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Posted: 4/17/2009 1:56 AM
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Synx
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
When will run be finished? Waiting for AVI
Posted: 4/17/2009 2:56 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
You might want to check the workbench, mate. :)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 4/17/2009 2:57 AM
Post subject: poop jokes never cease to be funny
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Don't worry, it's like a bad case of major backed up diarrhea. It'll come out eventually, without question, when you least expect it. I'm going to a bad place when I die
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 4/17/2009 4:15 AM
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wicked
Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil
yeah nice movie there is anyone working on banjo-tooie btw?
Run..Run...Run.....
Posted: 4/17/2009 5:09 AM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
Derakon wrote:
You might want to check the workbench, mate. :)
Actually, not any more.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 5/10/2009 4:58 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Hey Sami, are you going to be working on a v2? If you are, I think now's a good time to write down every known improvement for routes and tricks, and start thinking of possible improvements (I have dozens).
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Posted: 5/10/2009 5:04 PM
(Edited: 5/10/2009 5:11 PM)
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
I think it's improvable by as many as eight seconds before the first note door. The major improvements are: 1)Manipulating the Conga jiggies so that they land on top of each other (skips one jiggy dance). Not implemented in the current run due to poor luck. 2)When using the roll-jump-flap sequence to move around before getting Talon Trot, start the flap stage as soon as possible to land quicker and start the next roll sooner. If done correctly, Banjo will only be in the air for a few frames. 3)Use a diving glitch to grab the underwater notes faster in Mumbo's Mountain. Not implemented in the current run because the version of the glitch that uses the exiting-talon-trot animation hadn't been discovered yet. 4)When grabbing the Mumbo's Mountain Witch switch jiggy, it's probably faster to hop backwards off the edge and flap back on than to wait until Banjo starts sliding. Rolling off would also work. EDIT:The fastest sequence of moves, if possible, would be to backflip onto the ledge, run up the slope, roll at the last possible frame to avoid sliding, cancel the roll directly into a backflip, and ground pound the rest of the way EDIT: Some testing earlier in the thread showed that when rolling through a door, it's sometimes a few frames faster to perform a backflip.
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Posted: 5/10/2009 5:11 PM
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Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
Also when slamming witch switches after hitting them can you move well in the air?
Posted: 5/10/2009 5:33 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
Kyman wrote:
Also when slamming witch switches after hitting them can you move well in the air?
Any time you hit a switch that causes a cutscene in an area that isn't loaded, it replaces you on the switch afterwards. You can still collect items before the cutscene starts, but you end up in the same spot afterwards no matter what you do.
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Posted: 5/10/2009 5:35 PM
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Kaylee
She/Her
Editor, Active player (434)
Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada
TAS of 2012 Speedy TAS of 2012 3D Platforms TAS of 2012 N64 TAS of 2010 Speedy TAS of 2010
In mumbo's mountain couldn't you land on a jiggy from the switch and avoid a dance?
Posted: 5/10/2009 5:52 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
Kyman wrote:
In mumbo's mountain couldn't you land on a jiggy from the switch and avoid a dance?
Not enough time. The cutscene starts while you're in midair.
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Posted: 5/10/2009 7:03 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Maybe Banjo could have grabbed a few notes or something while waiting for Clanker's bolt to pop out...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 5/10/2009 11:31 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
One suggestion (that I remember now without looking through the run) is to use Z+B to slide off ledges... being on the ground is what slows this move down, and in the air you go at very fast speeds, and have practically no lag at the end of the move. Edit: And of course, jumping+beak buster rather than climbing, especially to get the zipping effect. That should be used everywhere. On one of the very first green pipes climbed outside the paintings, I saved 1 whole second simply by using very unoptimized jump+beak buster to regrab the pipe.
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Posted: 5/11/2009 5:43 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
about a second or two can be gained between entering the lair and activating mumbo's mountain by cancelling gruntilda's speech before collecting jiggy 1.
Posted: 7/21/2009 1:07 AM
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rabid_squirrel
Joined: 7/21/2009
Posts: 3
Ok, this is Mr. I-just-discovered-TAS-and-I've-been-watching-TASes-of-all-my-favorite-games-on-youtube-in-the-last-three-days speaking (meaning I have no experience at all) I watched the Banjo-Kazooie run, and I loved it, but I'm hoping somebody does an any% run. IMHO, an any% run gets to the essence of what is possible to beat the game in, and I would think that's the meaning of life, the universe, and everything! (at least in the world of TAS :P) Just my two cents, and a bump for this thread in the hope of reviving it (and maybe convincing bkDJ to continue). (I'd also like to see an any% human speedrun, but that's for SDA)
Posted: 7/21/2009 1:37 AM
(Edited: 7/21/2009 2:51 AM)
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Kirkq
Player (210)
Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US
An any% would be alright, but I think it can mostly be inferred from the 100% run. You need 810 notes and 94 (I think?) Jiggies. So, you have to open all the worlds, and get all but 6 jiggies. So take out the slowest 6 jiggies, 90 notes that are out of your way, all the honeycomb pieces, and a couple stipulations made for a "100% run" and you have an any% run that amounts to about 10-15 minutes faster. It really isn't worth the effort to have such a similar lengthy run published. Half of the skipped jiggies and notes would probably be in Click Clock Wood, and you would probably either skip the jiggies in Freezeezy Peak requiring the running shoes or the jiggies in Gobi's Valley requiring the beak bomb. So really you aren't missing out on much. Go watch the 100% run and fast forward through the aforementioned portions. ;) If any cool glitches are found to bypass the requirements, I'd love to see it. Otherwise it's pretty much the same thing.
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Posted: 7/21/2009 1:39 AM
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Nightwatch
Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
rabid squirrel wrote:
Ok, this is Mr. I-just-discovered-TAS-and-I've-been-watching-TASes-of-all-my-favorite-games-on-youtube-in-the-last-three-days speaking (meaning I have no experience at all) I watched the Banjo-Kazooie run, and I loved it, but I'm hoping somebody does an any% run. IMHO, an any% run gets to the essence of what is possible to beat the game in, and I would think that's the meaning of life, the universe, and everything! (at least in the world of TAS :P) Just my two cents, and a bump for this thread in the hope of reviving it (and maybe convincing bkDJ to continue).
Banjo-Kazooie has such a tight requirement on the number of jiggies needed to complete the game that an any% run would be very similar to a 100% run.
Posted: 7/21/2009 7:55 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
But it's not just the Jiggies that the 100% run collects too many of. You can cut out some of the notes, and all of the extra honeycombs!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:35 PM
(Edited: 7/21/2009 9:43 PM)
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rabid_squirrel
Joined: 7/21/2009
Posts: 3
I really think if you cut out ALL the honeycombs, you could shorten the game by a lot. I'd be fast forwarding every ten minutes. Think about how far-flung many of those honeycombs are. (Gobi's one in GV, under the ice in CCW, down in the water in TTC) You need 6 less jiggies right? Actually, I think you should skip Mr. Vile - that one takes forever. Maybe you could skip being a crocodile, and then you'd need way less mumbo tokens? maybe you could skip being a bee? See how much debate there would be over what to skip and whatnot? I seriously think an any% would require a much different strategy. As I said, I'm no expert, but I would be surprised if the runs would not be at least 20% different, and it would probably be more like 30%. And I still think it's silly to have a 100% run and NOT an any% run. Aren't you wondering how fast the game could possibly be beaten? Is it 2:10? or maybe it could be sub 2 hours? (okay, that's probably impossible, but still.) I'm kind of miffed at how fast this was shot down, with a "oh he's just a noob" attitude >.>
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:40 PM
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Captain_Forehead
Player (79)
Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah
The only reason the 100% run was done first is because it was easier than having to plan out what jiggies you would have to get, and the note route planning would be a huge bother. But in a 100% one, you can just collecting everything in each level and move on...not that you wouldn't have to plan it out though. Still, it's easier.
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:48 PM
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rabid_squirrel
Joined: 7/21/2009
Posts: 3
^ well, there is some planning over at SDA, that would be a good starting point. http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,9803.0.html Someone who just posted there (right after I did) mentioned a glitch about opening MMM and RBB early that skips 27 jiggies? It's not acceptable on SDA, but over here....
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:02 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I don't think that was about a glitch, but about the cheat codes you can enter in the sandcastle. If you were entering the codes you have to win from Cheato or Bottles' puzzles, then I think they would be fine, but I don't think we'll allow the long cheats that you have to just magically know and that let you skip levels and get infinite items. Besides, do you really want to trade actual gameplay for watching Banjo and Kazooie hammer in letters for another few minutes? It's too bad the "legitimate" cheats would never save time. Now I wish they were part of the 100% requirement. Though I guess the home puzzle ones that alter your character aren't even saved to your file, are they?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 7/21/2009 10:47 PM
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Nightwatch
Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
It's too bad the "legitimate" cheats would never save time. Now I wish they were part of the 100% requirement. Though I guess the home puzzle ones that alter your character aren't even saved to your file, are they?
None of the cheats except the mild ones that Cheato gives you are saved. The game doesn't even save the "strong cheat" counter (the one that deletes your saved game if you use too many "strong cheats"; i.e. anything that alters Grunty's Lair). So you can enter as many as you want without penalty if you save and quit after every two cheats entered.
Posted: 7/21/2009 11:08 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Right, I considered Cheato's codes to be more like upgrades than cheats. And if they were in a speed run, you wouldn't leave viewers wondering "So who's that floating book in the credits?"
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 7/22/2009 5:02 AM
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Nightwatch
Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
The cheat system in BK is actually pretty horrendously complex. I guess I might as well put the info I've collected down here, since I've never seen it all gathered in one place before (and there's lots of misinformation). There are *five* types of cheats in BK, arranged from least to most egregious (at least in terms of what the game apparently thinks): (1) Cheato upgrades: obtained from Cheato in three hidden places in Grunty's Lair, these upgrade your max item counts. Only usable once unlocked. The effects are permanent and are saved in your game file. (2) Bottles' bonuses: obtained from Bottles minigames after completing the game, these cheats change your character model. Only usable once unlocked. The effects can be reversed by entering NOBONUS or by restarting. Only the unlocked/locked status of these cheats, not the effects, are saved. (3) "Regular" cheats: give you unlimited health, air, honeycombs, etc. These were known while the game was in stores. I assume Rare put them up on their web site or spilled them to magazines. You can enter these as much as you like, but the effects aren't saved in your file. (4) Stop 'n' Swop cheats: unlock the eggs and the ice key. Rare never revealed these: most likely they were going to be revealed in Banjo-Tooie. There's no penalty for entering these. The effects are permanent and are saved in your file. (5) Sequence breaking/"strong" cheats: let you sequence break by modifying parts of Grunty's Lair. Rare never revealed these: they were found by disassembling the game. Using one of these cheats bumps the cheat counter, which is not saved in your file (so you can save and quit to reset it). When your cheat counter hits 2, you get the message "Stop this cheating, Grunty says, or your Game Pak I'll erase!" If you then attempt to enter a third cheat, Bottles will prompt you to confirm that you really want to enter the cheat: if you say yes, the game will erase your file! Because the state of Grunty's Lair is saved in your file, the effects of these cheats are saved too.
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