there's only one thing left to discover for me:
better woodfall boss key skip
should be the last useful thing left to discover for any%
can anyone tell me, how to do a ESS off a Mega Flip in OoT, because I want to test it for MM.
you get a slide effect after mega flip in MM, too, so this should work perfectly
edit: after watching your video of ESS off mega flip in OoT again, I think, I know how to know
my mistake was, that I was still holding Z, while mega flipping, but if I'm right, I have to do a mega flip without any targeting to be able to get a ESS off it
ok, it works
ESS off Mega Flip in MM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5boAiDnN9O8
If my eyes are right, it seems to be slower than a ESS off a Superslide
maybe I did something wrong :/
Sorry I didn't know that you didn't count that first gap.
MrGrunz wrote:
ok, it works
ESS off Mega Flip in MM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5boAiDnN9O8
If my eyes are right, it seems to be slower than a ESS off a Superslide
maybe I did something wrong :/
Looks about the same speed for me. That ISS works out of a megaflip in MM is certainly a nice information.
That is definatly going to be usefull in the fairy fountains, the hover in woodfall and maybe the second hover in snowhead and the hover into great bay. ^^
Btw. I have a suggestion for destroying the snowballs in snowhead, since we won't have the Goron Mask and probably no Chus to spare. Might be that somebody else has allready thought about it, like most of my ideas, but oh well:
The first snowball gets destroyed by the hover which leaves 3. Now place a bomb in front of the next ball and get out your fire arrows and aim. The moment the bomb explodes shoot the arrow. The bomb will take out the next 2 snowballs and the arrow the last one and you have a free path. ^^
Ofcourse it's a little longer than it would be with chus, but it's the fastest way I can think about...
Sorry I didn't know that you didn't count that first gap.
MrGrunz wrote:
ok, it works
ESS off Mega Flip in MM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5boAiDnN9O8
If my eyes are right, it seems to be slower than a ESS off a Superslide
maybe I did something wrong :/
Looks about the same speed for me. That ISS works out of a megaflip in MM is certainly a nice information.
That is definatly going to be usefull in the fairy fountains, the hover in woodfall and maybe the second hover in snowhead and the hover into great bay. ^^
Btw. I have a suggestion for destroying the snowballs in snowhead, since we won't have the Goron Mask and probably no Chus to spare. Might be that somebody else has allready thought about it, like most of my ideas, but oh well:
The first snowball gets destroyed by the hover which leaves 3. Now place a bomb in front of the next ball and get out your fire arrows and aim. The moment the bomb explodes shoot the arrow. The bomb will take out the next 2 snowballs and the arrow the last one and you have a free path. ^^
Ofcourse it's a little longer than it would be with chus, but it's the fastest way I can think about...
I think, we have enough explosives to be able to destroy the snowballs with chus
fairy fountain takes 14 explosives
getting up the rest of snowhead 4
getting through the bridge room takes 1 explosive
getting over to wizrobe battle 1 takes 2 explosives
snowballs part takes 5 explosives
getting over to the boss door takes 3 explosives
boss key skip takes 2
total:
31 explosives
we use 2 bombs for fairy fountain (ISG + Mega Flip)
2 bombs to climb snowhead
1 bomb in bridge room
2 bombs to get over to wizrobe
2 bombs for snowball part
2 bombs to get over to boss door
1 bomb for boss key skip
total:
12 bombs
so we use 12 bombs and 19 bombchus for snowhead temple, what means, that we have enough bombchus for the snowball part
Well it's really not worth speculating at this point. The snowballs are pretty much at the end of the temple which means at the point we get there, we'll know how many chus we have left. But point taken. :D
Btw. did you allready try getting up snowhead from the fairy fountain or how do you know that it takes 3 explosives?
what I did was not spekulating, it was writing down facts ;)
watch swordless snowhead WIP of his first TAS attemp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6teMbrM7I4w&feature=channel_page
he needed 4 explosives from the hill to the temple
we need 5 if we use fairy fountain wrong warp because of the extra bomb to activate ISG
I forgot to count the last superslide in my last post, but that doesn't change the fact, that we have enough bombchus for blowing up the snowballs
Yeah I didn't express mayself very well.
I just menat if we need explosives somewhere before we have momentarely forgotten or getting up to the temple from the fountain takes more explosives as getting up there from the entrance.
I meant that the important part is that we have enough explosives for the temple and how much exactly we have to spare we'll know for sure when we are there. Though we know it pretty uch now there is allways a little bit of uncertainty...
Btw. nice climbing the stone tower. ^^
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Hells yeah. I've been quietly waiting on this for quite some time. As MM is becoming more and more broken the more I really think this run needs to be made (no offense intended towards the great work Mr Grunz, Slowking, Petrie and Swordless have been doing recently). I stated a few years ago that 100% MM was unrealistic, now I think it's perfectly feasible, especially when Mupen64plus is released.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "open source TAS". This is a perfect candidate. Anyone?
I remember you saying that the main time wasting element of the 100% was the Kafei quest. I can't quite take an in-depth look at the route at the moment, but did you solve this dilemma?
Mukki wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "open source TAS". This is a perfect candidate. Anyone?
Hells yeah! (As in, I agree, not nominating myself.)
I remember you saying that the main time wasting element of the 100% was the Kafei quest. I can't quite take an in-depth look at the route at the moment, but did you solve this dilemma?
Sort of. There's nothing you can do about the Kafei/Anju Quest, but it's not too hard to work around.
The most annoying thing was the Seahorse HP, which forced getting the NWBN on the same segment as the temples. Otherwise, most of the route worked out rather well.
Hmm my first question about the 100% route is couldn't you do it in 3 cycles. Not that I would want to see a 3 cycle route at any cost, but I've just seen the SDA 100% run and there was a lot of time forewarding in the last two cycles and I feel that it will automatically get tighter if you were to do it in 3 cycles total. In a TAS it should be possible...
Btw. are you doing all this while time is slowed down or in real time?
A few other things:
- Why don't you wrong warp glitch to the lens of truth cave? It seems much faster than going there the normal way. If it was good enough for any%, it should be more than good enough for 100%.
- You get the bunny ears pretty late. Couldn't those help moving faster? You are at the farm at the night of the first day anyway. Now the game where you get them is closed at the time, but you can hover in there and it shouldn't even take that much explosives...
- Since you are going to need a LOT of money in a 100% it might be a good idea to do Stone Tower as your first temple. Once you have the light arrows you can shoot stuff for money on your way. Since you are probably going to use the giants mask for the twinmold battle it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
- If you get the HP from the toilet hand at the end of the trade cycle you don't have to get the moon tear twice. Might save some time. (oh unless you are not doing the trading and hover to the heart pieces...)
Other than this I can't see anything at the moment.
Just fyi in the bombers secret passage are some fish swimming around that could be used for the HP...
some of you may have seen it already, but here's how stone tower will look like in a TAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPtWqB6gTgg&feature=channel_page
we can clear the first gap with 3 mega flips, so getting into the temple takes:
-10 bombs
-7 bombchus
stone tower temple takes 26-27 (boss key skip probably possible with 10) explosives
altogether 44 explosives
it should be best to get 5 bombs from the enemys in the mirror room.
Hmm my first question about the 100% route is couldn't you do it in 3 cycles. Not that I would want to see a 3 cycle route at any cost, but I've just seen the SDA 100% run and there was a lot of time forewarding in the last two cycles and I feel that it will automatically get tighter if you were to do it in 3 cycles total. In a TAS it should be possible...
3 cycles is impossible. The Blast Mask, Madame Aroma's Bottle, and the Postman's Hat are entirely mutually exclusive. You can thank the Kafei/Anju quest for that.
Btw. are you doing all this while time is slowed down or in real time?
I think it should all be doable without slowing down time. The third cycle might need it, but the second should be able to do without it, and the fourth doesn't want it.
A few other things:
- Why don't you wrong warp glitch to the lens of truth cave? It seems much faster than going there the normal way. If it was good enough for any%, it should be more than good enough for 100%.
- You get the bunny ears pretty late. Couldn't those help moving faster? You are at the farm at the night of the first day anyway. Now the game where you get them is closed at the time, but you can hover in there and it shouldn't even take that much explosives...
- Since you are going to need a LOT of money in a 100% it might be a good idea to do Stone Tower as your first temple. Once you have the light arrows you can shoot stuff for money on your way. Since you are probably going to use the giants mask for the twinmold battle it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
- If you get the HP from the toilet hand at the end of the trade cycle you don't have to get the moon tear twice. Might save some time. (oh unless you are not doing the trading and hover to the heart pieces...)
-This is the best time to get Kamaro's Mask, and the nearest generic pit is still the one in S. Termina Field. Plus I wanted to have enough chus to get the HP in Goron Village.
-The bunny hood is generally inferior to supersliding and Goron rolling, and it takes up a C-button. I'd do it after protecting the ranch, but Kamaro's Mask is only available at night. For the record, the Bunny hood moves at half the speed of Goron Rolling/Supersliding.
-Stone Tower cannot come before Snowhead. Fire Arrows are needed for the stray fairies. Admittedly, Stone Tower could be put earlier in the run, but I'd like to have the Gilded Sword by then, and we need something to do to pass the time on cycle 4 anyways.
-yeah, the exceedingly long trading cutscenes mean hovering is the best option. Besides, I don't have any paper to spare from the Kafei/Anju quest, so I'm stuck using Title deeds.
I just found a really weird glitch today...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYV4HCNcNJo
(yeah I know I suck at hovering, first time I EVER did something like this)
I dont know what the hell is happening, and why you spawn in the mayors residence. Maybe its manipulatable where you spawn, I dont know. Someone should watch memory adresses to see what the hell is going on. Didnt test possible complications with SoS, was way to lazy to play up to this point again
If requested Ill upload savestates and moviefile
EDIT: Whoo, 100 posts :)
3 cycles is impossible. The Blast Mask, Madame Aroma's Bottle, and the Postman's Hat are entirely mutually exclusive. You can thank the Kafei/Anju quest for that.
I know about the Bottle and Postmans hat. You need the letter for both. But what has the Blast mask to do with kafeis quest?
-The bunny hood is generally inferior to supersliding and Goron rolling, and it takes up a C-button. I'd do it after protecting the ranch, but Kamaro's Mask is only available at night. For the record, the Bunny hood moves at half the speed of Goron Rolling/Supersliding.
Yeah I just thought it might be good to have it for short distances where we can't use either of these two. And you would only need about 4 explosives to get in there when it's not open...
-Stone Tower cannot come before Snowhead. Fire Arrows are needed for the stray fairies. Admittedly, Stone Tower could be put earlier in the run, but I'd like to have the Gilded Sword by then, and we need something to do to pass the time on cycle 4 anyways.
Ah ok didn't know that you need fire arrows.
-yeah, the exceedingly long trading cutscenes mean hovering is the best option. Besides, I don't have any paper to spare from the Kafei/Anju quest, so I'm stuck using Title deeds.
I just meant when you are through with the whole trading sequenz you don't have any use for the last deed anymore and you could use that to get the toilet HP. But if it takes to long hovering is ofcourse the better idea.
Btw. just fyi in the bombers secret passage are some fish swimming around that could be used for the HP. Since we are a lot in ECT and it's right there...
3 cycles is impossible. The Blast Mask, Madame Aroma's Bottle, and the Postman's Hat are entirely mutually exclusive. You can thank the Kafei/Anju quest for that.
I know about the Bottle and Postmans hat. You need the letter for both. But what has the Blast mask to do with kafeis quest?
-The bunny hood is generally inferior to supersliding and Goron rolling, and it takes up a C-button. I'd do it after protecting the ranch, but Kamaro's Mask is only available at night. For the record, the Bunny hood moves at half the speed of Goron Rolling/Supersliding.
Yeah I just thought it might be good to have it for short distances where we can't use either of these two. And you would only need about 4 explosives to get in there when it's not open...
-yeah, the exceedingly long trading cutscenes mean hovering is the best option. Besides, I don't have any paper to spare from the Kafei/Anju quest, so I'm stuck using Title deeds.
I just meant when you are through with the whole trading sequenz you don't have any use for the last deed anymore and you could use that to get the toilet HP. But if it takes to long hovering is ofcourse the better idea.
-If you get the Blast Mask, Sakon won't try to sell the Big Bomb Bag to the Curiosity shop on the night of the second day, meaning Kafei doesn't follow him back to his hideout, meaning you can't complete the Sun's Mask quest. Nintendo programmed that surprisingly well, and I haven't found a way around it.
-It's not that I can't get in, it's that I haven't the time. Unless you expect us to get to the ranch with enough time to do it before the aliens, there's no time afterwards, since I have to go get Kamaro's Mask. I need the Bremen Mask for it, so I can't do it on the first ranch trip, either.
-for the record, there is no last deed. The Scrub in Ikana pays you 200r for the Ocean Title Deed.
hmm, it has been discovered already
I found it back in october and thought, that it would be new, but it wasn't :/
the reason why you warp to the major residence is, that it has the memory address 0 and the fake owl as well, so this is the place, where you get warped to. I could be wrong with this
if you activate this owl as the first owl statue, you can warp to great bay via SoS with this ;)
oh, and petrie, could you try to create a non-TAS route for me? I could start another MM run, but doing another run, would be only worth, if I skip goron mask, because if I don't skip it, the route would be basicly the same like the route of my old run. the only difference would be skipping ST and GBT boss key
I'll have a look, if the fairy wrong warp to snowhead is possible for non-TAS, but I have some doubt, that it is
"Probably dumb question by noob who don't know all the facts of the route", but what's the problem with this:
During first cycle there's some time to spare right? (i don't remember if that has been taken care of yet :p)
What happens if you activate owl statue during this cycle(i guess this idea is fucked up by both needing more explosives and money), complete the cycle, then when next cycle starts, you can SoS(after getting it) to GB without actually been there before = no need to hover into there later? I know i am missing something obvious but as stated before, i don't know enough of the game to realize what :P
here's the problem:
when you activate another owl statue, you aren't able to warp to GB anymore
so if you get SoS, you mustn't acitavte the woodfall and swamp owl statue to be able to warp to GB, so you would have to travel to woodfall twice
-If you get the Blast Mask, Sakon won't try to sell the Big Bomb Bag to the Curiosity shop on the night of the second day, meaning Kafei doesn't follow him back to his hideout, meaning you can't complete the Sun's Mask quest. Nintendo programmed that surprisingly well, and I haven't found a way around it.
Ah ok didn't know this. I guess I never tried kafeis quest in the same cycle as the kaboom mask.
-It's not that I can't get in, it's that I haven't the time. Unless you expect us to get to the ranch with enough time to do it before the aliens, there's no time afterwards, since I have to go get Kamaro's Mask. I need the Bremen Mask for it, so I can't do it on the first ranch trip, either.
Yeah doing it before was the idea. I think it should be doable...
-for the record, there is no last deed. The Scrub in Ikana pays you 200r for the Ocean Title Deed.
Oh. It's really been to much time since I did the whole trading. I could have sworn that there was a last deed. ^^"
Btw. I found a tiny mistake in the route. You have the all-night mask listed in cycle 4 but you'll actually have to get it at the end of cycle 3.
Ah, yes, that...someone at SDA already beat you to the punch. You'll also notice I forgot to include actually getting the Great Fairy Sword after Stone Tower.
right at the end, couldnt you super slide from mega/super flip to speed into the loading zone?
sorry if its already been mentioned, or theres a reason for it, im a n00b
