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Posted: 1/27/2009 6:53 PM
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008 Innovative TAS of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
damn your right I got a new computer and lost track of my files, finding the movie will take a while this is in text version more of less, as you can read it is not a definitive plan (ie what special to use or how to get the exp for gastly to trigger L100, its wrong on the post): http://speeddemosarchive.com/forum/index.php/topic,8457.msg235192.html#msg235192 Too bad on the box using the party counter instead of the FF marker. About the poison, the poison doesn't crash the game, the 99s that are inserted at the status value byte at least. As you can tell since when you keep your party within its boundaries nothing happens. What I mean is that the FF marks the end of party, sure its gone, but the next FF then becomes the new end of party, the item list's "end of item list" is the next FF. My assumption is that for step poison your party has more than 6 slots now. In other words the algorithm for step poison doesn't use the party counter but just keeps going until it finds the end of party. It also means that after each step the game will check each pokemon in your party of more than 6 for poison status. The first ones have poison but also have a lot of life, but once you get out of your first 6 normal slots you start meddling with the pokedex and items regions first and then with other game data, if one of them is read as having a status of poison then their supposed hp would be reduced but since it is not actually hp and actually is something else that may or may not like being changed then the game crashes, in this case it allows one step but at the second it crashes, hanzou's allowed 10 I think. You can check this by doing the bad ZZAZZ with 6 pokemon then manually restoring the FF, except one byte after its original place (making your party have 7 pokemon). That way your party will be longer but it wont get out the pokedex region. If you can walk as much as you want then my assumption is correct (although it would also depend on your pokedex data so make sure it is safe when read as a pokemon). Just read your edit, cool, Im more interested on your interest of desciphering how this all works tho :P Specially if the info can allow to finish a run withot a special of 254, 254 requires an extra battle to raise evs.
Posted: 1/27/2009 9:32 PM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
Excellent assumption gia! I tried restoring FF, and I could glitch the inventory with special 252. First, I sharked the game to give me 7 pokemon, didn't crash, then 8, didn't crash, then I tried 9 and 10, didn't crash either. Then I thought about putting FF at the earliest possible non-gameshark spot, which is the first item in the bag, in other words, an empty inventory. However, I needed a pokeball to get out of the battle, so I deposited every item I had except one pokeball. Battle starts, I use the pokeball and get an empty inventory. I didn't even fly, when I entered Lavender's pokecenter I got a message " fainted" then after a few steps another " fainted" and after some more "REPEL's effect wore off", but my game didn't crash, so I could happily go to the PC and get 255 items. To test this, I used the only save state from my 252 run that I hadn't overwritten, I think it's the one where I tried growling ditto to see what happened. Don't know if this affected the results. Anyway, it shows that the glitch is possible. Having an empty inventory means I can't get 118 pokeballs from 'M like I did in my previous vid, but you can always glitch a missingno. on your way to ZZAZZ.
Posted: 1/27/2009 10:23 PM
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008 Innovative TAS of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
awesome, the only question left for ZZAZZ is what happens exactly that the data is loaded like that (99 99 blank etc) a bit boring since needs it debugging. For the record for speedplay as long as you get many items you can get the 76 from there, not all "items" crash the game when changed, and you can toss items to get the 76. For tas you can always use the trainer id for example, for non tas you can instead use your money counter and manip it by buying stuff (before zzazz).
Posted: 1/28/2009 10:50 AM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
I think that in order to understand ZZAZZ we must first understand Trainer-Fly in general. I haven't found yet a reasonable explanation to why the game loads the special stat and the attack modifier, or why it makes missable objects disappear. I have discovered that if you talk to people, read signs, etc. Instead of the usual menu pop-up you'll get text messages from the trainers that are on the route and fight them (sometimes more than once). I also tried dying with buttons disabled a long time ago. All I remember is that they are restored but the area continues glitched. About the corruption in ZZAZZ, I think it has something to do with the money you receive from a trainer fight, money is stored in decimals, not hex. Maybe the glitch makes the game go nuts when it forces it to load data it doesn't support.
Posted: 4/16/2009 1:28 PM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
Here's an unusual Green TAS. The TASer uses ZZAZZ (the Japanese equivalent) and uses various items, including a bicycle, an item that lets the user surf, and an item that lets the user walk through walls. Slower than Primo's Green TAS, but still interesting.
Posted: 8/16/2009 4:07 PM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
I haven't been around here much recently, so: Could someone explain to me the basics of the ZZAZZ glitch, and how it gets glitch items into your bag? All I know is that doing the Trainer/Fly glitch with a Special of 251-255 will overwrite most of your Pokemon with Level 153 Exploding Bulbasaurs and overwrite your name with a bunch of Z's, because "Z", Explosion, and Bulbasaur all have Hex 153.
Posted: 8/20/2009 1:01 AM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
Basically what you do in ZZAZZ is trainer-fly with 252,254 or 255 special, while avoiding having 2 or 5 pokemon in your party when you face the trainer. After throwing a Poke Ball to run from the trainer, you must go to the PC in the pokemon center (try changing the amount of items you're carrying if your game keeps crashing while you're walking). Now deposit a pokemon and draw it again. If you have an item with high hex on the first slot (or maybe, no items on inventory), the value will get shifted to the items counter byte, you'll have hundreds of items and will be able to access some useful memory addresses. To warp to the hall of fame, you need to get into a battle and switch the item of hex value $76 with the item at the 33rd slot (I don't remember well, but I think it's the 33rd :P) To get the $76 item, you can manipulate the thousands and hundreds digits of your money to read 76, manipulate your ID to have a $76 on the lower byte, or get an item quantity to 118 with a missingno. encounter. This glitch saves an enourmous amount of time in a run. I was doing a no-save-corruption TAS on Red, but stopped somewhere near Pewter. I just don't have time to do it T_T Anyway, if there's something you don't understand, I made a vid of a successful ZZAZZ expoilt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMIOENhe--M
Posted: 8/21/2009 2:43 AM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
So if I'm understanding this right, this glitch forces the value $76 into the location data, causing the game to warp the player to the Hall of Fame after the battle. A few questions: - Is it possible to save after this glitch and not corrupt save data? If you save through the Hall of Fame, does it corrupt data? - How can this glitch permanently get glitch items into your bag? (such as the NICKNAME? item that allows Walk thru walls, or the ????? Surfboard item)
Posted: 8/21/2009 4:38 AM
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008 Innovative TAS of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
If you save after visiting the pokemon box and depositing and withdrawing and all that there shouldnt be problems after you reset (so after HoF is fine). And you would have the glitched inventory to play with (and the glitched pokemon you'd probably release). That doesn't mean you can use the items as you wish for your inventory is glitched and will crash one way or another but you can learn how to deal with it. the surfboard is safe to use of course.
Posted: 8/21/2009 11:30 PM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
@gia: I know that Yellow can load a ZZAZZ'ed save, but I've never seen the game load one from Red/Blue, but maybe there is a way. @Zowayix: You can get glitched items by manipulating the bytes that are beyond the inventory or use the quantity digits of your items. For example, let's say you want a glitched item of hex $49 (I'm just guessing, I've no idea what item this is!). You could get 73 pokeballs ($49 in decimals) before doing the deposit trick. This way, when the bytes shift, you'll have the item. Alternatively, you could make your money read xx49xx (money is not converted to decimals), and you'll be able to access the item with the glitched inventory too.
Posted: 8/22/2009 6:55 PM
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Zowayix
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
Thanks p4wn3r! (And btw, item $49 is the Poke Flute. =P)
Posted: 10/10/2009 7:27 PM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
A new glitchless run appeared on nicovideo. http://de.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8473865 (sorry, I cannot provide log-in data. You only need to register - it's free) It's only about 10 minutes slower than our pkmn blue run. Is the ZZAZZ run still in the works? I'd be looking forward to it :)
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Posted: 10/10/2009 8:06 PM
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008 Innovative TAS of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
no one is working on a tas zzazz run afaik, thomaz was working on a yellow zzazz speedrun long ago, I think he stopped at the last step, which needs a lot of luck.
Posted: 10/10/2009 8:20 PM
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funnyhair
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
what is a zzazz? for that matter, has anyone worked on a 100% all pokemon run?
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Posted: 10/12/2009 9:57 PM
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Thomaz
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
It's not even that it requires a lot of luck, it's more that I don't really understand why the glitch isn't working for me eventhough I've tried a lot of different things. And having to get the right Kadabra every time I want to try out a different strat just takes so much time. I try to get a Kadabra once in a while when I feel like it. When I actually figure out what I have to do, it won't be long before I upload the run. Also, I happen to be working on Pokemon 100% as well (granted, very different from TAS) and current segment is annoying because I bought the exact amount of balls I need before I get the Master Ball so catching stuff at full health is aggrevating at the least. But I'll get it. =) Haven't uploaded my newest seg yet though.
Posted: 10/13/2009 12:35 AM
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gia
Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008 Innovative TAS of 2008 Lucky TAS of 2008
hmm i might have told you this already, or maybe not, but why dont you dump your save file, the device will cost you about 30$, if you give me the save I can check the required steps given your save. ie if your game crashes then you can solve it by having less items on you (if you check the posts above p4wn3r explained it). I did not understand what step fails given your post though. Kadabra is supposed to be required to get a Ditto, is that the step that fails or have you got it already? Hopefully that isn't wrong. You can skip kadabra by meeting any wild ditto that uses transform on your 254 special pkmn. Gameshark one if you must (turn it off before doing the glitch just in case though).
Posted: 10/13/2009 4:30 PM
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p4wn3r
Player (42)
Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany
Lucky TAS of 2011 Gameboy TAS of 2011
A while ago, I tried to do ZZAZZ on yellow following some steps of Thomaz's run. I ended up not being able to perform the glitch because of a " fainted" message that spawned an FF before the pokedex data, making it impossible to modify the inventory. I think this is his problem, but I don't know how to solve it.
Posted: 10/13/2009 5:20 PM
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illayaya
Skilled player (1108)
Joined: 4/11/2008
Posts: 159
Location: Anime land
NES TAS of 2013
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm8473865 You can see glitchless run without account. If you want to see part2,you change "sm" number.(part2 is sm8474181)
http://www.twitch.tv/0xwas_
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:31 PM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
was0x wrote:
http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm8473865
It looks like the main sources of improvement come from consistent application of 3 small timesavers - Keeping the main battler at low health to suppress cries, more efficient luck-manipulation than Tilus' run, and the use of the Japanese version of the game, which has faster-scrolling text. But keeping the main battler's health down also allows faint-warping out of the S.S. Anne, which is faster than walking out. Also, I'm surprised trading for a Farfetch'd turned out to be faster than catching a second pokemon as Cut slave. With that in mind, though, I did detect some minor improvements that could be made - most notably, doors were often entered slowly. Even optimizing every single doorway would probably only speed up this run by 5 seconds or less. Some questions: Is part 3 available somewhere? Who made this run? We should contact him and ask if he knows about the glitches used for Primo's 1:18 run, and whether he knows of any other useful time-saving tricks.
Posted: 10/21/2009 5:12 AM
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illayaya
Skilled player (1108)
Joined: 4/11/2008
Posts: 159
Location: Anime land
NES TAS of 2013
Is part 3 available somewhere?Who made this run? .
Part3 is sm8474614. And I made this run.
We should contact him and ask if he knows about the glitches used for Primo's 1:18 run, and whether he knows of any other useful time-saving tricks.
I know primo's glitch run,but I don't know other time-saver tricks now. I used all of time-sever trick I know in glitchless run. But in primo's run, he did better luck-manipulation in the battle. I used it in part3 only.(Simply, I didn't notice for a while.)
I'm surprised trading for a Farfetch'd turned out to be faster than catching a second pokemon as Cut slave.
I think treading Farfetch'd is still slower, catching Paras and Pedgey after S.S. Anne is better.
doors were often entered slowly. Even optimizing every single doorway would probably only speed up this run by 5 seconds or less.
I don't think there is better entering doors.Thanks inform me of it.
http://www.twitch.tv/0xwas_
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:32 AM
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Chamale
He/Him
Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
The best way to enter a door is to move towards it for at least 1 step before entering it. The same applies for staircases and teleporters. For example, the staircase at 0:42 in your third video was entered well. The teleporter at 3:25 was not - it would have been better if, after fighting the rival, you walked as far down as possible and then moved right to the teleporter. Considering this excellent TAS, would you want to beat Primo's Blue TAS? As well as the glitches his run used, there's also a trick to skip the first gym entirely. Keeping the main battler's health low would also improve the time, and using the Japanese version of the game would speed up the run a lot. However, you should probably use the English version, as most people here prefer understanding the text.
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:19 AM
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illayaya
Skilled player (1108)
Joined: 4/11/2008
Posts: 159
Location: Anime land
NES TAS of 2013
I want to do, but I don't understand glitches in US version at all. Glitches in US is different from these of Japanese. Japanese version can use glitches by select button, but US version can't.
http://www.twitch.tv/0xwas_
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:00 AM
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Chamale
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Player (182)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1355
Location: Canada
Oh, alright. But I think you should submit this Green version TAS to the site. By the way, what does "Detteiu" mean?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:58 AM
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illayaya
Skilled player (1108)
Joined: 4/11/2008
Posts: 159
Location: Anime land
NES TAS of 2013
I'll redo glitchless run in UE version if I submit it to here. Dettiu is from Yoshi Island. Yoshi's voice is heard like Detteiu.
http://www.twitch.tv/0xwas_
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:44 AM
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MUGG
Editor, Expert player (2329)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3933
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015 NES TAS of 2013 Gameboy TASer of 2011 Gameboy TASer of 2010
Using the Japanese version in a glitched run would be a bit arbitrary, in my opinion, as you can use some japan-only glitches that don't involve corrupting your savegame (via reset while saving), for example the Doko Kashira Door glitch or similar glitches that came up in the recent 20 minute run (but I'm not sure about that one). I don't see a problem if you use it in a glitchless run though. Just, for a glitched run, I'd like to see the US version being used.
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