I did a bit of testing, and was able to figure out how to skip the first Juggernaut fight. here is the gmv file
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4712/juggernautskip.gmv
I wont be working on this run seriously until the next gens comes out, where recording with a reset is possible without losing all the data recorded before the reset sequence.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Nice :)
Much much better than taking damage until ¼ left. I hate to have to pause though but if it is the way, what can i say?
Now for the reset... Is there other games with the same type of crap? Couldn't we just combine two runs in one?
That is a good question... I think we would have to go to Bisqwit for that one. Would using a splice to create one movie file be legit, or would there be too much possibility of cheating in some way, shape or form to be even considered for publishing? I think after homework is finish I will be whoring myself out the the website's faq, and, possibly, kissing Bisqwit's a... I mean, asking Bisqwit if it could be legit.
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
That is a good question... I think we would have to go to Bisqwit for that one. Would using a splice to create one movie file be legit, or would there be too much possibility of cheating in some way, shape or form to be even considered for publishing? I think after homework is finish I will be whoring myself out the the website's faq, and, possibly, kissing Bisqwit's a... I mean, asking Bisqwit if it could be legit.
Just so you know, hitting "hard reset" won't allow you to complete the game. Therefore, neither will starting a second gmv and saying "record from start". Manually resetting the 68000 and the z80 might, but you'd still have to start the second movie from a savestate, which is definitely not accepted.
It seems like you're going to have to wait for the next version of gens movie, and unfortunately progress on that is a bit stalled at the moment due to real life issues.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
The reset 68000 don't stop the movie, give a signal to reset.
Ex You jump 3 times and at the third jump, reset.
Or, Use Iceman bridge in the air and when his bridge is totally dissapeared Reset. (like a loading bar)...
Skychase, I have no idea what you are talking about. Try using complete sentences while elaborating your ideas next time.
EDIT: Sorry, skychase, nothing personal. Just had a crappy day, thus I am crabby.
Upthorn, thank you for your insight. As the man said, there is no way to do it, thus i do believe this X-men run is officially on hold. >_<
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
you can also use that to get to deathbird earlier and to bypass juggernaut and head straight to the far right elevator in excalibur lighthouse. dunno if thats been mentioned or not.
Very cool find Stickyman! I found out that Juggernaut can be skipped with the teleport without using Iceman and wasting time. So now we know the exact points where we need to use it (in the first level). The first wall, Juggs and the end door.
I also cant wait to start TASing this for real!
Edit: The trick for Jugg is simple. You have to be high in the trees and teleport going upwards.
I don't know if this speedrun is ever gonna get done, but maybe you guys should consider making two variants: One with boss shortcuts and one without.
I've noticed that you guys are coming up with lots of ways to bypass bosses, but you have to remember that this is an X-Men game. I dunno about you, but when i was a kid the coolest thing about this game was all of the characters making appearances. It would kinda suck to skip past Juggernaut, Sabretooth, etc.
Also i realize that the Assist characters do a lot of damage but they looked cool too. So maybe it would be a good idea to do one speedrun strictly for fastest completion time and another "all bosses defeated" speedrun where you also show all of the backup characters like Archangel, Storm, etc.
Just an idea. Feel free to ignore it.
http://sonichurricane.com
Tuesday = new technical/combo video/article | Thursday = new screenshot | Saturday = new strategy article
I don't know if this speedrun is ever gonna get done, but maybe you guys should consider making two variants: One with boss shortcuts and one without.
I've noticed that you guys are coming up with lots of ways to bypass bosses, but you have to remember that this is an X-Men game. I dunno about you, but when i was a kid the coolest thing about this game was all of the characters making appearances. It would kinda suck to skip past Juggernaut, Sabretooth, etc.
Also i realize that the Assist characters do a lot of damage but they looked cool too. So maybe it would be a good idea to do one speedrun strictly for fastest completion time and another "all bosses defeated" speedrun where you also show all of the backup characters like Archangel, Storm, etc.
Just an idea. Feel free to ignore it.
I agree, it would be nice to show all the sub-bosses in the game. However, I believe the best way to go about a speedrun would be to skip the sub-bosses. BUT, if the skipping bosses works out well and gets accepted, I think that a second run should be made, where defeating all bosses is a necessity (kind of like a 100% boss run, i suppose). I dont know what 'mad thinks, but I think first priority is a fastest completion, and second priority (after the first priority is [hopefully] accepted) is to make a longer, no boss skip run.
skychase wrote:
Is it possible to hack the x-men rom (for the reset problem) and put the tas in "Concept demos/Other" section ?
I am no 1337 h4x0r, and as far as I know there are no hacks to make the reset without hitting the actual reset button. If you are able to confirm one is out there, or wish to make one yourself ( ;) ) then I definitely talk to 'mad and Bisqwit about the idea!
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
I tried something... when i had to reset at the end of mojo world, i called iceman... do slow mode and when the ice bridge is totally disapeared, do "reset 68000".
then you can remove slow mode
If it work, i'm suposed to die few minutes later because i fell of a moving platform...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/962226147/x-men.gmv
I tried something... when i had to reset at the end of mojo world, i called iceman... do slow mode and when the ice bridge is totally disapeared, do "reset 68000".
then you can remove slow mode
If it work, i'm suposed to die few minutes later because i fell of a moving platform...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/962226147/x-men.gmv
*sigh* nope, it didnt work :[ great idea and great attempt to make this tas work, though, skychase!
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Hey, I'm really interested in this run, is there a "best" WIP with all best known strategies up until "mojo's reset the computer"? And what about a WIP for after mojo?
Does gens have reset recording yet?
I was thinking you could do the soft reset command, then on the next frame save state, then record a new run from that state, then hex edit the two recordings together and it should play back as one recording all in snyc :)
Or maybe there's a problem with that?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Well, there isn't a "best WIP" at all, 'mad put his work on hold for this game and I followed suite.
I believe that gens10 supports re-record after reset, as upthorn was talking about adding it to the new release.
Although I would love to work on this, my job is raping my free time right now. Luckily, there is only 2 weeks left before school starts and I will not have to work 40 hours a week ^_^
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Sounds great! I think there's more tricks and glitches to be found. Teleport/icebridge inside walls/zipping anyone? Did anyone work on the levels after mojo?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Here's stages 1,2,3, and 5 by honorableJay at SDA
http://files.filefront.com/X+Men+genesis+WIPavi/;11540006;/fileinfo.html
I think he's doing his run on hero which I like because of the increase in teleports over super-hero.
I like the macro strategies used, don't know if there's any route variation that's faster. I think a major thing that needs to be planned is nightcrawler's energy usage and refills, where are all the energy refills?
I was thinking for stage 1 it might be faster to skip juggs with a long teleport(tp) + air-attack(aa), then maybe skip the dino ride with a icebridge(ib) + tp + aa.
I was thinking there might be some glitches with simultaneous attacks, like was such with castlevania and other games, like getting hit the same time dealing a hit thus allowing for a double hit, or maybe more likely, dealing a hit with say wolverrine at the same time as rouge and having both register.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I found you can make it across the last water fall with room to spare by doing a high-jump (hj) + tp + aa off of the little platform in the top right. I was also able to get a tp where I went far to the right and then up at the end.
For a TAS if you wanted to save energy you can just hj + aa, land on an elevator, hj + aa to another elevator, and then one more j + aa easily clears it with no slow down.
Another trick for a TAS is to have storm destroy the final wall.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I found some new tricks:
For the 3rd level, haunted house, you can tp up to the juggernaut floor, then as cyclops do a hj, switch to nightcrawler(nc) and tp up the top floor, this skips the elevator and saves a lot of time. Then you can beat apoc using nc and your assist x-men.
You can use an ib placed up high by a barrier, jump on it, then jump through the wall over the barrier. Works on the first and last barriers on the 4th level, probably more spots too, it basically lets you jump through a ceiling.
4th level strategy I used was staying on the top the whole time: tp past first barrier, when you get to the iceman powerup jump and do a long tp + aa to get to the other side and grab the energy refill. Repeat long tp skip every time you get to a wall up top.
Long tp skip works on sabertooth as well.
On the second level I found you can get a energy refill by the gate to the ship, down one level, there's 3 things in a row on the wall you can destroy, one always drops a refill, once I got energy.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
well the reason I use the elevator on the 3rd level is I use my character switching for the Apoc fight, that's how I take him down in only 4 hits. Since I don't care about Wolverine until maybe the last level of the game (which he'll get full health anyway) I have him take 2 cheap shots from Apoc, then switch back to Nightcrawler. I use one tp hit, then take a cheap shot and finish him with Rogue.
If I use nightcrawler the whole time I chance messing up using the support characters. Since I'm doing this for real and not focusing on a TAS run, I don't have the option of slowdown, but I'm pretty sure if you go into a tp state a frame before Apoc punches then immediately let go of the A button, you should be able to not get hit and also not hit him, which will make the support characters more viable. I'll have to test this in real time and see if it's a viable strat.
The other problem is I don't want to waste too much mutant energy.
Ya, that elevator strat seems reasonable for non-TA, using assists on apoc is hard without getting hit, and the cyclops hj to nc + tp trick isn't so easy.
I think if you don't have wolv's claws out when apoc hits you you'll take less damage and could get have wolv take 3 hits, saving nc some health, you'd want nc to start level 4 with full health.
What do you think of my 4th level strat? I wouldn't use ib skip on first barrier (b1), you'll take damage around there, so tp b1 seems a must, fast, easy, safe, then b2 can't be ib skipped, so tp from top lets you grab the energy refill, it a simple and fast strat, just have to worry about those rockets and acid puddles, can do non-moving tp to avoid rockets. There's just 3 barriers right? Not sure about strat for b2 to last barrier. Then the last barrier can be skipped with a ib, simple, safe, easy. Then for that horizontal zapper at the end, you can grab the refill and get hit by alien and then aa through it while still under temp-invincibility. What was your strat for the boss fight, wolv plus assists?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Yeah that cyclops jump then tp skip on lvl 3 has to be frame precise. Every time I did it, even with slowdown, I'd wind up getting just a hair under the floor an drop back down. On top of that you have to remember that the more energy I waste with tp's the more orbs I gotta smash to recharge between levels, and that takes a lot of time.
As for the 4th level, I have a decent path going now and can avoid most damage. Basically I stick to the mid/low paths until I pass the barriers, then right after the full energy pickup (blue X, which at this point I don't need) I take the platforms to the top level. From there it's easy to spam the air attack until I cross the chasm.
Once I pass the chasm I gotta be easy with the spam jumping due to the stupid vats you can break open. The first barrier in this area I tp through the wall above it, grab the health, get hit by the enemy, then pass through the last barrier.
As for Ahab, I found the easiest way (which is probably the fastest) is to use storm as soon as you see him, dodge his first blast, use Archangel next, then a final tp hit to finish him off. Rogue does roughly the same amount of damage against him as the others, but she doesn't always hit him and takes a while just to fly in, so Arch gets the pick there for backup. Wolverine doesn't deal enough damage to be viable here. If there was a way to hit him twice at the same time then he'd definately get some use but it doesn't look that way.
The more an more I play these levels the more I'm starting to find out that NOT using a tp in every place possible seems to be the best option. One of the first things I did on the 4th level was to take the high route the entire time, but I kept running out of energy by the second wall and didn't have enough for the skips at the end of the level. The other problem I found with the high road are those stupid planes that come after you. It takes time to kill them all as soon as they come out of their portal, and it wastes just enough energy to make the longer tp's impossible.
Btw, I haven't had a chance to test yet, but how does U+D/L+R affect the game? You think it could have some weird results with teleporting?
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