Possible explanation for lower time on PC: there is a dialogue bug. Usually the timer runs while people are speaking, but it's possible to pause the PC version just before this happens. So it's not really faster, it's just less time on the clock.
I'm not sure if that is the reason on this level.
rhebus: Early versions of Starcraft had a bug called Command Center slide. It's not possible on the latest version. I remember reading it was fixed before it was ported to N64, but that could of course be wrong.
PC speedruns seem to use whichever SC version which is faster for that particular level. So a lot of the PC times will not be possible to beat.
SC64 uses patch 1.07 IIRC.
So all the bugs that came before it should be fixed. I think we still have access to CCSlide using Comsat stations though, gotta test that one. Drone float, SCV stack too.
Here's the patch notes: http://www.danielstaniforth.co.uk/Starcraft/patch.html
You'll have all the major bugs expect for non-add-on building slide, and invincible drone. So still gliding SCV, teleporting drone, floating drone, add-on slide, mobile nydus.
The dialog skip bug is only relevant in brood war.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Spider-Waffle, perhaps you could write down how the SC 64 bugs work? What to click on in which order? It seems many people would be interested in this, and it would help to get a SC tas get going.
gliding SCV and teleporting drone: these are done by wedging a scv or drone into a tight place then blocking the rest of the ways out with other units, there needs to be some room for it move around, the way it's facing and positioning of the other units matters a lot it's very sensitive and random, might be possible with just units, best I've done is 1 hatch and some drones. Then tell the worker to build something anywhere, if done right the SCV will gliding straight to it and the building be started instantly, the drone will teleport and make the building.
floating drone: Done by making a drone build an extractor, then holding shift and telling it to move to the extractor and then move somewhere else. Then you need drone to be preventing from building the extractor during the process of going to it. Can be done by telling it to stop and the exact right time, or not having enough minerals, or there being another drone making another extractor there slighting sooner.
mobile nydus: takes advantage of bug with overriding a hotkey then pressing that hotkey on the next frame. To do this you need to hotkey a unit, then select a different unit, hotkey it to same the key and then press that hotkey on the next frame. This will give the menu options for the first hotkeyed unit but everything you do will be done to the second hotkeyed unit. So make the first unit something you can cancle, like a morphing egg, cocoon, or building, and second a nydus exit, then cancle.
Not sure how to do the add-on float but normal float is done by selecting floated building, holding shift, telling to land, stop then move somewhere before it starts to land. I think add-on float is done the same but you first tell it to make an add-on, then later while it's in process of landing you don't have enough money for add-on.
You can look at my youtube channel for examples of all these bugs being preformed.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Some of those patch 14 items look potentially helpful. Particularly Terran buildings training units while lifted (at the very least saving walking time), the "two exploits that allowed players to gain minerals very quickly" (how?) and command center infestation without a queen (could save a few seconds taking out a command center in a couple of missions).
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
exploits are different than bugs, they required a hack.
training units while lifted I suppose could be used, I think you just train and lift at the same time; however, I'm not sure if it actually builds while lifted or is just qued up, I think it just qued up. It can be used to building something with add-on, lift and land without add-on and build the add-on required unit.
Also there are two types of building slides, one the building acts like it's on ground while sliding then stays on the ground when it's done, the other the building acts like it's in the air while sliding, then does lift-off animation once it's done, with this slide the building will go through everything since it's like it's in the air, though I don't know if units can walk through it.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
So, it's been almost two years, and I figured I'd test this out.
I cannot get Tiger's movie to sync. It seems to go awry when the SCV starts talking, the dialogue window is open for a pretty long time. I have deleted the .fla save file before starting. Any other ideas?
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
I just tried it out and I had no luck as well.
I have the exact plugins he used, and rom checksum match, and what I believe is the same emulator version, so I go no ideas left.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I had problems TASing this game as well. Desynchs and game playing speed mostly. Even when I went to the menus and turned the gameplay speed to the maximum, it still felt like it was running at 85% the speed of the PC version. The other main difference I noticed, and this is huge, is that your units are insanely attracted to opposing units. In the speedruns for the PC, you can click somewhere on the map, and your unit will run to it and ignore everything else. On the N64 version, if you try moving a unit somewhere, any time an enemy units comes within range, he instantly wants to stop and start firing. You have to multiclick numerous times per second to interrupt this and make him keep going, and even then the final product will look like your unit pausing momentarily every few seconds when enemy units are nearby. This will cost eventual seconds, and it will also prevent you from focusing on other parts of the battlefield if you have to constantly monitor one/more units squeezing past enemy units. While it's nice to create a "shortcut" on your home base (you can 'save' the screen position of any place, and with the press of one button, instantly go to it) I think that the other micro/macro commands from the PC version will be better. I think efforts would be better spent trying to make a run using Hourglass for the Windows version than the N64 one (I'm hoping that the single player modes have no randomness to map locations and such, unlike Diablo I/II). Who knows, maybe you can get an older patch and have access to some of the glitches, like dropping a Terran building on top of other buildings to destroy it, etc.
In Zerg 9 the Floating Drone bug works wonders
N64 version use Jabo's D3D6 1.5 GFX plugin.
The runs have to be on pace with or faster than the SDA records.
ComicalFlop: there are two movement commands:
- Move, which ignores enemies
- Attack, which attacks enemies and structures along the way.
A run without a movement command would be meaningless, but it seems that there is both Move and Attack in the N64 version.
The gamespeed doesn't (or shouldn't) affect the internal timing of the missions.
The C> button is the move command.
C<is>.
The B button is for the workers to harvest/return resources.
A few abilities such as the Zerg Queen's Infestation is mapped to the B button.
The B button is the auto-command which uses the attack command is also used for entering transports, as well as setting rally points for factories.
Hold R and press A to select multiple units at once.
Hold Z and press A to select/deselect units while units are selected.
Whenever enemies do suicide missions, the game lags. This doesn't happen on PC.
For a run, set the game speed and cursor speed to the max.
Maybe do a run that unlocks all cheats. (don't kill the orange civilian)
Hmm, I was just thinking that if they added more functions to one button than normally exist on PC version, that with the control group over-wright glitch, you might be able to do more exploits that are not possible on PC version.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
The maps are set ahead of time comicalflop. There is almost no randomness in starcraft. The only things I can think of that might be random is damage dealt by units that deal less damage than the armor of the target, and the movement of critters.
Also--
Because this version came out so much later than the PC version, many of the more critical bugs will have been fixed. double canceling units and sliding buildings would be possible in V1.0 on the PC, but I don't think it can be done here.
If anyone wants to test-- to slide a building, lift off, then land it, but as it is landing, add waypoints to stop then move to where you want it to slide. This lets you mine from closer than is usually possible, and gives strange behavior when units are produced from that building.
To double cancel, just repeatedly cancel a queued unit during lag. I am not sure if this worked offline because it might have required network latency to happen, but worth checking out.
Anyway, if it becomes possible in hourglass to play this game, I would be all over it.
The version is known, and the patch files says which bugs you can still do. I made about post it about a while back. I think you can still do most of the bugs besides building slides and maybe a couple others if I remember correctly.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
The maps are set ahead of time comicalflop. There is almost no randomness in starcraft. The only things I can think of that might be random is damage dealt by units that deal less damage than the armor of the target, and the movement of critters.
Also--
Because this version came out so much later than the PC version, many of the more critical bugs will have been fixed. double canceling units and sliding buildings would be possible in V1.0 on the PC, but I don't think it can be done here.
If anyone wants to test-- to slide a building, lift off, then land it, but as it is landing, add waypoints to stop then move to where you want it to slide. This lets you mine from closer than is usually possible, and gives strange behavior when units are produced from that building.
To double cancel, just repeatedly cancel a queued unit during lag. I am not sure if this worked offline because it might have required network latency to happen, but worth checking out.
Anyway, if it becomes possible in hourglass to play this game, I would be all over it.
There is some randomness...
If you're firing up a cliff there is a 30% (or possibly 50%) that you will miss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FapOVwD82Fs
Something to keep in mind, though, that's in the PC game I'm not sure about N64 specifically but I think everything is the same?
Joined: 3/31/2010
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JSmith wrote:
the "two exploits that allowed players to gain minerals very quickly" (how?)
Normally, a base (Terran Command Center, Zerg Hive, Protoss Nexus) have to be built away from minerals and gas geysers. You can see this by trying to build a base near minerals. Your build blueprint should show red in the invalid areas. The recent SDA run for Terran shows how to use the sliding building glitch to get that base very close to the minerals. This allows the harvesting units (SCV, Drone, Probe) to move back and forth very quickly. Thus getting lots of minerals fast.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war.
The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
I don't think it's referring to that, it has a seperate patch list for that, I think all exploits where something that required a hack of some sort. Bugs where things that could be done without any hacks. There should be a line for patch 1.02 or something that says something like, "fixed bug that allowed players to slide buildings"
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
The Can You Do # Tricks series of maps utilizes the glitches provided in different versions.
You can finish Zerg 9 faster in 1.09b.
1.00 is unstable as you could do a glitch in multiplayer where you can get extra resources.
1.06 and 1.07 are only relevant to Battle.net, but there is a teleporting drone bug in the latter.
Do not use 1.11 or you'll have no sound unless you're using Windows 95 or 98 (or set compatibility to Windows 95), plus you can stack buildings even when your probe or SCV is visible on map (the stack glitch was partially fixed in 1.11b, which can still be performed in defense maps [Shared Vision AI Script and hotkeys])
1.13f is rather glitchy.
Prior to 1.15.2, you need ISO images in order to TAS.
1.15.3, the Zerg and Terran are unbalanced due to exploits.
If you're running 64-bit Windows, change the compatibility settings in StarEdit to run as administrator so you can play the maps you created.
Anyways, the N64 version has some lag in a few situations. Like a cluster of enemies being issued at once causes it to slow down. The poor system can't keep up. Maybe if we can overclock the game...
