Treasure Trove Cove - 2
Clanker's Cavern - 5
Bubblegloop Swamp - 7
Freezeezy Peak - 8
Gobi's Valley - 9
Mad Monster Mansion - 10
Rusty Bucket Bay - 12
Click Clock Woods - 15Final Battle - 25
Honeycomb - 4
The jiggies you would need would be 36 plus whatever RBA-able world you would pay for (for example, paying for BGS and GV would mean you'd need 52 jiggies total).
I tried the levitating cheat plus the peck attack but couldn't get it...either doesn't work or frame perfect or something.
That looks like a good outline for collecting notes. So it looks like mainly CCW note amount is variable atm?
I'm surprised at how quickly that many notes can be collected for BGS and GV...Do you happen to know the times for CC and RBB (if those are not "only bee" times?)
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
AnotherUser wrote:
I tried the levitating cheat plus the peck attack but couldn't get it...either doesn't work or frame perfect or something.
That looks like a good outline for collecting notes. So it looks like mainly CCW note amount is variable atm...
I'm surprised at how quickly that many notes can be collected for BGS and GV...Do you happen to know the times for CC and RBB (if those are not "only bee" times?)
That's not an outline for how many notes to get in each level, it's just a list of levels before doing RBA (if you skip opening three worlds). I wanted to show how tight the note count would be if you skipped opening three worlds before doing RBA (assuming no way is found to clip into the boat in RBB, the temples in GV, etc.) in order to tie in my next line about paying for an extra world to avoid Fall and Winter in CCW. This would give you more flexibility for how many/which notes to get in each world.
As for the times you should just ignore them. I spent a lot of time testing stuff, so all four can be a lot faster. I just wanted to see how many notes, honeycombs, and jiggies I could get in each level while a bee.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
I found a way to get a lot more notes as bee by clipping into a temple in GV and the boat in RBB. I documented how (along with some other stuff to show off how bee works in other worlds) in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J_x7kt2MTc
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
I'm just loving the effort you guys are putting in this game right now, I've never really played it before but I'm enjoying all the progress that is being made, great work so far breaking this game.
Some things I'm going to work on are clipping into RBB boat and GV temples to get more notes.
