Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Yeah, I saw your Fireman movie in the BBS. Nice work.
EDIT: Just watching your "pending" FMV. Awesome work, Bisqwit. The Dr. Wily levels should prove a real challenge as your weapons won't automatically refill.
Man, that's a cool video so far. Two minutes faster on just the 6 robots. Very nice work.
I've not had any luck at MM4 yet, either, though I haven't had time to try much.
feitclub wrote:
I wonder if Megaman 3, 4, 5, or 6 have these kinds of holes to exploit? Or does Rush not allow it?
I think that's part of it but I also imagine that the collision checks and such are more accurate than in the first 2 games. They'll be a lot more difficult to find and execute. If it can even be done that is.
EDIT: Just watching your "pending" FMV. Awesome work, Bisqwit. The Dr. Wily levels should prove a real challenge as your weapons won't automatically refill.
Indeed.
I'm going to use the weapons the same way as Morimoto did, but the real problem comes from the use of the magnet beam.
Energy updates are really scarce in the Wily levels, and the last time I tried, the robots weren't willing to give any either.
Looks like I have to do some dances there too like I did in the Cutman and Bombman levels.
Many people have been hoping to see a Rockman movie that doesn't use the pause trick.
The idea of the pause trick is that is suspends all moving parts while the boss takes his time blinking. When the blinking ends, pause is cancelled and the objects (most importantly the shots) start moving again, making damage again.
This saves time, because you can shoot as fast as you'd hope.
People think the pause trick is lame, because it makes the battles easy. The boss can't do anything except take hit.
I'm now fighting Cutman in this game.
I've calculated:
With pause trick,
- You have to wait 5 frames to get closer to Cut Man, because if you throw
a brick too far, it won't hit twice (the brick has really weird bounding boxes).
- You are in the center of screen, so you'll have an optimal catch on the object that drops from ceiling.
Without pause trick:
- You have to wait for a few frames for the brick parts to fly out of view (before that, you can't pick another brick). It's ok, it happens while Cutman is blinking.
- When you pick the brick and immediately throw it, Cutman stops blinking. You will waste 8 frames, because Cutman is vulnerable for 8 frames and not being hit.
- After Cutman destructs, you are not in the center of screen - you have to walk. You'll lose about 5 frames more when compared to the optimal catch.
What do you think? Should I use the pause trick here or not?
I'll describe the pause trick savings for other bosses too.
Gutsman:
- Gutsman blinks very briefly, and you can only have three shots flying at time. You have to use pause trick, or you'll lose _many_ frames just waiting to be allowed to shoot.
Elecman:
- Elecman is killed by hitting with a brick 7 times. There are two bricks (practically infinite, because you can take the second one as many times you want) but Elecman blinks faster than Cutman and you'll end up waiting _a lot_ for the flying brick pieces. Also, the electricity created by Elecman makes the game lag a bit.
Iceman:
- Iceman is killed with electricity. Electricity travels slowly and Iceman blinks fast. Electricity also makes the game lag. Thus, you'll waste a lot of time waiting to be allowed to shoot, if you don't use the pause trick.
Fireman:
- Fireman is killed with Ice. Same problem as in Iceman - Ice travels slowly and you can't shoot while an Ice block is on screen. But Fireman takes also more hits to die. You'd waste a lot of time if you didn't use the pause trick.
Bombman:
- Bombman is killed with fire. You don't need to be shooting a lot, because you have the fire shield. However, Bombman jumps high, so you can't always reach him. While he's unreachable, you can't hit him, which means you're wasting time again, if you don't use the pause trick.
Yellow devil (the statue monster):
- The eye opens and closes very quickly and electricity is slow. It would take 6 times longer to kill him without the pause trick.
I have not yet played much further than that.
[Edit: edited some wordings]
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Absolutely use the pause trick. I don't think people realize how much time and weapon energy it saves.
If someone wants to time attack Mega Man without using this glitch, they can try it. But if they shun this glitch then they shouldn't abuse any glitches at all.
Um...have you tried using the cutters on Elecman? Kills him in only 3 hits, and you don't have to deal with the delay from grabbing the blocks or the lag from his beam. Just run up and fire away...
Sure, use the pause trick. You're already making MAD good time with those magnet beam ceiling warps...might as well throw in all the better-known tricks. ^_^
Cutters need Cutman killed, and Elecman is on the list before Cutman for a good reason.
Using cutters at Elecman, you can save one pause. You have to use pause *once* because the cutters travel slowly. When you have made two hits, you can relax and wait until the cutter, returning to Megaman, hits Elecman again, completing the third hit.
You're already making MAD good time with those magnet beam ceiling warps...might as well throw in all the better-known tricks. ^_^
I'm thinking that I eventually collect and write a list of all tricks used in this movie. There are plenty.
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Given the route you have chosen, Iceman is only quick fight, as he dies in three hits. Cutman takes two hits, but that's from those blocks which are slow to use. Every one else will take five hits or more, and Bombman jumps around a lot.
How many hits does the Clone take? I bet at least six.
EDIT: Not to pressure you or anything, but how is this time attack coming?
EDIT 2: He's not called the "Rock Monster," although that is a common nickname.
The first boss of Dr. Wily's stage is known as the "Rock Monster."
Boco will disagree strongly.
feitclub wrote:
Not to pressure you or anything, but how is this time attack coming?
Slowly.
When I'm fully concentrating on the game, I can complete one level per day, but I can't / don't want to do it every day. Also, I've redone most of the levels a couple of times, because I've found mistakes or discovered new techniques.
My first attempt was almost a duplicate of Morimoto's movie, until I found the screen-top trick by accident in the Bomb Man level.
The second try was restarted from beginning when I was informed that the magnet trick works at every ceiling, not just screen top.
The third try was reverted to the Cutman level when I learned some more things. I'm still fighting Cutman.
I'm playing mostly at 5% speed (boring sequences at 20% speed), and as you might imagine, it's pretty slow. And I'm doing things over many times.
I still haven't planned the Dr. Wily levels very well. The big problem is how to manage the energy of the magnet beam. There are some killable robots in the beginning of the 2nd level, but they seem very reluctant on giving anything else but those useless little balls.
How many hits does the Clone take? I bet at least six.
Looks like 15 hits from the Elecman weapon.
[Edit: Just completed the redone Cutman level. I'm now 2 seconds faster than in the "pending" version some of you have saw.]
I'm thinking that I eventually collect and write a list of all tricks used in this movie. There are plenty.
Faster done than planned.
In addition to some of the basic techniques listed at the common tricks page (such as randomness abuse), here are many of the tricks I have discovered/heard and used in the Rockman movie.
EDIT: Moved all content to the dedicated Rockman tricks page.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
For the record, 'the Clone' is named Copy Robot.
Is it mentioned in one of the games he appears?
He goes by a few different names in the various games. I know for a fact he went by the name Dark Moon in MMV.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Dark Moon is the Devil-style enemy in Rockman World 5. As far as I know, he's the only Devil that's not called Devil.
Copy Robot is also called Copy Rock in some things (like the manga), but his official name is Copy Robot.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster.
I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Heh, I always figured that when people were referring to the 'Rock Monster' they were talking about the clone, rather than the Yellow Devil. Kinda makes sense if you think about it.
Capcom seems to like re-using that boss a lot. How many Devils are there now? Like, 5? :p
Bisqwit wrote:
and Elecman is on the list before Cutman for a good reason.
Yeah, which I remembered once I watched the video again. When I asked that question, something in the back of my mind told me I'd already seen/figured out the answer, but I couldn't remember what... :)
Ah ha. Having gotten nowhere in the MMZero series, I've never seen that. :) I'm surprised there hasn't been a Devil in the Battle Network series...
But we digress. I'm looking forward to an even faster video for this game than before. Morimoto's video looked perfect, but I guess as we've seen with SMB1, "perfect" doesn't mean "unbeatable" when it comes to time attacks and speed runs.
i haven't seen this one before just encountered this while playing mega man (europe) on my console...
fireman stage: wish i had a place that could host a picture cus i don't know how to explain in a good way but i'll try. one room which you enter from the top right corner from a ladder, and one block free space to the left of the ladder (you have to move to the left in the room). there is 2 "fire popups" one i places directly under the ladder the other one is placed on the block before a "hole" that you can stand in the bottom of without falling through. from the same whole it flies up a couple of fire children as soon as you enter the room... you should understand where now...
if i remember it right i got hit by the second "fire popup" and got into the "whole" while i was stil beeing all whacky from the damage taken. then when i got normal again i just went through the floor. i was pressing left as well while i got normal to get all the fact i can (same kind of glitch as in bouble man stage in rockman 2 when using the pause button just before the metal fish) back to megaman 1, which placed me just after the first ladder in the room "under" the one i described recently...
my english suck so sorry for the bad explenation, but wanted t share it since i've never seen it before...
Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom
Personally, I'd rather see one without the pause trick. It makes for a much more interesting movie, and doesn't make the bosses boring. Oh, and before you tell me to do it, the only boss I can defeat is Bombman with the Rock (Mega) Buster. Personally, I'm better at Network Transmittion (I can get to the second boss easily, and that's it).
