I haven't watched yet; does this WIP include a revised Zio 1 fight?
EDIT: I just read the topic about there being somewhat of a push for commentaries. I would love to do Phantasy Star IV commentary if that's not something you want to do yourself, janus.
mmm... can commentaries (for the introduction on the movie page) can be made by someone else than the original author? If so, PM me for your suggestions. I really don't know what else to say :p
back in the subject : yes, my run includes the whole revision from the escape from zio 1.
I beat DF III, but without sgnificiant improvment (23 frames!) any suggestions?
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Is the new run the same strategy as the old?
In an earlier version of the DF3 fight, you Shift Chaz but not Rika. Her Doubleslash can gain 50 damage from the Shift if manipulated well, so in a long battle she'll do more damage. This probably applies to earlier fights, too, but I'm sure you already looked into it at some point.
There's an off-chance that Deban and some manipulation could allow Wren to survive two sword attacks without a Recover, but that's untested.
Can't really think of anything, otherwise.
I forget, does Rune have Nafoi by that point? If not, you could fight an encounter or two at the Vahal Fort to get it for him.
He wouldn't have Nafoi. The way the Demi run went, he got it at Sa-Lews, basically the second last fight in the run.
If we've discussed it I forget the result, but can you get into fights in Vahal Fort without starting Silver Solider? Because if not, this involves (1) going to Aiedo, which hasn't even been entered for use with Ryuka, (2) talking to the Hunter lady and signing up for the quest, (3) going to Zema and talking to a guy, (4) a fight, (5) travel to Vahal Fort, where the closest town is Monsen, which hasn't even been entered for use with Ryuka, (6) cutscene at the entrance, (7) fights to level as necessary, (8) probably some healing afterwards... but if you can just fight in the little entrance area then it could be worth considering. I still doubt it would save time given that there are only two fights until Sa-Lews, and how long it would take to get to Vahal Fort.
Maybe even a Sand Worm encounter or two would be enough to get him Nafoi; are they vulnerable to Diem? I've never tried it on account of never encountering any in my most recent playthrough (aside from The Ranch Owner at which point Rune didn't have Diem) and also not being able to get Infantworms or Mini Worms (I don't remember which does it) to turn into one.
Wow, I like the new WIP. Lashiec looks awesome the way it is now, even though the savings aren't huge (faster by 464 frames by my count) it seems like there are many fewer turns of healing and just generally looks better. I think it was worth the work you put into it.
DF3 is great too. Totally new approach with Shadow/Mindblast instead of Shadow/Attack. Seems like it works out - Rika acts less, but Wren doesn't have to heal, and thus many few actions are animated altogether. Good stuff.
I updated my spreadsheet from before using the new run. In case you were wondering I used the first full-white screen frame before each fight as the "start" frame and the first full-black screen frame after each fight as the "end" frame. These seemed like the most reliable frames of reference.
By my count you're currently 3226 frames ahead of your endgame Demi run and a huge 22788 frames (~6:20) ahead of the published run.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 632
Location: Seattle, WA
Interesting that, against Le-Vars, you use Saner on the group but never Shift on Chaz. If all you're doing is manipulating him to do a direct attack to Rune for low damage then the Saner doesn't seem to be useful. It'd be better for Le-Vars to be faster than the group for the last turn of battle when it's time to kill Chaz. Oh and Wren I see, good idea for helping Rune gain his Techs.
The PD fight looks good, but seems improvable. Chaz is on defense a lot, which wastes some turns. Maybe Shift + Attack would save some time. Doing Ataraxia on the same turn as Tsu afterwards means the Tsu will still happen if it's a macro. And there were many times where Rika did an attack instead of a 2xSlash, maybe manual programming two rounds to do the skill would save time. OH and earlier in the fight, you have Wren take a hit from the second form and then have Raja do Miracle, and then again the next turn, and then the next turn, Rika survives a hit. If you have Wren and Rika each survive a hit and then do a Miracle to heal both of them, the alternate turn he can do the Mahlaydagger. I'll see if I can come up with other ideas later.
Interesting that, against Le-Vars, you use Saner on the group but never Shift on Chaz. If all you're doing is manipulating him to do a direct attack to Rune for low damage then the Saner doesn't seem to be useful.
in fact, it is. rune is slower than de-vars. getting his defendeing BEFORE de-vars attacks requires too much manipulation. plus, when he does defend, chaz misses.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/28468208/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
PD3 explodes 215 frames earlier, but it's still slower than with Demi. This time, raja doesn't use all his miracles, and he's too slow to use them agaisnt PD 3. using shift on chaz did help, thouhg. other suggestions?
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1819476378/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
unless someone has a revolutionnary idea, this would be my final publication. The Demi run is much faster
1) I need less macros
2) I don't need the mahlay dagger
3) resurecting people against PD3 is much faster
in fact, it's about 3k frames faster than the previous Demi test. in all, it's 26k frames faster that the first run.
Looks great. Only thing I saw is that ryuka to silence tm after the top tower and then hydrofoil to the bottom tower would likely save some frames as opposed to the hydrofoil all the way method.
I love that Chaz dealt the final blow to PD :)
Here's a new comparison spreadsheet.
You'll see this one is about ~300 frames behind the Raja one for a while in the middle of the run, because of items that are picked up. It does finish faster than the Raja run but the difference isn't significant until right at the end.
I don't see any issues, janus. Good work.
I have to admit : I never tried the Zio fight without the wave shot. I just have, and it's vital to the fight. The stun shot can do at most (and that's pushing luck to its limit) 30-35 damage to zio.
However, I noticed that healing Rune was useless, which made me save 130 frames
Also...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1351041857/Phantasy%20Star%20IV%20%284%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
I was able to save a total of 575 frames after the Zio fight. Gryz was useless against Juza, and I didn't need magic protection against gy-laguish
