I knew it was a good idea to stop by. This should help you. It's a VBM file of what may be the fastest route of Ocean Base 1 (I didn't find the strategy. Some guy named Peter did. I only recorded this.) uploaded via MegaUpload. There's also an .avi of it, but it's 5 MB or so, so this is quicker. Though as you can tell, it's improvable. It wasn't tool-assisted in any way, and I made a mistake from the second moving platform up to the final tag actions. Take note at the first moving platform I immediately land the moment I soar up to the top of it (while I messed up on doing that on part 2). Then I jump off very soon after. It's a pretty kooky part. Anyhow, you can experiment from there.
Thanks. That and Ocean Base 2 were the only levels I couldn't find any videos of. It takes longer to find a route from scratch in these levels.
By the way, I wonder if there are any other levels that K+A can destroy besides 2-3 and 7-3? I got these times (TASing):
K+A on Chaos Angel 3: 0'34''45
K+A on Sunset Hill 3: 0'36''65
Whoa. Those are some fast times. I assume TAS walldashing can be done a lot more efficiently? Or is it something else? And unfortunately, K+A is mostly for levels where vertical wall movement beats boost mode and/or horizontal movement. But feel free to experiment if need be.
As for Ocean Base 2, that's quite a bit more frustrating to do in real time (Hence why I've saved it for later), and I don't have the patience to TAS it. Any chance you can pull up a map? I can just mark the path that way.
But still, good work here. Quite a few things I wouldn't even think of.
Whoa. Once again, impressive runs.
Also:
[URL=http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oceanbase2pathce4.gif][/URL]
The plotted path. The arrows point at around where you land (it's not extremely accurate, but in the general area), while the circles are where the tag action is used (All high jumps). Also, during the cannon ascent (Not that you use the cannons) are red arrows I'll call damage arrows. You hit the enemy just right (when you launch toward a higher cannon platform, hold away from the higher area to get hit and go toward the cannon platform) for a quick landing. I think it's just slightly faster than high-jumping to the spring then getting hit.
New WIP. Don't continue with a savestate because most of the first levels have changed.
Route 99 1 - 0:28:97 (T+S)
Route 99 2 - 0:39:42 (T+S)
Route 99 3 - 0:39:70 (T+S)
Route 99 Boss - 0:57:33 (T+S)
Sunset Hill 3 - 0:44:12 (S+T) - unlocks Knuckles because Sonic is in front
Sunset Hill 1 - 0:25:47 (T+S)
Sunset Hill 2 - 0:24:20 (T+S)
Sunset Hill Boss - 0:34:72 (T+S)
Ocean Base 3 - 0:39:43 (T+S)
Ocean Base 1 - 0:34:68 (S+T)
Ocean Base 2 - 0:56:95 (S+T)
Ocean Base Boss - 0:39:13 (S+K)
Toy Kingdom 3 - 0:55:13 (S+T) - unlocks Amy because Sonic is in front
Toy Kingdom 1 - 0:27:38 (T+S)
Toy Kingdom 2 - 0:34:68 (T+S)
Toy Kingdom Boss - 1:23:72 (T+S)
Route 99 3 and Sunset Hill 2 were absolutely brilliant, Nitsuja.
I also have a question regarding partners: do they affect the main character in any way except for "summoning" (or however pressing R is called there)?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Route 99 3 and Sunset Hill 2 were absolutely brilliant, Nitsuja.
I think those and Sunset Hill 1 were the only levels I didn't change from before.
moozooh wrote:
I also have a question regarding partners: do they affect the main character in any way except for "summoning" (or however pressing R is called there)?
Yes, in many ways. Simply having a different partner greatly changes the main character's basic capabilities. For example, that upward attack I use on the Ocean Base boss can only be done when Knuckles is the partner, even though I didn't use his tag action anywhere in the battle. Each of the 20 combinations is unique, I won't list them but you can read almost any Sonic Advance 3 guide on GameFAQS for that.
Also, just catching any partner (not using the tag action) causes these changes:
hitting ceilings earlier in jumps because of increased height (sometimes useful)
falling through rails (sometimes useful)
being more vulnerable to attack because the spin attack of a jump is canceled
reduced max speed that jumping will accelerate the character to, if not already moving at that speed
losing boost mode and/or rolling status
freezing in place for 1/60 of a second to make the catch
Nobody's commented on something weird that happened in Toy Kingdom 3. Specifically, R-button tricking straight out of the first tag action, because the "can trick" flag doesn't get reset if you do a tag action fast enough after landing.
Quartz wrote:
Is there ANY rhyme or reason to the Toy Kingdom boss?
It becomes less likely to get a jack-in-the-box the more you hit him (it was impossible to get it the last two times). Besides that, the game decides on-the-fly in a very random way, such that even hitting it on the exact same frame can produce different results.
Perhaps someone can try an All-Chaos-Emeralds run now. Let's see, that would involve finding the best routes (and possibly new best combinations) to get all the Chao in the Acts in the quickest times possible and then getting one key from one Act for each Zone.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Come on! Is at least one run that collects all seven Chaos Emeralds and beats the true final boss too much to ask?! Where's Nitsuja when you need him/her?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
So a couple of guys during the TSC marathon... (Which is going on right now donate u scubs.) mentioned a faster team than the current TAS for CA3, (Tails and Amy) which is at the end of the run when all teams are unlocked for those not in the know.
I plan to do a test with my limited skills at some point this week, unless there is someone better than I (not hard), already in the know.
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rng1q0UT9I8&feature=plcp
check the linked guide for the tas beating claim.
edit2: Yes it is faster. I managed 31.75 seconds which is about 1.5 seconds faster than the current any% for this level, and no doubt my time can be improved.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/669475921/1490%20-%20Sonic%20Advance%203%20CA3%20Tails%20Amy.vbm
Link to video
Finally we get back to our minimum rings challenges. Although this time it's not gonna make a zero ring run, but we still hope it will be nonetheless enjoyable to watch. We also tried to make it as interesting as possible using different characters if it's not essential to use some particular powers.
Ocean Base Act 3 - 3 rings are located in the narrow path, which can be hypothetically avoided using Knuckles, but he can't avoid three rings in the beginning of the level.
Twinkle Snow Act 3 - 1 ring blocks a hole, the alternative path has three unavoidable rings in the way. So we choose the least of two evils.
Cyber Track Act 1 - 3 rings are placed in the way along the transporters.
Act 2 - 1 ring is in the narrow path.
Act 3 - 8 rings are collected because of the transporters.
Altar Emerald - the 3 rings are collected during a cutscene.
Total of 19 rings.
The goal was to create something interesting to watch, if you're looking for a pure speed optimization madness, this probably isn't your thing.
Interesting watch! I enjoy all the ridiculous acrobatics you have to do to avoid rings especially in loops and seeing all the different characters at work.
On a related note, seeing as how the Sonic Advance 3 TAS was made back in 2006, is there enough new tech that has been discovered to make an improvement, or is it too well optimized already?
Thanks!
As for new techs, I highly doubt it. The game is nicely programmed, so we only found one glitch to make Knuckles go through objects using Tails as his partner, but I don't see a way where it could be useful to obtain any extra speed.
Low ring runs do not really appeal to me (though the theory behind them are interesting) but I did enjoy this as it addressed the one problem I had with the any%; the showcasing of the many various team options the game has. So I appreciate the effort you put into that particular goal choice.
Zenon wrote:
if it's not essential to use some particular powers.
I would be interested in hearing which levels particular characters were essential. Cream/Knuckles seemed to be used (needed?) often?
And for a couple of nitpicks;
You missed an character change/overworld video edit from Twinkle Snow Boss to Chaotic Angel 1.
And more importantly, the any% misses 2 of those 3 rings on AlterEmerald. No idea if all 3 could have been skipped though.
Still, great job. Really glad to see Advance 3 getting some love.
Link to video
Real time CA3 in 31.75.
(Current TAS gets 33.53)
Edit,
Also this;
Link to video
If it counts? A in game timer stop glitch. As the game is tracked by in game time here to date.
So SB737 showed me this today - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gpzeugs6fM
I messed around on emulator but I haven't been able to replicate that glitch at all (trying Amy+Knux for now). It'd be great if someone more experienced could look into this, since it would easily make chaos angel 2 (and maybe a few other levels) much faster, especially if it works with Sonic+Knux.
I'm not sure how much horizontal speed is required to pull it off. It seems like you need to glide at the perfect subpixel such that knuckles doesn't land on the floor nor the rail landing box, while amy hits the boost pad at the same time?
Not mine but;
Link to video
Not super relevant, as a full game run can't have Amy at that point, but doesn't hurt to have it in the thread.
I always thought about if K+A would be faster for this stage. This makes me want to mess around with this for console IL purposes, potentially using a different team in an all-stages speed run...
Speaking of which, I sorta made a miscellaneous category called All Stages (approved on speedrun.com by werster/zeupar) - http://pastebin.com/cNGHh3uk
tl;dr starting with a completed file, beat every stage & boss in time trial mode (main game for altar emerald & nonaggression). IGT would be used. This would encourage more team diversity and not make swapping teams a factor in team selection. Granted, the current TAS sorta does this, but not all characters are unlocked at the start, so someone could try TASing this if they want to.
Though the TAS would probably end up using T+S for half the stages anyways...
Speaking of which, I sorta made a miscellaneous category called All Stages (approved on speedrun.com by werster/zeupar) - http://pastebin.com/cNGHh3uk
tl;dr starting with a completed file, beat every stage & boss in time trial mode (main game for altar emerald & nonaggression). IGT would be used. This would encourage more team diversity and not make swapping teams a factor in team selection. Granted, the current TAS sorta does this, but not all characters are unlocked at the start, so someone could try TASing this if they want to.
Though the TAS would probably end up using T+S for half the stages anyways...
Yeah, I'm aware of your All stages runs; enjoyed the few IL practice streams I saw you do. Nice to see the variation the game has to offer on display.
I don't think such a run would be accepted here though, as looking at wersters and your playlists, even with out the possibility of T+S still coming out on top when tools are involved, it would be far too similar to the current any%. Personally I'd still love to see all the levels TAS'd with their optimal teams of course; maybe such a thing could qualify for the vault? At the very least I'm glad some ILs are being posted here for reference.
Speaking of which I should probably also have posted the vbm link the author of that OB2 run gave. I'll edit it into my last post too.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1125205877/qwerty-sonicadvance3-oceanbase2-k%2Ba.vbm
One possible use of your, essentially NG+ run idea I believe could work is adding it on to the (hopefully) eventual good ending run. Works for the reasons you mention, and completely removes my concern from above, instead maximising the potential in variance from the Any%. (A minor point, but it would also remove having to do Alter Emerald twice, as IIRC Non Aggression doesn't trigger first time regardless of your emeralds.)
Just would need a verification file unlocking the full cast and beat the 'last' boss with out picking up any Chao on the way. (Sadly the current any% grabs a Chao somewhere, so that can't be used in full for it, but I guess a few zones are already done for grinding it out.)
Not exactly a practical thing to do for non assisted runners course. Still, hope you make that OB2 work for you kirby.
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The plotted path. The arrows point at around where you land (it's not extremely accurate, but in the general area), while the circles are where the tag action is used (All high jumps). Also, during the cannon ascent (Not that you use the cannons) are red arrows I'll call damage arrows. You hit the enemy just right (when you launch toward a higher cannon platform, hold away from the higher area to get hit and go toward the cannon platform) for a quick landing. I think it's just slightly faster than high-jumping to the spring then getting hit.
