Could we please stop using the term "time-attack" at last? A tool-assisted speedrun is not a time attack. Although they are somewhate related, they are nevertheless clearly different things. Just look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_attack for a definition of time attack.
Some games, specially racing games, have a "time attack mode" (also called a time trial). It's a feature the game itself supports and the game will count lowest times as records. It has absolutely nothing to do with tool-assistance. It's just a playing mode (usually supported by the game itself). Some people may perform time attacks on games which do not directly support it, but it's still just regular speedrunning, no tool-assistance.
The term "tool-assisted speedrun" is a standard term among speedrunners and means exactly what we are doing here. For example the Doom speedrunning community has an entire subgenre dedicated to tool-assisted demos. See eg. http://www.doomworld.com/tas/main.shtml
I don't know who started using the term "time attack", probably Morimoto himself, but it's wrong and misleading. We are not making time attacks, we are making tool-assisted speedruns. So please stop using that term.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I totally and wholeheartedly agree. The term "time attack" is used in the wrong context. In my opinion, we should just use the term "speedrun" for all runs through games focussed on fastest completion, optionally with certain goals (such as 100% kills or item collection), add the prefix "tool-assisted" to that when formally describing those runs made with an emulator, and INFORMALLY call the latter "superplays".
Many people have thought that because the wrong usage of the term was widespread in the beginning. However, it does not mean that. We should avoid further spreading it.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I also think we should change name of this site, its headline etc.. The site is no longer "nes-focused".
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3518
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Touche` :) Perhaps a bit more in the future.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
I like the name Nesvideos, even though it has gone incorrect. We could standardize wether to call it NESVideos or Nesvideos in print though, but it's not that important.
To add some more fuel to the flames:
Arc's homepage, http://home.comcast.net/~arcthelad/info.html has the completely opposite opinion; that Timeattack should be considered the correct definition and that Tool-assisted is a bad and non-descriptive term.
I admit that the term "tool-assisted speedrun" is long and tedious to write every single time and the acronym TAS is also cumbersome because it's difficult to write it in plural, so one is tempted to use a shorter form. And of course I can't dictate what other people can and cannot do. However, it would be nice if everyone would try to use the terms in a way that minimizes the possibility of misunderstandings.
When someone here says "I have been attempting to make a speedrun on game xyz" we naturally know what he is talking about, but a casual viewer who doesn't know what it is all about may get the wrong impression.
Naturally completely avoiding misunderstandings is impossible (where there is communication there will always be a big chance of miscommunication), but that doesn't mean we should not try to minimize the possibility...
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Just "time attacks"? This topic is about us not calling them that. :p
Speedrun = run through a game with the intent to complete a certain goal as fast as possible.
Tool-assisted speedrun = a speedrun which was created using one or more tools (e.g. an emulator, a turbo button, etc.)
Some other suggestions:
Aesthetic run = run which focusses on providing entertainment rather than speed (such as what Genisto is now doing with Super Mario Bros 3, or what Morimoto did with Gradius).
Junkrun = a tool-assisted speedrun which is not eligible for publishing for obvious reasons (such as a very sloppy superplay, a testing superplay for an RPG with an illegally translated ROM to be used as cheatsheet for the final version, or an unfinished or deprecated superplay, or a demonstration video to show off a glitch or technique).
Warp wrote:
When someone here says "I have been attempting to make a speedrun on game xyz" we naturally know what he is talking about, but a casual viewer who doesn't know what it is all about may get the wrong impression.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Vatchern wrote:
Alright then...From now on im putting TAS in my future movies... What would we call just time attacks? (NTA) Meaning Non-Tool-Assisted?
Time attacks are a bit different thing than speedruns.
Regular speedruns in this context are, AFAIK, usually called unassisted speedruns.
There is absolutely no need to call them "unassisted" formally, although it's possible to informally dub them so. The reason behind this is that tool-assisted speedruns are deviances from the norm rather than the standard. It's best to assume that speedruns were recorded without the use of tools when the term has no pre- or suffix.
To add some more fuel to the flames:
Arc's homepage, http://home.comcast.net/~arcthelad/info.html has the completely opposite opinion; that Timeattack should be considered the correct definition and that Tool-assisted is a bad and non-descriptive term.
He might not like the term, but he can't change the fact that it has been the standard term even before Morimoto published his first SMB3 video. He also can't change the fact that "time attack" means the same as "time trial" and is a standard playing mode in many games (and which has nothing to do with tool-assistance).
He is wrong saying that tool-assisted speedrunning has nothing to do with (unassisted) speedrunning. They both have the same goal, they both need same techniques (eg. planning routes, knowing game glitches and peculiarities, etc) and in both the end result is similar. The means to make them is different, though, and that's exactly what "tool-assisted" is telling: It's a speedrun which has been made by different means than normal unassisted runs. However, "time attack" not only means a different thing, but even if used with the meaning of TAS it's confusing and nondescriptive and doesn't tell what it is all about.
I don't think wikipedia is the most reliable source since anyone can edit it. I can change that entry to say the opposite.
The reason that people here switched to using the term TAS was not because the term time attack was confused with playing in time attack mode, but because a small number of console runners started complaining about disclaimers. As we've seen, speed is not always the point in these movies, so can we really say that Tool-assisted speedrun is a descriptive term either? Can we really say they have the same goal? Maybe we need more hyphens to solve the problem?
I don't think wikipedia is the most reliable source since anyone can edit it.
That's a weak argument. Wikipedia is a great source of information, and simply dismissing it because it's a public wiki is a decision based on assumptions which happen to be false.
Besides, it's not like you need Wikipedia to know what a time attack is.
Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire
Omega wrote:
I've never seen the term "speedrun" used for tool-assisted speedruns, though.
A few of the avi versions of tool-assisted runs have "speedrun" in the filename instead of the usual "timeattack," which is a bit confusing and misleading. :/
I don't see why something like "tool-assisted run" wouldn't work. It's still a little wordy, but only six letters longer than "time-attack. In my opinion, the "speed" is not especially necessary and also helps to differentiate slightly from traditional speedruns, which may help to reduce complaints. Plus, TAR makes an acceptably flexible acronym. :P
What I have used in the AVI is:
*speedrun* when it's a game that involves running (as in, fast version of walking)
*timeattack* when it's something else where time is the focus, or when I have forgot to type "speedrun".
*playaround* when it's anything else
Maybe I should write it as, megaman-tas-v6-bisqwit.avi?
How about toolassisted fooling-arounds then?
